my eclectic view of futurism

Ed Parenteau · Thursday at 11:16 AM

Douggg said:
Right.

Where in those verses does it say that Jesus was speaking on the mount of Olives ?

Luke 21:1-6, you agree that Jesus was speaking in the temple courtyard. But suddenly you say in verse 7 that Jesus was speaking on the mount of Olives. That makes no sense.

For all of Luke 21:1-36, Jesus was speaking in the temple courtyard.

Luke chapter 21 KJV (King James Version)

Luke chapter 21 KJV (King James Version)

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Luke is one of three accounts of the same "discourse". Putting them together we get a fuller picture of what took place.
In both Matthew and Mark, we find out that Jesus was leaving the temple when the disciples asked about the temple buildings. And then in both Matthew and Mark, we find out that the question "when will these things be?", was on the Mt of Olives. Therefore "the Olivet Discourse". They are all eye witness accounts of the same event.
Mark 13:3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately,4“Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to be fulfilled?”
Luke 21:7“Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”
Matthew 24:While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

Spiritual Jew · Thursday at 1:53 PM

Douggg said:
Right.

Where in those verses does it say that Jesus was speaking on the mount of Olives ?

Luke 21:1-6, you agree that Jesus was speaking in the temple courtyard. But suddenly you say in verse 7 that Jesus was speaking on the mount of Olives. That makes no sense.

For all of Luke 21:1-36, Jesus was speaking in the temple courtyard.

Luke chapter 21 KJV (King James Version)

Luke chapter 21 KJV (King James Version)

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

I showed you my reasoning of why Luke 21:7-36 took place on the mount of Olives by looking at Mark 12:37-13:2 and comparing that to the same event recorded in Luke 20:45-Luke 21:6 and you are just ignoring that completely and not addressing it. You are not willing to take part in adult discussion. What a waste of time.

Douggg · Thursday at 4:39 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
I showed you my reasoning of why Luke 21:7-36 took place on the mount of Olives by looking at Mark 12:37-13:2

Your reasoning is flawed. Mark 12, Jesus is speaking in the temple courtyard. Mark 13:1, Jesus has left the temple.

1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!

Differently, in Luke 21:1-6 is in the temple courtyard. Luke 21:7 does not say Jesus left the temple, but continues speaking while in the temple courtyard.

5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

All of Luke 21:1-36, Jesus was speaking in the temple courtyard.

Spiritual Jew · Friday at 8:27 AM

Douggg said:
Your reasoning is flawed. Mark 12, Jesus is speaking in the temple courtyard. Mark 13:1, Jesus has left the temple.

My reasoning is spot on, but you don't want to make any effort to see it. Yes, in Mark 12:37-44 Jesus is speaking in the temple courtyard. That passage is the same event as recorded in Luke 20:45-21:4. Do you deny this? If not, then you should acknowledge that Mark 13:1-2 is the same event as Luke 21:5-6, which means that Jesus had left the temple before what is recorded in Luke 21:5-6 occurred. Please address this.

Douggg said:
1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!

Differently, in Luke 21:1-6 is in the temple courtyard. Luke 21:7 does not say Jesus left the temple, but continues speaking while in the temple courtyard.

This is an argument from silence, which is no argument at all. Just because a certain detail is not included in the text does not prove anything. This is how people like you conclude that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 is not the same event as Matthew 24:29-31 (Mark 13:24-27). In your mind, just because angels are not specifically mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 means it's not the same event as Matthew 24:29-31. That's an argument from silence. There are no contradictory details between the two passages. Likewise, there is no basis for claiming that Mark 13:1-2, Matthew 24:1-2 and Luke 21:5-6 are not records of the same event just because Luke 21:5 doesn't mention that Jesus left the temple.

If you acknowledge that Mark 12:37-44 and Luke 20:45-21:4 are records of the same event, then there is no basis for claiming that Mark 13:1-2 and Luke 21:5-6 are not records of the same event. Please address this.

Douggg said:
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

All of Luke 21:1-36, Jesus was speaking in the temple courtyard.

No, He was not. The parallel passage of the same event recorded in Mark 12:41-Mark 13:37 shows otherwise. By looking at that parallel passage from Mark, you can see that Jesus was outside of the temple in Luke 21:5-6 and was on the mount of Olives starting in Luke 21:7.

Douggg · Friday at 10:50 AM

Spiritual Jew said:
My reasoning is spot on, but you don't want to make any effort to see it. Yes, in Mark 12:37-44 Jesus is speaking in the temple courtyard. That passage is the same event as recorded in Luke 20:45-21:4. Do you deny this? If not, then you should acknowledge that Mark 13:1-2 is the same event as Luke 21:5-6, which means that Jesus had left the temple before what is recorded in Luke 21:5-6 occurred. Please address this.

This is an argument from silence, which is no argument at all. Just because a certain detail is not included in the text does not prove anything. This is how people like you conclude that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 is not the same event as Matthew 24:29-31 (Mark 13:24-27). In your mind, just because angels are not specifically mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 means it's not the same event as Matthew 24:29-31. That's an argument from silence. There are no contradictory details between the two passages. Likewise, there is no basis for claiming that Mark 13:1-2, Matthew 24:1-2 and Luke 21:5-6 are not records of the same event just because Luke 21:5 doesn't mention that Jesus left the temple.

If you acknowledge that Mark 12:37-44 and Luke 20:45-21:4 are records of the same event, then there is no basis for claiming that Mark 13:1-2 and Luke 21:5-6 are not records of the same event. Please address this.

No, He was not. The parallel passage of the same event recorded in Mark 12:41-Mark 13:37 shows otherwise. By looking at that parallel passage from Mark, you can see that Jesus was outside of the temple in Luke 21:5-6 and was on the mount of Olives starting in Luke 21:7.

Luke 21:1-2 proves that Jesus was in the temple courtyard.
Luke 21:3-4 Jesus speaking (the text in red) in the courtyard about the significance of the poor widow's donation.
Luke 21: 5 Some persons there in the temple courtyard, commented about the grandeur of the temple complex.
Luke 21:6 Jesus spoke (the text in red) about the coming destruction of the temple.
Luke 21:7 Some persons there in the temple courtyard responded, asking Jesus when the destruction would be.
Luke 21:8-36 Jesus speaking (the text in red) responded to their question of when.

Luke 21:37-38 Luke's commentary to the readers of the gospel by Luke that Jesus in the day time taught in the temple. And when nightfall came, Jesus left the temple to abode overnight in the mount of Olives.

Spiritual Jew · Friday at 1:04 PM

Douggg said:
Luke 21:1-2 proves that Jesus was in the temple courtyard.
Luke 21:3-4 Jesus speaking (the text in red) in the courtyard about the significance of the poor widow's donation.
Luke 21: 5 Some persons there in the temple courtyard, commented about the grandeur of the temple complex.
Luke 21:6 Jesus spoke (the text in red) about the coming destruction of the temple.
Luke 21:7 Some persons there in the temple courtyard responded, asking Jesus when the destruction would be.
Luke 21:8-36 Jesus speaking (the text in red) responded to their question of when.

Luke 21:37-38 Luke's commentary to the readers of the gospel by Luke that Jesus in the day time taught in the temple. And when nightfall came, Jesus left the temple to abode overnight in the mount of Olives.

You continue to not address my argument where I compare Mark 12:37-13:2 to Luke 20:45-21:6 in order to show where Jesus was in Luke 21:5-6 (outside the temple) and Luke 21:7-36 (on the mount of Olives). Are you afraid to do so?

You are very evasive. Why is that? Do you know how bad that makes you look? How about at least answering one simple question. Do you believe the following 2 passages refer to the same event?

Mark 12:37 Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; how is He then his Son?” And the common people heard Him gladly. 38 Then He said to them in His teaching, “Beware of the scribes, who desire to go around in long robes, love greetings in the marketplaces, 39 the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts, 40 who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.” 41 Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. 42 Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans. 43 So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; 44 for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood.”

Luke 20:45 Then, in the hearing of all the people, He said to His disciples, 46 “Beware of the scribes, who desire to go around in long robes, love greetings in the marketplaces, the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts, 47 who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.” 21:1 And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, 2 and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. 3 So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; 4 for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.”

Douggg · Friday at 1:32 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
You continue to not address my argument where I compare Mark 12:37-13:2 to Luke 20:45-21:6 in order to show where Jesus was in Luke 21:5-6 (outside the temple) and Luke 21:7-36 (on the mount of Olives). Are you afraid to do so?

You are very evasive. Why is that? Do you know how bad that makes you look? How about at least answering one simple question. Do you believe the following 2 passages refer to the same event?

Mark 12:37 Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; how is He then his Son?” And the common people heard Him gladly. 38 Then He said to them in His teaching, “Beware of the scribes, who desire to go around in long robes, love greetings in the marketplaces, 39 the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts, 40 who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.” 41 Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. 42 Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans. 43 So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; 44 for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood.”

Luke 20:45 Then, in the hearing of all the people, He said to His disciples, 46 “Beware of the scribes, who desire to go around in long robes, love greetings in the marketplaces, the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts, 47 who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.” 21:1 And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, 2 and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. 3 So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; 4 for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.”

The issue is whether Luke 21 took place in the temple courtyard or on the mount of Olives.

Luke 21 is a continuation of Luke 20. Both taking place in the temple courtyard. Look at Luke 21:45-47 and then Luke 21:1-2.

In my post #85, I presented Luke 21 verse by verse, proving that Luke 21 took place in the temple courtyard.

Douggg · Friday at 2:26 PM

In Luke 22, the subject changes to the time of the feast of unleavened bread, the Passover, when Jesus would be betrayed by Judas. The feast of unleavened bread spanned 7 days.

The last supper event taking place in the upper room guest chamber of a good man. Then afterward, in verse 40, Jesus and his disciples went to the mount of Olives. Where Jesus prayed alone in a place named Gethsemane, being in stress of what was about to happen, ultimately yielding that the will of the Father be done.

Jesus returned to the presence of the disciples, and then a multitude from the priests and scribes arrived. And Judas, coming with the multitude, betrayed Jesus, greeting him with a kiss, to identify Jesus as the person the multitude was sent to arrest. Jesus then being arrested by servants of the high priest was taken into the high priest's house . And the path to his trial begun.

Spiritual Jew · Friday at 2:39 PM

Douggg said:
The issue is whether Luke 21 took place in the temple courtyard or on the mount of Olives.

That is the issue in relation to Luke 21:7-36. A separate issue is whether Luke 21:5-6 is the same event as recorded in Mark 13:1-2 and Matthew 24:1-2 which took place just outside of the temple after Jesus went out of the temple.

Douggg said:
Luke 21 is a continuation of Luke 20.

LOL. No kidding.

Douggg said:
Both taking place in the temple courtyard.

Wrong. Luke 21-1-4 was in the temple courtyard. Luke 21:5-6 was outside the temple. Then, Luke 21:7-36 was on the mount of Olives. Luke 21:37-38 is a parenthetical passage indicating where Jesus had been that day and night.

Douggg said:
Look at Luke 21:45-47 and then Luke 21:1-2.

In my post #85, I presented Luke 21 verse by verse, proving that Luke 21 took place in the temple courtyard.

This is unbelievable! I didn't ask you to do that, I'm asking you to answer my simple question. You couldn't even bother to answer my simple question asking you if you think that Mark 12:37-44 describes the same event as Luke 20:45-Luke 21:4. What an utter waste of time this is. Is it too much to ask you to even answer a simple question? Do you not want to be taken seriously? Are you afraid to answer that simple question? If not, then please just answer it.

Douggg · Friday at 2:53 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
This is unbelievable! I didn't ask you to do that, I'm asking you to answer my simple question

Of course you did not ask me to go through Luke 21 verse by verse - because it proves your claim that Luke 21:7-36 took place on the mount of Olives is wrong.

You are trying to insert something into the text that is not there. Nothing in Luke 21 even hints of taking place on the mount of Olives.

Spiritual Jew · Friday at 3:11 PM

Douggg said:
Of course you did not ask me to go through Luke 21 verse by verse - because it proves your claim that Luke 21:7-36 took place on the mount of Olives is wrong.

You have proven nothing except that you are afraid to honestly address any challenges to your interpretation of Luke 21. I proved that Luke 21:7-36 took place on the mount of Olives by showing the same timeline of events that was recorded in Mark 12 and 13. Luke 21:7-36 is clearly a record of the same event recorded in Mark 13:3-37 (and therefore Matthew 24:3-51 as well). I've shown that and you won't even address it. You are too afraid to even attempt to address that. Because of your failure to allow Mark 12 and 13 to help you understand Luke 21 better, you continue to deny the truth.

Douggg said:
You are trying to insert something into the text that is not there. Nothing in Luke 21 even hints of taking place on the mount of Olives.

You must be afraid to address my argument because you continue to do so no matter what I do. You are so afraid to do so that you can't even answer a simple question! How do you think that anyone should take any of your claims seriously when you can't answer a simple question?

Douggg · Friday at 6:40 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
You must be afraid to address my argument because you continue to do so no matter what I do. You are so afraid to do so that you can't even answer a simple question!

I have already shown several times that your argument is flawed.

What simple question are you referring to ?

Copy and paste the simple question. A question ends with a "?" mark.

Douggg · Friday at 6:50 PM

@Spiritual Jew

Do a Luke 21 verse by verse presentation like I did in my post #85, to prove your claim that Jesus in verses 5-6 was outside the temple, and that Jesus in verses 7-36 was on the mount of Olives.

Luke 21:1-2 .....
Luke 21:3-4 ....
Luke 21: 5.....
Luke 21:6.....
Luke 21:7......
Luke 21:8-36......

Spiritual Jew · 2026-02-16T07:41:27-0600

Douggg said:
I have already shown several times that your argument is flawed.

What simple question are you referring to ?

Copy and paste the simple question. A question ends with a "?" mark.

Are you being serious here? You can't be. I asked you multiple times. You must be pretending not to know what I asked you. Why would you do that? Why can't you just be honest? I asked if you think that Mark 12:37-44 describes the same event as Luke 20:45-Luke 21:4. Yes or no?

Spiritual Jew · 2026-02-16T07:42:26-0600

Douggg said:
@Spiritual Jew

Do a Luke 21 verse by verse presentation like I did in my post #85, to prove your claim that Jesus in verses 5-6 was outside the temple, and that Jesus in verses 7-36 was on the mount of Olives.

Luke 21:1-2 .....
Luke 21:3-4 ....
Luke 21: 5.....
Luke 21:6.....
Luke 21:7......
Luke 21:8-36......

I proved it using the parallel passage of Mark 12:37-Mark 13:1-2 and you have completely ignored that argument. You are not willing to take part in honest discussion.

Douggg · 2026-02-16T12:28:24-0600

Spiritual Jew said:
Are you being serious here? You can't be. I asked you multiple times. You must be pretending not to know what I asked you. Why would you do that? Why can't you just be honest? I asked if you think that Mark 12:37-44 describes the same event as Luke 20:45-Luke 21:4. Yes or no?

Mark 12:35 and Luke 20:45 both indicate that Jesus was in the temple courtyard.

Mark 12:35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?

Luke 20:45 Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples,

Douggg · 2026-02-16T12:36:13-0600

Spiritual Jew said:
I proved it using the parallel passage of Mark 12:37-Mark 13:1-2 and you have completely ignored that argument. You are not willing to take part in honest discussion.

So, you admit that you cannot prove directly from the actual text of Luke 21, that Jesus was speaking in the temple courtyard in Luke 21.

Do a Luke 21 verse by verse presentation like I did in my post #85, to prove your claim that Jesus in verses 5-6 was outside the temple, and that Jesus in verses 7-36 was on the mount of Olives.

Luke 21:1-2 .....
Luke 21:3-4 ....
Luke 21: 5.....
Luke 21:6.....
Luke 21:7......
Luke 21:8-36......

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my eclectic view of futurism

Well-Known Member

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Amillennialist

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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