under grace1
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All this you have to write out to overturn the plain words of scripture. Neither did the Jerusalem Council ask gentiles to avoid the levitical unclean foods.
Back to a licence to sin again!
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Back to a licence to sin again!
under grace1
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Here's your problem:
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:6
You either follow after the law or the Holy Spirit according to Paul, and only the Spirit can lead you into spiritual truth. You backed the wrong horse so to speak.
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Soyeong
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I'm not overturning the plan meaning of Scripture but rather I am speaking about what the plain meaning of Scripture is.
You are treating Acts 15:19-21 as being an non-exhaustive list, so you don't have any grounds for taking the position that it not being listed means the Gentiles don't need to follow it. Refraining from eating unclean animals is part of what it means to love God, if you think that Gentiles should love God, then the covers refraining from eating unclean animals. The Law of God reveals that it is a sin to eat unclean animals, so if your position were correct, then they gave Gentiles a license to sin. However, the bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so if you insist that the Jerusalem Council should be interpreted as speaking against obeying what God has commanded, then you must obey God rather than the Jerusalem Council.
In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God in contrast with saying that the law of sin held held him captive. I would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:6 as referring to the Law of God as if Paul delighted in being held captive to sin, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive and that the Law of the Spirit has freed us from (Romans 8:2). Moreover, in Romans 8:3-7, Paul said that Christ free us from the law of sin so that we could be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Law of God and he contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God. The Law of God was given by God and the Spirit is God, so it would be contradictory to interpret Paul as saying that we either follow after God or God. It is contradictory to think that we should trust in God instead of in His instructions.
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under grace1
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You do not understand Paul's message, and it is late here, I must get some sleep
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Soyeong
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I also think that do not understand Paul’s message, which is why I explained why I think that is the case, but you are welcome to interact with what I said to explain why you disagree. In 2 Peter 3:15-17, it says that Paul is difficult to understand, that those who are ignorant and unstable twist his words to their own destruction, and to be careful not to be carried away by the error of lawless men, so we can be confident that when Paul is correctly understood that he need not promoting the error of lawless men that you are promoting. Have a good night.
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In Luke 6:37–40, Jesus says:
“Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned…” (Luke 6:37)
“The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.” (Luke 6:40)
Same truth is expressed in Matthew 7:1-5.
So this is dealing with hypocritical judgment and not that a believer cannot judge others at all.
This is evident to anyone who reads the Bible in context.
We know this is the case because John 7:34 says,
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7:34).
.....
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Your silly comments aside, I did not write the Bible. God did. Everything I said is verified by the Scriptures I posted.
If you have a problem with them either take it up with God or we can discuss them here if you like.
.....
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Paul is condemning in keeping the Mosaic Law as a whole under the New Covenant for Gentile believers, and he is condemning "Circumcision Salvationism" in one's initial salvation. That is why most Christians today misunderstand Paul. They don't read Acts 15:1 KJV, Acts 15:5 KJV, and Acts 15:24 KJV (And they don't carefully compare these verses with Romans 2:28-29 KJV, Romans 3:1 KJV, Romans 4:9-11 KJV, Galatians 2:3 KJV, Galatians 5:2 KJV, Galatians 5:6 KJV, Galatians 6:15, 1 Corinthians 7:18-19 KJV, Galatians 21:21 KJV) (Note: Just hover your mouse over the verses and read them very slowly and carefully). Certain Jews were trying to deceive Gentile Christians to be first circumcised in order to be initially saved. This problem was addressed at the Jerusalem council by certain Christian leaders. The Gentile Christians were told by these Jews to go back to the Old Law. However, Christians today under the New Covenant are to keep the Laws from Jesus and His followers under the pages of the New Testament. This is why Paul spoke in the way that he did in regards to salvation being by faith in one's initial salvation.
So you are not understanding Paul is talking about....
1. The False Belief of Circumcision Salvationism in Initial Salvationism (See Acts 15 in the KJV and not a Modern Bible; Note: I say this because the key verses are neutered like a cat). This belief was being pushed by the Jews upon the Gentile Christians.
2. Law Alone or Works Alone Salvationism where it never at any point includes God's grace ever! Yes, I am against those Christian groups who say you must first be baptized in order to be saved. The only way we can be initially saved is by God's grace through believing the gospel message and or calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (Seeking His forgiveness of our old life of sin). No works can get you into the kingdom or to be initially saved. Baptism, circumcision, etc. cannot be how we are initially saved.
3. Works that Paul condemns as a part of salvation are Mosaic Laws like circumcision, etc.; Paul never at any point says that by not murdering, or by refusing to love God and others that you can still inherit the Kingdom. There is obviously a distinction between moral laws that Jesus and His followers gave for the New Testament vs. unique Mosaic Laws that are no more (like the ceremonial laws, judicial laws, and civic laws, sacrificial laws, etc).
4. Initial Salvation in many places within his letters to the churches. Paul was trying to tell them that they did not need to be circumcised in order to be saved. Circumcision is a work. This is why you would see Paul say that we are saved by God's grace through faith without works.
We do not have to be circumcised, keep the Saturday Sabbath, holy days, dietary laws, etcetera.
That does not mean the moral law has not carried over (like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.). The gentiles by nature keep the moral Law within the Law (mosaic Law) without having the Laws of Moses (See Romans 2:14 KJV).
Romans 2:5-7 KJV says,
"But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:..."
Galatians 6:8-9 KJV
"For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."
1 John 2:3-5 KJV
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
1 John 3:7 KJV
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."
1 John 5:12 KJV
"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
1 Timothy 6:14 KJV, 1 Timothy 6:16 KJV
14 ."...our Lord Jesus Christ:..."
16 ...Who only hath immortality,..."
Luke 10:25-28 KJV
"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."
While we are not under the Mosaic Laws (like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, holy days, etc.), the command to love God and your neighbor is still in effect after the cross:
Romans 13:8-10 KJV
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
This includes loving the brethren:
Jesus says,
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." (John 13:34 KJV).
"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." (1 John 3:23 KJV).
1 John 5:2–3 KJV
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."
It's obvious to any student of the Bible that Matthew 7:1-5 KJV is dealing with hypocritical judgment.
John 7:24 KJV says that we can judge righteously.
....
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under grace1
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I dont need to read the rest, the above shows you do not understand Paul's message. Grabbing verses in isolation and simply literalistically repeating them leads to much CON-TEXT:
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[e] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith Rom1:17
Instead of just quoting the random letter, which is easy to do, let us try discernment:
Why is the power of sin the law 1Cor15:56
Why are sinfull passions aroused in us by the law Rom7:5
How/why was sin able to take occasion of the tenth commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul Rom7:7&8 KJV
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under grace1
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That is an absurd conclusion to the text, that only those who do not understand Paul's message would make. Paul gave an example in the next five verses of the law he was writing about, the example was the tenth commandment!
Righteousness of obeying the ten commandments held him captive to the law of sin. But as you do not understand Paul you will not understand that
And what do you think following after the Holy Spirit will produce instead of the law? I presume, from your post you believe the result will be much committing murder, adultery, stealing, coveting, lying, taking the Lords name in vain. My oh my
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under grace1
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Possibly you would like to answer the questions I've asked Bible Highlighter?
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childeye 2
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If we look at the context, John 7:24 is saying the Pharisees are not judging righteously; it's not meant to be understood as Jesus is giving me permission to judge others so long as I'm not a hypocrite.
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Soyeong
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Paul spoke about multiple categories of law in the same verse such as with saying in Romans 7:25 that he served the Law of God with his mind in contrast with serving the law of sin with his flesh, so the fact that he spoke about the Law of God in the next five verses does not mean that he was not speaking about the law of sin in Romans 7:6. Paul was going back and forth in Romans 7 contrasting the Law of God with the law of sin, so it should at least be worth discerning which of the two that he was referring to. It is pointless for you to accuse me of not understanding Paul's message while refusing to interact with my argument to explain why you think I misunderstood him.
I'm basing my position on what I quoted from Paul stated about the law of sin whereas you are completely unable to show me how the position that you just stated is based on what Paul said, so you can keep accusing me of not understanding Paul all you want, but your accusations have no substance whatsoever. Moreover, the position that you just stated direct contradicts what Paul stated:
Romans 7:22-23 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.
God's character traits are the fruits of the Spirit and the Law of Moses is His instructions for how to embody His character traits, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and why the example that Christ set for us to follow can equivalently be described either as walking in the Spirit or as walking in obedience to the Law of Moses.
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Soyeong
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The Law of God leads us to do what is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) while the law of sin leads us in the opposite direction by stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (Romans 7:5). Paul said in Romans 7:22 that he delighted in obeying the Law of God, so verses the refer to something that would be absurd for him to delight doing should not be interpreted as referring to the Law of God while verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from obeying the Law of God should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin.
For example, in Roman 6:14, Paul described the law that we are not under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, and it would be absurd for Paul to delight in that, but rather that is the role of the law of sin. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and in Romans 7:7, the Law of God is not sinful but how we know what sin is, so we are still under the Law of God, but are not under the law of sin. In regard to Romans 7:5, it would be absurd for Paul to delight in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, but rather that is the role of the law of sin. Likewise, in regard to 1 Corinthians 15:56, it would be absurd for Paul to delight in the strength of sin, but rather that is the role of the law of sin.
There is nothing inherent to the command against coveting that causes coveting to increase, but rather that command leads us to repent from our coveting and causes sin to decrease. The problem is that there is the law of sin that is working within us that is reacting to the command against coveting that is causing coveting to increase. In Romans 7:12-13, Paul said that the Law of God is good and that it is not that which is good the brought death to him, but the law of sin producing death in him through that which is good.
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under grace1
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Pity you don't understand a spiritual message, and only live with a watered down version of the TC:
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56
Sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law Rom7:5
Sin took occasion of one of the TC to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul. How?
Someone says to a young teenager
‘’The righteous/justified will obey the TC,
Let us suppose the young teenager is not in ignorance as to what is entailed in obeying the TC, they know no watered down version of them exists. Before them stands the tenth commandment. They must NOT lust/ dwell on any impure thought. What will go through the young teenagers mind?
‘’I must not dwell on any impure thought, if I do it shows I Am not justified before God and will end up in hell’’
Im sure the young man would be petrified of such thoughts, what could you fear more, as a believer than being cast into hell for eternity?
Can you escape thinking of what you fear, or, will thoughts of what you fear consume you? Speaking for myself, when I was young, the more I feared something, the more wild imaginations went through my mind concerning what I feared, and so, concerning the young teenager:
‘’I don’t want to go to hell, I must not dwell on any impure thought, I must not’’
What will be the result? Well it shouldn‘t take much discernment to know. But Paul can explain it. In Rom7:7-11 he is speaking of the time the law came to him, as a thirteen year old, for that is when a young Jewish lad made a personal commitment to God:
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence/sexual desire/passions. For without the law sin was dead. Rom7:7&8
Hence, Righteousness of obeying the ten commandments held him captive to the law of sin and death.
Hence:
Sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law
Hence:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Rom6:14
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under grace1
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The Pharisees were guilty of hypocrisy, they did not practice what they preached/insisted of others. Nothing has changed in 2,000 years sadly
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childeye 2
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As I carry my tiny cross, Agape tells me they were blind, and that grace is paid forward.
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Romans 1:17 KJV
"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."
This is both the faith of believing the gospel message that initially saves us (no works involved) AND the obedience to the faith as Paul talks about.
Romans 1:5 KJV
"By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:"
Why on earth do you think Hebrews 11, which is the famous heroes of faith chapter refers to both a belief type faith AND a faith that involves doing things?
Hebrews 11:7 KJV
"By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."
What do you think would have happened to Noah if he decided to not build the ark and not believe God?
It says he did all of that work by faith. It was a faith in action!!!!
Yet, Christians in America reduce faith to only a belief alone despite it running contrary to many clear examples in Scripture.
I can even go into the Greek if you want.
It has nothing to do with proper spiritual discernment on your end here. How can God agree with a believer justifying sin? He cannot, and so this immediately should tell you that your belief is false. However, birds of a feather, I guess. You are definitely going by your playbook of what you have learned from either your OSAS or Perpetual Belief Alone-ism camps. Yet, you do not even realize that you are misquoting this verse and have no real idea of what it is really saying.
Many believers today misinterpret 2 Corinthians 3:6.
It says,
“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter,
but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” (2 Corinthians 3:6).
Now, this verse is not saying that we are to interpret Scripture in an overly spiritualistic interpretation instead of reading it literally or plainly (i.e., read the Bible as a metaphor when it does not align with what you like to hear). The letter that kills is in reference to the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613 Laws of Moses given to Israel). The context refers to the two different ways each of these covenants began, and it's not talking about the letter in general, like the literal commands of Jesus or His followers.
The Old Covenant Law of Moses BEGAN with "the letter" with the two tablets of stone and the written Torah.
The New Covenant BEGAN with the audible words of Jesus Christ, and His apostles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and not by the letter like with the Law of Moses. That is the point Paul was making. We are now under a New Covenant (Which means we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter - Romans 7:6). The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses. We are not to serve by looking to the Law of Moses. Yes, all believers (who are truly faithful) are guided by the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is not going to guide us into any wrongdoing but the Spirit is going to guide us to obey what the New Testament says. The Spirit will not guide us into obeying the whole of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more.
The context of 2 Corinthians 3:6 shows the differences of the two covenants.
2 Corinthians 3:3, 2 Corinthians 3:7, 2 Corinthians 3:12-17 says,
[3] “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: [13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”
The context is not saying for us to look at Scripture in a non-literal way, and if you do, it will bring death. The point Paul was making is that the Old Law is no more. For in the Old Law, it did bring death because if somebody disobeyed God's commands in the Old Testament, you could be stoned and or killed physically by God's people (the Israelites). This does not mean we can turn God's grace into a license for immorality by saying that Jesus paid for all future sins or by just believing in Jesus alone for salvation. This is not to oversimplify God's commands in loving God and others in a way that we want when God has given us more than just the two greatest commands. In fact, obeying the 400 approximate commands in the New Testament is a partial fulfillment of the 1st greatest commandment. For to love God with all your heart is to keep His commandments. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Just painting a broad brush stroke of loving God and your neighbor without truly seeking to obey all of what God says in His Word is to simply follow our own way of thinking vs. simply following what God's Word says.
Before I answer this, lets establish a few things first.
1 John 3:4 KJV says,
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
1 John 3:23 KJV says,
“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”
So sin is transgression of the Law according to 1 John 3:4.
1 John 3:23 says that to believe on Jesus is a commandment.
So to not believe on Jesus is a sin.
So people do not believe in Jesus because of the strength of this law or command?
Then how do people believe?
In regard to 1 Corinthians 15:56: You need to understand that if you try to obey the Mosaic Law (which no longer applies anymore as a entire contract) you will fall into sin because those Laws no longer apply to us as a whole or package deal (even though the moral laws have carried over). You would be in disobedience because the temple veil has been torn and a new covenant has began. The law has changed (See Hebrews 7:12 KJV).
While 1 Corinthians 15:56 is not referring to the "law" as our instructions under New Covenant faith, if you try to obey God's laws in the New Covenant (or New Testament) without God's proper instructions in His Word in how to do so, or without prayer in seeking His help, you will fall into sin and be a slave to it because you are trying to do it on your own power and strength and not by God's way.
Anyway, in 1 Corinthians 15:56, Paul is referring to the Mosaic Law. This would be aspects of the Mosaic Laws today that no longer apply to us like the ceremonial laws, judicial laws, civic laws, and sacrificial laws.
1 Corinthians 15:56-57 KJV
"The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
If you skip back, Paul alludes to telling the Corinthians that they do not have to be circumcised.
This means that he was alluding to the warning given in Acts 15 KJV in that they do have to be circumcised in order to be initially saved.
1 Corinthians 15:18-19
"Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God."
I am gonna post the verses here because it just seems like you never read Acts 15 in the KJV before.
Acts 15:1 KJV
"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved."
Acts 15:5 KJV
"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
So this means Paul was aware of a heresy of those who thought one had to be circumcised in order to be initially saved. This means there were Jews who wanted Gentile Christians to keep the Laws of Moses even though the Laws of Moses does not apply to them.
Acts 15:24 KJV
"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:"
The power of sin is the Law, i.e., the Mosaic Law because one would be disobeying God by going back to the Old law and that gives sin its strength because they are not properly obeying those commands or instructions God has given them under the New Covenant or New Testament. There is a certain way God wants you to overcome sin. He wants you to do so by His word and by His power and strength by seeking Him. But if you believe you are a slave to sin then you are master to whatever you are enslaved to, whether you be a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness.
Romans 6:6 KJV
“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
Romans 6:12 KJV
“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
Romans 6:18 KJV
“Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Paul never teaches that believers are doomed to remain slaves to sin. Instead, he teaches that freedom from sin is part of salvation’s transforming power.
This is the Mosaic Law that no longer applies.
Paul is speaking in historical present.
Historical present - Wikipedia
Meaning, Paul is recounting his past life experience as a Jew trying to keep the Old law without Jesus Christ.
Paul is speaking in the present tense of his past life experience in trying to obey the Mosaic Law before he met Jesus.
He is not talking about how he is a slave to sin. Just read the next chapter and he talks about how he has been set free from the law of sin and death (Romans 8:2). It's called the law of sin and death because you could be stoned for not obeying the Mosaic Law (which is not the case for New Covenant commands). Granted, governments can punish a believer if they do a really bad sin or crime, and it is no longer the believing community like it was under the Old Covenant with the Mosaic Laws.
There is no tenth commandment. There is no more Mosaic Law. Granted, the command to not covet has carried over into the New Covenant but it is not a part of the 10 anymore. Did you never read Acts 15 KJV before?
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Soyeong
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Paul spoke about over 10 categories of law, so please make the case for which category those verses are referring to out of all the categories that he spoke about rather than just insisting that he was speaking about the Law of God.
There is a difference between you making up your own theology and trying to make Paul fit into it in a way that has nothing to do with the context that he was speaking about and me basing my position on quotes from Paul. Paul did not state anything about someone dwelling on an impure thought means that they are not justified and going to hell. There is a difference between what is inherent to the command itself and the way that we react to the command that is in accordance with the difference between the Law of God and the law of sin and and once you start speaking about what someone thinks about the command you are moving beyond what is inherent to the command to how they are reacting to it. The problem is not with he command itself but with how they are reacting to it, so the solution to the problem is not to free them from the command but to free them from for what is causing them to react to the command in an incorrect manner, which is the law of sin.
In Romans 7:7-13 Paul said that the Law of God is good and that it is not that which is good that brought death to him, but the law of sin producing death in him through that which is good. So again, we do not need to be set free from being under that which is good, but rather we need to be set free from being under that which is producing death through that which is good. Without the law of sin sin would lie dead, so again we need to be set free from being under the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of God, not the other way around.
There is nothing in this passage has anything to do with saying that the righteousness of obeying the ten commandments held him captive to the law of sin and death, so you are just making that up and are insisting on it even though it directly contradicts what Paul said about the law of sin in Romans 7:22-23. If you want to claim to understand Paul correctly, then you should be basing your position on quotes from him instead of just making things up that contradict what he said and have nothing to do with the point that he was making in context.
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under grace1
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I asked you why sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law and you respond with the above?
Paul told us the commandment not to covet aroused sinfull passions in him!
And the old law as you put it could faultlessly be obeyed, so not much sinfull passions had to be stirred in anyone concerning that law did it.
Im afraid you are way off in understanding:
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56
Sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law Rom7:5
Sin took occasion of one of the TC to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul. How?
Someone says to a young teenager
‘’The righteous/justified will obey the TC,
Let us suppose the young teenager is not in ignorance as to what is entailed in obeying the TC, they know no watered down version of them exists. Before them stands the tenth commandment. They must NOT lust/ dwell on any impure thought. What will go through the young teenagers mind?
‘’I must not dwell on any impure thought, if I do it shows I Am not justified before God and will end up in hell’’
Im sure the young man would be petrified of such thoughts, what could you fear more, as a believer than being cast into hell for eternity?
Can you escape thinking of what you fear, or, will thoughts of what you fear consume you? Speaking for myself, when I was young, the more I feared something, the more wild imaginations went through my mind concerning what I feared, and so, concerning the young teenager:
‘’I don’t want to go to hell, I must not dwell on any impure thought, I must not’’
What will be the result? Well it shouldn‘t take much discernment to know. But Paul can explain it. In Rom7:7-11 he is speaking of the time the law came to him, as a thirteen year old, for that is when a young Jewish lad made a personal commitment to God:
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence/sexual desire/passions. For without the law sin was dead. Rom7:7&8
Hence, Righteousness of obeying the ten commandments held him captive to the law of sin and death.
Hence:
Sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law
Hence:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Rom6:14
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