Why do we do things not written in the Bible?

Jan001 · Thursday at 12:03 PM

The Liturgist said:
Also 2 Thessalonians 2:37, and 1 Corinthians 11:2 reaffirm what is stated in those passages.

Please repost the 2 Thessalonians link. There isn't a 2:37. Thanks!

Bro.T · Thursday at 4:45 PM

Jan001 said:
This is completely false!!!

It is a historical fact that the apostles and all the early Christians worshiped God on Sundays. Here is an excerpt from one of these early writings:

The Didache, The Teachings of the Apostles, is dated to the first century AD.

Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day.
But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. Fort his is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

Justin Martyr FIRST APOLOGY, circa 153-155 A.D., CHAPTER LXVII -- WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things,

It is also a Scriptural fact that not all of Jesus' commands were written down in what we call the NT.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

John 21:25
And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

Paul says in Roman 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Bro.T · Thursday at 4:47 PM

The Liturgist said:
The edict issued in 321 did not make Christianity the state religion; rather that was accomplished in theory by the Cunctos Populos or Edict of Thessalonica in 390.

So no, misreading an article does not evidence make.

I use a source and I believe it, plus The Sabbath did not start with Moses; understand that the Sabbath day is intended to be observe by all nation of people. Its origin goes back to the creation of the world and of mankind.

(Genesis 2:1) Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The above scriptures clearly show that God blessed, sanctified and made Holy the 7th Day at the beginning of the world. God chose to cease from His labor not because He was tired. He chose to cease and rest because he was finished with His creation. The Lord had completed the heavens and the earth along with the creation of man. This day represent a future day of rest, after the Great tribulation period. This day is not alike any other day, it's set apart.

Bro.T · Thursday at 4:53 PM

The Liturgist said:
The source? Well, let’s get that out of the way first: all historical sources except for a few 19th century authors who confused St. Theodosius with St. Constantine. (mostly Landmark Baptists and Restorationists and Millerites) But because you’ll want material to read, well, start with these:

The Edict of Thessalonica, or Cunctos Populos, which you were clearly unfamiliar with - issued in 380, which correctly enforced the Nicene Creed, and precluded Arianism theoretically, but not entirely: https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/29033

Unfortunately even St. Theodosius did not strictly speaking adhere to this edict; in 386 AD he attempted to transfer a basilica in Milan to the Arian heretics, who deny the Incarnation of Christ our True God (you affirm His incarnation, I assume?) but St. Ambrose held a vigil, which precluded it being transferred.

And here’s a website on the University of Chicago’s website discussing the righteous closure of the Pagan temples by St. Theodosius (which appears to be wining about it - typical neo-Pagan response): The Destruction of the Pagan Temples

These were virtuous actions and it is regrettable that St. Constantine did not undertake them; because of St. Constantine’s pluralist tolerance of non-Christian religions, Arians and neo-Platonist Pagans wound up exploiting that to persecute us from two years before his death, at the time of the arrest of St. Athanasius in the mid 330s, until St. Theodosius came to power after the end of Valens.

I would suggest, as a good general history of Christianity in the fourth century, the Cambridge History of Christianity, volume 2, which covers the period from St. Constantine until 600 AD. I have this and can assist you in accessing it should the need arise.

I'm good on my source and belief. The following will show how the observance of the Sabbath went from the 7th day of the week as God commanded to the 1st day of the week. As the story goes Roman Emperor

Constantine who was about to send his troops into battle received a vision of the sun with a cross in it. This signified to him that he would be victorious. His ultimate victory prompted his conversion to Christianity.

This article comes from the Encyclopedia Britannica 7th edition. "It was Roman Emperor Constantine (AD 306-337) who first made a law of the proper observance of Sunday; and who, according to Eusebius, appointed that it should be regularly celebrated throughout the Roman Empire.@ should be noted that Constantine was a Sun Worshiper before his conversion to Christianity. To show the influence of this practice of worshiping the Sun, I'll refer you to an article written in the Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia, "Sunday ( Dies Solis of the Roman calendar the day of the sun, because dedicated to the sun), the first day of the week was adopted by the early Christians as a day of worship". The Sun of Latin adoration, they interpreted as the Sun of Righteousness. Note it was a man who issued in the law in 321 AD to change the day in which to observe Gods sabbath not God!

Bro.T · Thursday at 4:58 PM

Valletta said:
I have already told you that Christianity did not become the state religion under Constantine, and I am not the only one who has tried to set you straight on that subject. Your quotes are about Sunday, I don't see anything in there to back up your allegation that Christianity became the state religion under Constantine. On the subject of citation, when quoting please add the date of the publication and the page number.

Let's end our conversation right here, in the future watch how you speak to people. I don't have to believe you over my source. This article comes from the Encyclopedia Britannica 7th edition. "It was Roman Emperor Constantine (AD 306-337) who first made a law of the proper observance of Sunday; and who, according to Eusebius, appointed that it should be regularly celebrated throughout the Roman Empire.@ should be noted that Constantine was a Sun Worshiper before his conversion to Christianity. To show the influence of this practice of worshiping the Sun, I'll refer you to an article written in the Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia, "Sunday ( Dies Solis of the Roman calendar the day of the sun, because dedicated to the sun), the first day of the week was adopted by the early Christians as a day of worship". The Sun of Latin adoration, they interpreted as the Sun of Righteousness. Note it was a man who issued in the law in 321 AD to change the day in which to observe Gods sabbath not God!

peace in Jesus name

Bro.T · Thursday at 5:03 PM

Hentenza said:
Nah you can’t get away from this that simply. The present day Jews are not Christians and neither were the OT Jews so your argument fails from the get go. Secondly, the reason why I posted that particular resource is because it provides the Bible book and verse for each one of the 613 commandments which is what Rambam compiled. Rambam did not write the Bible nor the 613 commandments of the Jewish law. That honor goes to Moses in the 15th century BCE. So if you want to debunk this then you better address each one of the 613 and its corresponded biblical citation. Good luck,

I though I help you a little here, but you believe what you want. I guess you know more then me.

Hentenza · Thursday at 5:14 PM

Bro.T said:
I though I help you a little here, but you believe what you want. I guess you know more then me.

My brother this is just conversation. You questioned my source and I explained.

The Liturgist · Thursday at 7:56 PM

Bro.T said:
I'm good on my source and belief. The following will show how the observance of the Sabbath went from the 7th day of the week as God commanded to the 1st day of the week. As the story goes Roman Emperor

Constantine who was about to send his troops into battle received a vision of the sun with a cross in it. This signified to him that he would be victorious. His ultimate victory prompted his conversion to Christianity.

This article comes from the Encyclopedia Britannica 7th edition. "It was Roman Emperor Constantine (AD 306-337) who first made a law of the proper observance of Sunday; and who, according to Eusebius, appointed that it should be regularly celebrated throughout the Roman Empire.@ should be noted that Constantine was a Sun Worshiper before his conversion to Christianity. To show the influence of this practice of worshiping the Sun, I'll refer you to an article written in the Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia, "Sunday ( Dies Solis of the Roman calendar the day of the sun, because dedicated to the sun), the first day of the week was adopted by the early Christians as a day of worship". The Sun of Latin adoration, they interpreted as the Sun of Righteousness. Note it was a man who issued in the law in 321 AD to change the day in which to observe Gods sabbath not God!

Strawman fallacy - you claimed Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. I have offered to you definitive evidence that he did no such thing. You now seem to back pedal and appear to be trying to claim I denied St. Constantine issued a decree relating to Sunday, which along with the Edict of Milan, is an unrelated issue. Christianity did not become the official religion of the Roman Empire until 380 AD (the Arianism practiced by Constantius and every subsequent Emperor until Valens except Julian the Apostate, by virtue of its rejection of the Nicene Creed, was not Christian).

Speaking of which there is the issue of the deity of the Holy Spirit and the doctrine of the Trinity you still have not clarified your position on (the doctrine of the Nicene Creed).

The Liturgist · Thursday at 7:58 PM

Bro.T said:
in the future watch how you speak to people. I don't have to believe you over my source.

Nothing @Valletta said to you was remotely discourteous.

The Liturgist · Thursday at 8:00 PM

Bro.T said:
I though I help you a little here, but you believe what you want. I guess you know more then me.

Yes, he does, but the reason for that is not due to some secret power or profound intellectual ability on the part of @Hentenza , but rather simple critical reasoning skills, for he understands what is evidence and what is not evidence, the difference between a valid argument and a logical fallacy, and what is more he does not allow himself to be persuaded by the repetition of derogatory polemics at increasing volume.

Indeed you have been offered, and the offer still stands, access to a treasure-trove of denominationally neutral, unbiased, historically reliable information pertaining to the history of the church from the time of the Apostles through to the repose of Pope Gregory I Diologos in 600 AD.

Jan001 · Thursday at 8:12 PM

Bro.T said:
Paul says in Roman 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

You keep ignoring the historical facts that Jesus commanded the Christians to publicly worship God on Sundays, called the Lord's Day.

So, now you post another Scripture passage which you think supports your belief in Saturday Sabbath worship.

It does not support your belief.

Paul is telling the Jews that they were privileged to know God through the oracles of the Law of Moses, but the Gentiles were not given this privilege. However, under Jesus Christ's new covenant, both Jew and Gentile alike are justified by faith and not by the Law of Moses.

Romans 3:1-3 needs Romans 2: 25-29, Romans 3:19-20, 28-30 for more clarity.

Circumcision of No Avail

Romans 2:25-29
For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.... ....Romans 3:1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:.....Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.....Romans 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Paul is telling the Roman Jews that the oracles of God concerning the circumcision of the flesh under the first covenant are no longer valid under Jesus' new covenant. Paul is telling the Roman Jews that it is the new covenant laws of Jesus Christ that are valid now. His law requires the circumcision of a person's heart by faith and not by the works in the oracles of the Law of Moses.

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Valletta · Thursday at 9:32 PM

Bro.T said:
Let's end our conversation right here, in the future watch how you speak to people. I don't have to believe you over my source. This article comes from the Encyclopedia Britannica 7th edition. "It was Roman Emperor Constantine (AD 306-337) who first made a law of the proper observance of Sunday; and who, according to Eusebius, appointed that it should be regularly celebrated throughout the Roman Empire.@ should be noted that Constantine was a Sun Worshiper before his conversion to Christianity. To show the influence of this practice of worshiping the Sun, I'll refer you to an article written in the Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia, "Sunday ( Dies Solis of the Roman calendar the day of the sun, because dedicated to the sun), the first day of the week was adopted by the early Christians as a day of worship". The Sun of Latin adoration, they interpreted as the Sun of Righteousness. Note it was a man who issued in the law in 321 AD to change the day in which to observe Gods sabbath not God!

peace in Jesus name

Again, your quotes are about Sunday, that is a different topic than your claim that Christianity became the state religion under Constantine. It did not. If you think you have evidence to support your allegation then present it and I will certainly take the time to review it.

Jan001 · Friday at 11:25 AM

Bro.T said:
Let's end our conversation right here, in the future watch how you speak to people. I don't have to believe you over my source. This article comes from the Encyclopedia Britannica 7th edition. "It was Roman Emperor Constantine (AD 306-337) who first made a law of the proper observance of Sunday; and who, according to Eusebius, appointed that it should be regularly celebrated throughout the Roman Empire.@ should be noted that Constantine was a Sun Worshiper before his conversion to Christianity. To show the influence of this practice of worshiping the Sun, I'll refer you to an article written in the Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia, "Sunday ( Dies Solis of the Roman calendar the day of the sun, because dedicated to the sun), the first day of the week was adopted by the early Christians as a day of worship". The Sun of Latin adoration, they interpreted as the Sun of Righteousness. Note it was a man who issued in the law in 321 AD to change the day in which to observe Gods sabbath not God!

peace in Jesus name

Constantine may have made Sunday observance an empire-wide law for the whole Roman Empire during his tenure in the 300s AD; however, we have historical writings that prove that Sunday, the Lord's Day, was observed as the public worship day by all Christian believers since Jesus rose from the dead in the first century. Jesus taught his disciples to do this. They obeyed his command!
I hope that you will be able to comprehend this difference.

The Didache, The Teachings of the Apostles, is dated to the first century AD.

Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day.
But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. Fort his is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

Justin Martyr FIRST APOLOGY, circa 153-155 A.D., CHAPTER LXVII -- WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things,

Bro.T · 2026-02-14T18:14:17-0600

Jan001 said:
Constantine may have made Sunday observance an empire-wide law for the whole Roman Empire during his tenure in the 300s AD; however, we have historical writings that prove that Sunday, the Lord's Day, was observed as the public worship day by all Christian believers since Jesus rose from the dead in the first century. Jesus taught his disciples to do this. They obeyed his command!
I hope that you will be able to comprehend this difference.

The Didache, The Teachings of the Apostles, is dated to the first century AD.

Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day.
But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. Fort his is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

Justin Martyr FIRST APOLOGY, circa 153-155 A.D., CHAPTER LXVII -- WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things,

Many believe that New Testament Christians worshiped on Sunday the 1st day of the week, and that the 7th day Sabbath is a Jewish institution, which started with Moses and somewhere ended in the New Testament. Most not realizing they can’t read one time in the Holy Bible to attend church on the first day of the week Sunday. This is second nature to most requiring no thought. They are simply following the tradition that has been set forth by man. Paul warn us about this in Colossians 2: 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) or Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Bro.T · 2026-02-14T18:38:21-0600

Valletta said:
Again, your quotes are about Sunday, that is a different topic than your claim that Christianity became the state religion under Constantine. It did not. If you think you have evidence to support your allegation then present it and I will certainly take the time to review it.

Thanks for recognizing that, but it's still connected in some way. The word of God fell in the hands of the Gentile after 70 A.D. But God gave his word only to the Hebrew Israelites, not the Jewish people. God promised the Israelites that if they failed to obey him, he would curse them and eventually have them removed from their land and carried as slaves into every nation upon the earth. Israel failed, and God kept his promise.

After the Israelites were remove from the land of Israel, it was left as an empty vacant lot, with know inhabitants. Now, if one can understand that any land which has been emptied of its rightful owners can be claimed by any nationality of people that have power or permission to settle in and possess it, then it should also be easy to understand that nationality of people Which move in it and take over the land can assume (adopt) the culture, history, and even call them self by the name of the people that the they have replaced. After a long period of years, that nationality would be accepted by the rest of the world as being the original and rightful inhabitants of that land. This would especially be true if the original people of the land had been move by force, and carried off as slaves. Such is the case of the real Israelites (Jews)!

After reading a little history, my personal belief is that that maybe the Gentiles at one point was trying to teach as they were taught, which was by Paul (Hebrew), after a certain point of 70 A.D. but down the years in some time, the pagans (Other Gentiles nation) wanted in on the teaching, some really wanted to hear the word of God and some didn't. It cause problems, so instead of war, paganism was push in, among other reasons. But now we dealing with tradition. Paul warn us about this in Colossians 2: 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Bro.T · 2026-02-14T19:01:04-0600

Jan001 said:
You keep ignoring the historical facts that Jesus commanded the Christians to publicly worship God on Sundays, called the Lord's Day.

So, now you post another Scripture passage which you think supports your belief in Saturday Sabbath worship.

It does not support your belief.

Paul is telling the Jews that they were privileged to know God through the oracles of the Law of Moses, but the Gentiles were not given this privilege. However, under Jesus Christ's new covenant, both Jew and Gentile alike are justified by faith and not by the Law of Moses.

Romans 3:1-3 needs Romans 2: 25-29, Romans 3:19-20, 28-30 for more clarity.

Circumcision of No Avail
Romans 2:25-29
For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.... ....Romans 3:1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:.....Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.....Romans 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Paul is telling the Roman Jews that the oracles of God concerning the circumcision of the flesh under the first covenant are no longer valid under Jesus' new covenant. Paul is telling the Roman Jews that it is the new covenant laws of Jesus Christ that are valid now. His law requires the circumcision of a person's heart by faith and not by the works in the oracles of the Law of Moses.

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

You mixing to much in all. I'm not going to argue the circumcision right now, but that has nothing to do with God and the order on who's the Lord's priest. For what purpose did the Lord choose the children of Israel? (Exodus 19: 1-6) Let's look at the 5th & 6th vs.; "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: (6th vs.) and ye shall be unto me a Kingdom of Priest, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." Take a look at what Peter was telling the Jews, quoting Moses in 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) or Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

What is the law that the people of God are to observe? (Exodus 20: 1-23) The Ten Commandments, God descended from heaven and spoke his commandments face to face with his people. Is this law for the children of Israel only? No. (Leviticus 24: 22) "Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: For I am the Lord your God."

How can one who is not of the lineage of Israel, become partakers of the covenant of God? (Ephesians 2:11-22) Let's look at the 11th through 13th verses. "Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12th vs.) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13th vs.) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Paul says in Romans 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,

What is the purpose of man? (Ecclesiastes 12:13) "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: For this is the whole duty of man."

Bro.T · 2026-02-14T19:11:43-0600

The Liturgist said:
Yes, he does, but the reason for that is not due to some secret power or profound intellectual ability on the part of @Hentenza , but rather simple critical reasoning skills, for he understands what is evidence and what is not evidence, the difference between a valid argument and a logical fallacy, and what is more he does not allow himself to be persuaded by the repetition of derogatory polemics at increasing volume.

Indeed you have been offered, and the offer still stands, access to a treasure-trove of denominationally neutral, unbiased, historically reliable information pertaining to the history of the church from the time of the Apostles through to the repose of Pope Gregory I Diologos in 600 AD.

I don't need to go back that far 600 A.D. for this situation. My focus is staying close to the word of God and if it doesn't fit....throw it out! The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) or Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! Remember this in (Gen.2:2-5) (v.2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (v.3) And God blessed the seventh day (every seventh day of the week is a blessed and holy day) and sanctified it (it is a day that is separated (sanctified) for a purpose) because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (v.5) “and there was not a man to till the ground.” There was not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, or Seventh Day Adventist; in fact, there was not a Christian when He constituted the Sabbath Day!

Jan001 · 2026-02-14T19:33:51-0600

Bro.T said:
Many believe that New Testament Christians worshiped on Sunday the 1st day of the week, and that the 7th day Sabbath is a Jewish institution, which started with Moses and somewhere ended in the New Testament. Most not realizing they can’t read one time in the Holy Bible to attend church on the first day of the week Sunday. This is second nature to most requiring no thought. They are simply following the tradition that has been set forth by man. Paul warn us about this in Colossians 2: 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) or Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Obviously, you do not understand that when there is a change in the Levitical priesthood with its Sabbaths for the Israelites only to the Melchizedekian priesthood of Jesus Christ for all people who have faith, regardless of nationality, the public worship day must also change.

This changing of the Saturday worship day for the first covenant Israelites to the Sunday worship day for the new covenant Christians is not a manmade tradition! It is a Scriptural fact.

Hebrews 7:12
For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Revelation 1:10

Hentenza · 2026-02-14T19:41:21-0600

Bro.T said:
I don't need to go back that far 600 A.D. for this situation. My focus is staying close to the word of God and if it doesn't fit....throw it out! The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) or Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Is not a matter of God changing. God indeed does not change but God can usher in a new covenant. God can make the old go away and usher in the new.

Bro.T said:
Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague!

Some of us actually address the 4th commandment head on.

Bro.T said:
Remember this in (Gen.2:2-5) (v.2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (v.3) And God blessed the seventh day (every seventh day of the week is a blessed and holy day) and sanctified it (it is a day that is separated (sanctified) for a purpose) because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (v.5) “and there was not a man to till the ground.” There was not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, or Seventh Day Adventist; in fact, there was not a Christian when He constituted the Sabbath Day!

The thing is that the only way you know about Gen. 2 is because Moses wrote it in the 15th century BCE. Prior to this no one knew about the creation story or about God resting on the seventh day. This is not surprising as scripture does not show a single instance of anyone keeping the sabbath before Moses. In fact the first instance of sabbath in scripture is Exodus 16. So the sabbath was given to Israel at Horeb and only to Israel. In fact it wasn’t even given to Israel forefathers (Deut. 5:1-5).

Valletta · 2026-02-14T21:33:44-0600

Bro.T said:
Thanks for recognizing that, but it's still connected in some way.

Your statement was simply historically incorrect, Christianity did not become the state religion under Constantine. That's not "connected" to anything. As to your take on Gentiles remember that the wise men, the Magi, were Gentiles. God revealed His Kingship to the Gentiles beginning at the birth of Christ.

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