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Is Scripture still inerrant according to theistic evolution?

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The Barbarian

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It is unfortunate that those who have invested so much time and energy into a scientific theory that is coming, as all science theories do, to an end become bitter. They inflate their egos in an attempt to compensate for undersized intellects and resort to ad hominems..
Do you think "undersized intellects" is an ad hominem?
The truth sometimes hurts those who have turned their backs to it.
So no? Seems to me that would qualify.
 
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The Barbarian

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One more regarding male and female:
Gender (I mean: male and female) debunks evolution. Evolution cannot and does not create in pairs. Where did sex begin?
It began as an optional function in prokaryotes, which don't sexually reproduce. It's called "conjugation." One bacterium approaches another, and they transfer plasmids (bits of DNA) by means of pili. So originally just for transfer of genes, not reproduction. That came later. Would you like to learn more about that?
By Evolution’s definition: Evolution requires millions of years for something to randomly evolve by chance processes.
No, that's your definition, because you didn't know what it is and just imagined something. Darwin discovered that it's not by chance.
If by chance, Evolution was to somehow create an egg producing female anatomy by random chance processes over millions of years, it cannot at the same moment of time and the same place randomly generate a male compatible counterpart to get to the next generation.
See above. Your imagination led you completely astray. If you're honestly interested, let me know,and we can discuss it.
 
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The Barbarian

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Do you think "undersized intellects" is an ad hominem?
The truth sometimes hurts those who have turned their backs to it.

"Undersized intellects" can be identified by those who use leading and loaded questions or statements rather than open and honest ones.

Examples: When exactly did you stop caring about truth and become politically protective of evo theory? When debating, why do you constantly put your super-sized ego in front of your headlights? I trust that answers your question.
Honestly, I think it harms one's credibility when one writes about becoming "politically protective of evo theory." If you were calmer and less aggressive, I think you'd be more credible. I'm guessing you consider my question about which of the four points of Darwinian theory have been refuted, to be a "loaded question." But I don't see how it is. It's a legitimate question of anyone who says that the theory has been discredited. So far, in this discussion, no one has been able to answer, even after I made sure that everyone knows what the points are.
 
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o_mlly

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I think it harms one's credibility when one writes about becoming "politically protective of evo theory."
Yes, one's credibility as an honest debater always comes into question if they repeat falsehoods that are "politically protective of evo theory."

Here's one from one who lurches at convenient untruths:
The Wedge Strategy that @The Barbarian quoted from was written in 1998, almost 3 decades ago! Their goals were to have ID be widely accepted in science and research into ID being done by 2003 and see ID become the dominant paradigm in science by 2018.
And another from his primary source:
The Wedge Document shows that it's a religious doctrine.
Honesty? Dishonest Darwinists who intentionally prefer to misconstrue that document to be other than what it actually is:

Darwinian activists and self-identified “secular humanists” claimed that the “Wedge
Document” provided evidence of a great conspiracy by fundamentalists to establish
theocracy in America and to impose religious orthodoxy upon the practice of science.
...
As it happens, many of these [Center for Science and Culture] fellows think
that new discoveries in science either
support, or are consonant with, a “broadly theistic” world-view. The “Wedge
Document” makes the philosophical significance of our work—its challenge to
scientific materialism and its favorable implications for theism—known to potential
supporters. ...
Even so, the case that our scientists have made against neo-Darwinism or
for design is based on scientific evidence. Scientists of various (and no) religious
persuasions have formulated such arguments. ...
Nor have we been able see how any fair-minded
person who had actually read the “Wedge Document,” or who had any acquaintance
with our actual work, could attribute to us the nefarious views and motives that
Professor Forrest and others have assigned us. The “Wedge Document” articulates a
plan for reasoned persuasion, not political control. ....
Have you corrected your erroneous and slanderous citation regarding Philip Johnson (RIP) yet on the other thread? An honest person would do so.
 
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The Barbarian

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Yes, one's credibility as an honest debater always comes into question if they repeat falsehoods that are "politically protective of evo theory."

Here's one from one who lurches at convenient untruths:
The Wedge Document shows that it's a religious doctrine. One of the self-proclaimed "governing goals" of ID:
"To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God"

No point in denying what they admit among themselves when they think no one is listening. The damage control by the Discovery Institute, after they realized that they had inadvertently released religious assumptions they thought would be kept private, does not erase the fact that ID's goal is to advance their religious beliefs.

Honesty? Dishonest Darwinists who intentionally prefer to misconstrue that document to be other than what it actually is:
I just quoted what they said. If you think that's misconstruing, then perhaps that should be a wake-up call for you.

Have you corrected your erroneous and slanderous citation regarding Philip Johnson (RIP) yet on the other thread?
Even if it was untrue, even if it was untrue and I knew it to be untrue, Johnson, being a lawyer, would correct you. It could not be slander.
 
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o_mlly

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Even if it was untrue, even if it was untrue and I knew it to be untrue, Johnson, being a lawyer, would correct you. It could not be slander.
Oh dear, now a resort to pure sophistry. Why don't you just do the right thing, as an honest man would, and correct your post?

What you posted is untrue, and the context of your citing the untruth, shows your clear intention was to defame Johnson. That is slander.

Real scientists follow the evidence without fear or favor. Why don't you give that a try?

Your posts irrationally favor the current failing neo-Darwinisn portraying it as if it were fact instead of what it really is, only provisional. And you irrationally fear any other scientific effort to replace neo-Darwinism labeling those scientists as quacks or relgious fanatics. Are you threatened by their new ideas? You seem very emotional about all this, are you?

Since our fearless interlocutor has not offered any other "bigger fish to fry" and, like you, he/she unscientiffcially does not want to be "badgered" with any new scientific efforts as you both are quite content with neo-Darwinsim, I will leave you and your friends to splash about in your primodial pond.

Always wanting to end on a postive though, I heard that the "Flat Earth Society" has finally approved the "Astrology Chapter" and is soliciting applications from "Darwinists" for a third.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Oh dear, now a resort to pure sophistry. Why don't you just do the right thing, as an honest man would, and correct your post?

What you posted is untrue, and the context of your citing the untruth, shows your clear intention was to defame Johnson. That is slander.

Real scientists follow the evidence without fear or favor. Why don't you give that a try?

Your posts irrationally favor the current failing neo-Darwinisn portraying it as if it were fact instead of what it really is, only provisional. And you irrationally fear any other scientific effort to replace neo-Darwinism labeling those scientists as quacks or relgious fanatics. Are you threatened by their new ideas? You seem very emotional about all this, are you?

Since our fearless interlocutor has not offered any other "bigger fish to fry" and, like you, he/she unscientiffcially does not want to be "badgered" with any new scientific efforts as you both are quite content with neo-Darwinsim, I will leave you and your friends to splash about in your primodial pond.

Always wanting to end on a postive though, I heard that the "Flat Earth Society" has finally approved the "Astrology Chapter" and is soliciting applications from "Darwinists" for a third.

My earlier point was that I think issues pertaining to the meaning of the book of Revelation outweigh any interest (let alone any vested interest) that I could ever possibly have (and don't really have) in the Theory of Evolution or its seeming contradiction to the first few chapters of Genesis.

That's why you don't see me defending evolution----because, it's not that serious of an issue and really shouldn't be for anyone. And besides, I'm on the lookout for signs from God in the universe, and if someone can point out even a few very 'obvious' divine fingerprints and get beyond the usual Hiddenness of God problem, among other epistemological and metaphysical problems, then I'm all ears.

In the meantime, there are bigger fish to fry and lots and lots of Screwtape to help folks peal off of their lives (including my own). I would suggest that folks of whatever age be more concerned about bigger fish than whether or not evolution is true. :cool:
 
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The Barbarian

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Even if it was untrue, even if it was untrue and I knew it to be untrue, Johnson, being a lawyer, would correct you. It could not be slander.
Oh dear, now a resort to pure sophistry.
It's just a fact. Why don't you just do the right thing, as an honest man would, and correct your post?

Your posts irrationally favor the current failing neo-Darwinisn portraying it as if it were fact
Think back. Several of us showed you the difference between evolution (an observed fact) and Darwinian theory, which is the currently best explanation for it. As we showed you, all theories are provisionally true, while evolution is a fact. And once again from an honest YE creationist familiar with the evidence for evolutionary theory:

Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.

I say these things not because I'm crazy or because I've "converted" to evolution. I say these things because they are true. I'm motivated this morning by reading yet another clueless, well-meaning person pompously declaring that evolution is a failure. People who say that are either unacquainted with the inner workings of science or unacquainted with the evidence for evolution.


What you posted is untrue. Why not do the honest thing and correct your statement?
What you posted is untrue, and the context of your citing the untruth, shows your clear intention was to defame Johnson. That is slander.
Even if your first sentence was correct, the second would be false. As Johnson himself (being a lawyer) would tell you.

Always wanting to end on a postive though, I heard that the "Flat Earth Society" has finally approved the "Astrology Chapter"
Following the testimony of IDer Michael Behe, who admitted under oath that ID is science in the same sense that astrology is science. They are no doubt soliciting applications from YECs for a third.
 
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The Barbarian

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In the meantime, there are bigger fish to fry and lots and lots of Screwtape to help folks peal off of their lives (including my own). I would suggest that folks of whatever age be more concerned about bigger fish than whether or not evolution is true. :cool:
I think most people get confused about evolution (which we observe constantly) and universal common descent (which is a conclusion from genetics, not evolutionary theory). The former is a fact. The latter is an inference from evidence.
 
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