Sabbath Keeping and The Gospel

BNR32FAN said:

Whose idea was it to observe the yearly feasts and new moon feasts? Was that man’s idea or was that God’s commandment? Your argument here seems to suggest that all of the laws outside of the 10 commandments were man’s laws when that’s not the case at all. You still have laws that were specifically commanded by God that are being abolished in Colossians 2:16. So your argument is nonsensical.

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You are making a different argument than I have ever made. God gave Moses all of the other laws that Moses wrote down in a book, these all came after sin- sin is breaking the law of God that GOD wrote 1John3:4 James2:10-11 Mat5:19-30 Rom7:7, not man its what's under God's mercy seat Exo25:21 Exo31:18, not mans. God instructed Moses to write down all of the other laws that were outside the ark of God's covenant there as a witness against thee Deut31:24, these taught how to keep the law of God and came with the blessing and curses for breaking the law of God, they included all the animal sacrifices, the ordinances, feast day and new moon feasts, the annual sabbaths feasts everything that came after the fall and sin. If God's laws in written in our minds so we know to do them and written in our hearts that we do them because we want to and love God, no one would need the law of Moses.

God Himself did not leave it up to man to write His divine law that included only the Ten Commandments Deut4:13 Exo31:18 that no more were added Deut5:22 its the whole law of God that is perfect Psa19:7 and holy just and good Rom7:12 that if everyone was keeping the way Jesus taught Psa119:96 Mat5:19-30 there would be no more sin in the world, just peace and waves of righteousness Isa 48:18 many don't want to give up their sins John3:19-21

Sadly man has elevated Moses to be the same or above what God did and than they do this with Paul. Both Paul and Moses were servants of God and a servant of God never corrects God, they follow Him and join themselves to Him, as we are called Isa56:6

BNR32FAN said:

Really? So every time Jesus said the words “it is written” that isn’t always referring to the word of God and He only used that phrase in reference to the 10 commandments? Cmon get real.

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Yes it is written is only referring to the word of God and Jesus Himself used the commandment of God as the word of God. So the Ten Commandments is always part of the word of God according to Jesus.

Jesus used interchangeably the commandments of God with the Word of God

Mat 15:3 And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves also break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ From the Ten Commandments
Mat 15:6 he is not to honor his father or mother.’ And by this you have invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.


Mat 7:13 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men

13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying…”

These “words” are the Ten Commandments.

“These words the LORD spoke… and He added no more.
And He wrote them on two tablets of stone." Deut5:22

The Ten Commandments are explicitly called “the words” God spoke, and nothing else was added.


The Hebrew phrase is עֲשֶׂרֶת הַדְּבָרִים — Aseret haDvarim
Meaning: The Ten Words.

The Ten Commandments is the Ten Words of God.

Can the Testimony of God be edited by anyone?

Mat 25:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Why again used interchangeably with the Ten Commandments, the Law of God.

Mat5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Because...

Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven. Right where His ark and Testimony is Rev 11:19 Rev15:5 and includes the 4th commandment unedited as we see it continuing for eternity Isa66:22-23

SabbathBlessings said:

Mat 15:3 And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves also break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ From the Ten Commandments
Mat 15:6 he is not to honor his father or mother.’ And by this you have invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

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Yeah and in Matthew 5 He also mentions God’s commandments and includes commandments that aren’t in the Decalogue but you go right ahead and cherry pick passages if that how you want to interpret scripture. You’re not fooling anyone except yourself.

BNR32FAN said:

Yeah and in Matthew 5 He also mentions God’s commandments and includes commandments that aren’t in the Decalogue but you go right ahead and cherry pick passages if that how you want to interpret scripture. You’re not fooling anyone except yourself.

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We went through this before after repeating the commandments He was referring to, the Ten Commandments , He added FUTHERMORE which means in addition to and than related those right to the Ten Commandments. Because He magnified His law Isa 42:21 never came to destroy Mat5:17, not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19. The law of Moses that was everything written in the Book beside the ark of the covenant that a jot or tittle was predicted He would end Dan9:27 which we see plainly Heb 10:1-10 so it can't be that law. Why would God elevate a law that was written by man over God writing His own commandments Exo20:6 that He called His Testimony. Exo31:18 that He placed inside His ark.

Jesus said the Law He was referring not a jot or tittle would pass Mat5:18-19 and there is only one law written by God Exo31:18 under God's mercy seat Exo25:21 in heaven Rev15:5 Rev11:19, who fits this and Jesus quoted directly from this Law so there would be no mistakes. Mat5:19-30 saying in breaking one would be in fear of sin and judgement. So who is really fooling who? Obeying God's commandments through our faith and love will never lead us from the narrow path Ecc12:13-14 Rev14:12 Rev22:14

Mercy Shown said:

Why do you insist upon labeling things as "The traditions of men."

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I didn't Jesus did, He plainly taught when we lay aside the commandment of God- quoting from the Ten Commandments in place of man-made traditions, ones heart is far from Him and worship becomes in vain. Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 This sounds serious to me, why I do not beleive Paul ever taught we do not have to keep the Sabbath commandment but instead can keep any day we want, what man esteems, mans traditions, not what comes with the power of God. Exo20:8-11 Gen2:1-3 Isa 58:13 Isa 56:2 Eze20:12 Eze 20:20 Col2:8

Mercy Shown said:

Hebrews 8:10 is telling us that God is the one changing our hearts not us. It is telling us that we will reflect his character more and more each day as we behold him. Focusing on the fact that he has taken all of our sins and laid them on Christ--past, present and future--and then adopted us as His very own sons and daughters and that one of the Godhead will be a human being and elder brother forever with us is the most humbling, exhilarating, aweinspring, beautiful thing in the universe. Everyday we should marinate in meditation upon these things and he will change us to obey him in the way he desires.

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What is He changing our hearts for? To be in rebellion to Him and His commandments? To not subject ourselves to the law of God and live in sin Rom8:7-8 what He is trying to change is exactly what people argue about changing.

Mercy Shown said:

Our part is to abide in these meditations on the cross and think deeply about just what it cost God to not only save us but bring us into God family to share the love that the Godhead enjoys with one another. He is drawing us in to become one with Him. We have been released from the law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. Romans 7:6

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Paul taught what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1Cor7:19 and disobeying God's commandments is dishonoring God Rom2:21-23 and sinning Rom7:7 breaking the second greatest commandment Rom13:9 that Jesus said these two there are no greater commandments and being an enemy to God Rom8:7-8. Are you sure Paul is releasing us from only worshipping God, not using His name in an unholy manner, not stealing from our neighbor. I can show you what he is saying, but this interpretation is not what he had in mind, we should reconcile his teachings with his other teachings and more importantly at least for me, with what Jesus taught.

Mercy Shown said:

God is referring to the covenant in place at that time. Mixing the two covenants destroys both. We are invited into a living relationship with the trinity to be changed and given a new heart and a right spirit. If we do not resist God He will complete the good work that He has begun in us.

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Its not mixing two covenants, its the same covenant. The covenant God made was with Israel. Heb 8:10 Isa 56:6 is future and Gentiles are included, those who love and serve Him and join themselves to Him and keep His Sabbath and hold fast to His covenant, the one God plainly said He would not alter His words Psa89:34. Can you tell me in Scripture where we should no longer want to join ourselves to Christ and serve Him. Look up servant in Revelation.

Mercy Shown said:

Of course. I have to keep repeating myself, "this is not about bashing Sabbath Keeping!" This is about condemnation of other fellow Christians who do not observe it the way we do.

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Can you show me where God said we can keep Sabbath on another day? Other than the day He commanded both written and spoken by God Exo20:10 Verse please.

Mercy Shown said:

But who changes the mind from carnal to spiritual. When we run off with our carnal minds and start doing, observing and practicing religion in hopes of changing our minds from carnal to spiritual we just end up being pharisaical. The carnal mind is at enmity to God and therefore is incapable of changing.

You are revealing something here. Where is the heart of one who wants to live in sin? Does such a heart desire to be saved from what it loves? Of course not. Not only that, it is not lost, it has found its home in sin and will die in its arms. When faced with the total forgiveness and erasure of every sin we have done, will do or are doing and also being released from the curse of the law we are suddenly faced with zero motives to obey God other then love. The cross reveals who and what we love. The sermon on The Mount teaches us that. If you never killed anyone, you have satisfied the letter of the law but you still have sinned if you hold haltered toward someone in your carnal heart.

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Why not let God define what sin is and not pluck out one of the commandments that He deems as sin and treat it differently when our Creator did not. Sin is sin- breaking one of the commandments we break them all James2:10-12 which includes the 4th commandment- the way God said because again, He said no editing Deut4:2 Ecc3:14 Mat5:18-19 Rev22:18-19 and He promised He would not alter His words Psa89:34 so this is a direct command from God, those who changed God's times and laws is not coming from God Dan7:25

Mercy Shown said:

Seeking and saving the lost is God's work.

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Are you saying God does not us to help our brethren turn from sin and to Christ?

Mercy Shown said:

The lost are those that find themselves in a condition they do not like and a place that is strange to them. They can't find their way out and they realize they are in mortal danger. But those that find this same place and feel at home with sin are not those that the savior is seeking.

This is a misunderstanding of the old covenants requirements. You need to point out the sin that Jesus committed that would require him to make such a sacrifice. If he committed no sin, then he need not make a sacrifice. Now consider the leper who were healed, what instructions did he give them?

And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.~Matthew 8:4 KJV (King James Version)

Is this what you want to do but refrain from doing? Where is your heart on this?

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I am not sure the point you're trying to make by Jesus cleanings the leper and than showing himself to a priest. Jesus became our High Priest by His death, but it doesn't mean what Jesus taught and how He lived was not for our example to follow when it comes to keeping the commandments and overcoming sin which is breaking them 1John2:6 2Peter2:21-23 Heb4:15

Mercy Shown said:

Hebrews 4 is pointing out what the physical day represented.

This is the symbol of God's rest in Christ. Hebrews 4 is applying Psalms 95 8-11
Today, if only you would hear his voice,
“Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah,[a]
as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,
where your ancestors tested me;
they tried me, though they had seen what I did.
For forty years I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”

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You quoted Heb4:9-10 not Heb 4:7 which this is a direct quote. Psa 95 is about why the Israelites never entered into their promised rest, which is about a day according to God. Eze20:13 Eze20:15-16 You did not address what you quoted that I provided the references. Heb 4 is mainly quoting OT and what its truly teaching is sadly what people use to continue in their rebellion this passage is warning us about.

Mercy Shown said:

To us today making an appeal for those who have not fully surrendered to God's grace and are still working for their salvation to come to him and find rest. Come onto me ye who are heavy laden...

We can also back our way out of God's grace by thinking that we have the wisdom to know what God requires from our fellow Christians. What you are posting sounds fearful rather than rejoicing in the vast benevolence of an Almighty Father who loves us with an everlasting love?

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Jesus said this and still kept the Sabbath day holy Luke4:16 , it was never either or, its both, the rest Christ gives us is from our sins what Jesus is quoting

Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.

The rest Jesus is giving us when we come to Him is rest from our sins. Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30

Sin is:
1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11-12 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. quoting and contrasting directly from the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Jesus will give us rest and in the post you are replying to shows us how we enter into His rest through faith, that you never addressed,

SabbathBlessings said:

Exo 24 is speaking about the law of Moses what was written in the book by Moses Exo24:4-7 Deut31:24-26 as already showed to you a few times.

God spoke directly to the children of Israel His Law, the Ten Commandments Deut4:13 Exo20:6 God wrote them, not Moses Exo31:18

Exo 19:8 Then all the people answered together and said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do.” So Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord. 9 And the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I come to you in the thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and believe you forever.”

Exo 20:1And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

God is not Moses, God never wrote the handwritten ordinances- Moses did 2Chron33:8 its states so plainly in our Bibles.

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Right so you’re still at Moses didn’t write all that the Lord had spoken in Exodus 24:4. That’s still your position, Moses only wrote some of the words that the Lord had spoken is what you’re actually claiming.

Mercy Shown said:

We can also back our way out of God's grace by thinking that we have the wisdom to know what God requires from our fellow Christians. What you are posting sounds fearful rather than rejoicing in the vast benevolence of an Almighty Father who loves us with an everlasting love?

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And we can also fall from grace by seeking to be justified by obedience to the law if we’re not careful about it. Here’s my thoughts on this subject, what is Paul saying in Colossians 2:14-15?

“having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Then Paul goes on to explain that appointed times were removed but if the Saturday sabbath still remains then how are the rulers and authorities disarmed?

BNR32FAN said:

Right so you’re still at Moses didn’t write all that the Lord had spoken in Exodus 24:4. That’s still your position, Moses only wrote some of the words that the Lord had spoken is what you’re actually claiming.

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Why do you think what Moses may have copied down, that there is zero emphasis in the Scripture or even on reference and ignore what Scripture did emphasis, what God did. Exo31:18 Deut4:13 Exo32:16 Exo34:28 Strange. It still doesn't change the fact that Moses handwrote the ordinances that the Bible clearly spells out 2Chron33:8 the context of what Paul was speaking about, the Ten Commandments were never outside the ark of the Covenant of God according to Scripture but inside the ark Exo40:20 Exo25:16. It appears you would rather get rid of all Ten Commandments just so you don't have to keep one of them, the one God said joins ourselves to Him that He said was made for us Mark 2:28 not against us. I see your mind is made up so I guess this will have to be settled once He returns, at that time our decisions will be sealed Rev22:11

SabbathBlessings said:

You are making a different argument than I have ever made. God gave Moses all of the other laws that Moses wrote down in a book, these all came after sin- sin is breaking the law of God that GOD wrote

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I keep hearing sabbatarians mentioning that the sabbath was made before sin, what is the significance of this statement? The commandment to eat green plants was also given before sin and the dietary laws changed 3 times so what’s your point?

SabbathBlessings said:

sin is breaking the law of God that GOD wrote 1John3:4 James2:10-11 Mat5:19-30 Rom7:7, not man its what's under God's mercy seat Exo25:21 Exo31:18, not mans.

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Oh so breaking the two most important commandments isn’t a sin then? They’re not in the Decalogue.

BNR32FAN said:

I keep hearing sabbatarians mentioning that the sabbath was made before sin, what is the significance of this statement? The commandment to eat green plants was also given before sin and the dietary laws changed 3 times so what’s your point?

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You do not see the significance before sin and after sin, really?

BNR32FAN said:

Oh so breaking the two most important commandments isn’t a sin then? They’re not in the Decalogue.

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They summarize the Ten it as shown Rom13:9 Deut 6:5 and stated to you a few times. Love to God was never a feeling that we decide what it means,. Exo20:6 John14:15 1John5:2-3 Our hearts will only lead us astray why faith comes from hearing the word of God, not words of men. God's words have power Psa 33:6-9 ours means nothing.

SabbathBlessings said:

God instructed Moses to write down all of the other laws that were outside the ark of God's covenant there as a witness against thee Deut31:24,

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Why are you quoted Deuteronomy when they were in Moab when we’re talking about Exodus 24 when they were at Mt Sinai?

SabbathBlessings said:

You do not see the significance before sin and after sin, really?

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No please explain it to me

BNR32FAN said:

Why are you quoted Deuteronomy when they were in Moab when we’re talking about Exodus 24 when they were at Mt Sinai?

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You do know there is only one book of the law set beside the ark, not two books right? And the bible is not written in chronological order that it can speak about the same thing and zoom in with more details without deleting the first reference.

SabbathBlessings said:

They summarize the Ten it as shown Rom13:9 Deut 6:5 and stated to you a few times. Love to God was never a feeling that we decide what it means,. Exo20:6 John14:15 1John5:2-3 Our hearts will only lead us astray why faith comes from hearing the word of God, not words of men. God's words have power Psa 33:6-9 ours means nothing.

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Our hearts lead us astray in the new covenant when God has written His laws in our hearts? Why are you quoting from psalms when they didn’t have God’s laws written on their hearts?

BNR32FAN said:

No please explain it to me

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You don't know the consequences of sin and how that changed everything?

BNR32FAN said:

Our hearts lead us astray in the new covenant when God has written His laws in our hearts? Why are you quoting from psalms when they didn’t have God’s laws written on their hearts?

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Are you even reading what is being quoted and the context its being quoted?

And for the record it was always God's will to have His laws in the hearts of His people, to be a delight to do. Its mans all Ecc12:13-14

Psa 40:8 “I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

SabbathBlessings said:

You do know there is only one book of the law set beside the ark, not two books right? And the bible is not written in chronological order that it can speak about the same thing and zoom in with more details without deleting the first reference.

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No that’s not how hermeneutics works Deuteronomy 31 is clearly after Exodus 24 and not even at the same location. You really do not care what the Bible actually says do you? You're so concerned about keeping the sabbath that you don’t even care about being honest about what the Bible actually says.