Sabbath Keeping and The Gospel

Mercy Shown · Sunday at 12:38 PM

Yes!

The righteousness of God, as Scripture presents it, is not first something human beings achieve but something God reveals and gives. Paul says that in the gospel “the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith” (Romans 1:17), meaning that righteousness originates in God’s own character and saving action and is made known through faith, not effort. This righteousness reflects God’s faithfulness to put what is broken back into right relationship with himself (Isaiah 46:13), and it stands in contrast to human righteousness, which Scripture consistently describes as inadequate and compromised by sin (Isaiah 64:6). To seek God’s righteousness, therefore, is not to refine the flesh but to turn toward God’s self-giving work.

Scripture is clear that human striving, even religious striving, cannot produce the righteousness God requires. “By works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight” (Romans 3:20), because the law exposes sin rather than cures it. Paul goes so far as to say that Israel’s tragic mistake was not a lack of zeal but a misplaced one: “seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to God’s righteousness” (Romans 10:3). This reveals a subtle danger—our desire to be righteous can itself become an expression of the flesh, an attempt to secure acceptance apart from grace.

God’s answer to this dilemma is not moral rehabilitation but union with Christ. “But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law… through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe” (Romans 3:21–22). In Christ, God does not merely credit righteousness from afar; he draws believers into a living relationship. Paul describes this mystery by saying that God made Christ “to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Righteousness is sought, then, not by striving upward but by abiding—remaining “in him” (John 15:4–5).

When Jesus commands his hearers to “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness” (Matthew 6:33), he is calling for a reorientation of trust and desire rather than a checklist of moral accomplishments. The context is anxiety and self-preservation; seeking God’s righteousness means entrusting one’s life to God’s reign instead of securing it by effort. This aligns with Jesus’ beatitude: “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied” (Matthew 5:6). Hunger acknowledges lack; satisfaction comes as gift.

Repentance plays a vital role in this seeking, but not as payment for righteousness. True repentance is a relinquishing of self-defense and self-justification, a posture God welcomes: “A broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise” (Psalm 51:17). This helps explain why David’s repentance was accepted while Saul’s was not. Saul minimized and rationalized his sin (1 Samuel 15:20–21), while David surrendered himself entirely to God’s mercy (Psalm 51). Righteousness flows where self-reliance collapses.

Once received, the righteousness of God inevitably bears fruit, but that fruit is the result, not the cause. “By grace you have been saved through faith… not a result of works,” Paul writes, and only then adds that believers are “created in Christ Jesus for good works” (Ephesians 2:8–10). The Spirit produces righteousness over time as believers live in dependence: “If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit” (Galatians 5:25). Thus, seeking the righteousness of God means abandoning self-made righteousness, trusting fully in Christ, and allowing the Spirit to shape a life that reflects what has already been freely given (Philippians 3:9).

BobRyan · Sunday at 7:44 PM

Mercy Shown said:
Yes, let me clarify. I have knew a family that had no pictures, sculptures or photos. They would not even allow any of the members of the family to take photos. This was their way of honoring the second commandment. Now, you and I probably do not obey the second commandment in that manner because we interpret it to be referring to the making of idols for worshiping. Should we judge them as extreme or question their love of God? I think we both agree that we should not.

true. All individuals have free will , we try not to judge others for what they choose.
some go beyond the command and make things more strict

Mercy Shown said:
Now an aside, the largest group of sabbatarians are called the 7th-day-adventists.

Indeed , 7th day Sabbath keepers in the Adventist church are around 24 million.

Mercy Shown said:
I do not know if you are one, but if you are I understand that they have added layers of teaching that complicate this matter. I understand that saturday sabbath is central to their eschatology.

Yes they say it has a number of implications on life today

Mercy Shown said:
This makes it a lot more salvific for them. Trust me, I have no intention of launching a polemic against their beliefs but it does add some considerations to the topic because for them it becomes a major test for salvation as the apocalypse falls on the earth.

any group can look at this commandment among the TEN and think that some end time issue boils down to it.

Reading Rev 13 one could conclude that the worship of images would be a big deal as well.

I don't think that is something to complain about.

Mercy Shown said:
So it would be a lot to ask them to consider differing interpretations.

Agreed. Even Jesus did not seem to inclined to consider "differing interpretations" on the commandment to honor parents in Mark 7:7-13

Apparently the Jewish leaders of the day "would beg to differ" as we see in Mark 7

BobRyan · Sunday at 7:50 PM

Mercy Shown said:
Yes!

The righteousness of God, as Scripture presents it, is not first something human beings achieve but something God reveals and gives. Paul says that in the gospel “the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith” (Romans 1:17), meaning that righteousness originates in God’s own character and saving action and is made known through faith, not effort. This righteousness reflects God’s faithfulness to put what is broken back into right relationship with himself (Isaiah 46:13), and it stands in contrast to human righteousness,

True in the case of "do not take God's name in vain"

And true in all cases with God's commandments

Mercy Shown said:
Scripture is clear that human striving, even religious striving, cannot produce the righteousness God requires.

True in the case of "do not take God's name in vain"

And true in all cases with God's commandments

Mercy Shown said:
God’s answer to this dilemma is not moral rehabilitation but union with Christ.

True in the case of "do not take God's name in vain"

And true in all cases with God's commandments

Mercy Shown said:
When Jesus commands his hearers to “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness” (Matthew 6:33), he is calling for a reorientation of trust and desire rather than a checklist

True in the case of "do not take God's name in vain"

And true in all cases with God's commandments

The statements you make are true regardless of which commandment one is discussing and the points you make do not diminish the Word of God as He directs us "If you Love Me KEEP My commandments".

He did not say "if you love me work your way to heaven"
Nor "if you love Me reject salvation, reject grace, just try to earn your way to heaven by not taking God's name in vain"

We can't play that sort of game with even one of God's commandments

Mercy Shown · Sunday at 9:54 PM

BobRyan said:
True in the case of "do not take God's name in vain"

And true in all cases with God's commandments

True in the case of "do not take God's name in vain"

And true in all cases with God's commandments

True in the case of "do not take God's name in vain"

And true in all cases with God's commandments

True in the case of "do not take God's name in vain"

And true in all cases with God's commandments

The statements you make are true regardless of which commandment one is discussing and the points you make do not diminish the Word of God as He directs us "If you Love Me KEEP My commandments".

He did not say "if you love me work your way to heaven"
Nor "if you love Me reject salvation, reject grace, just try to earn your way to heaven by not taking God's name in vain"

We can't play that sort of game with even one of God's commandments

This just shows how difficult it is to let go of works and grasp hold of salvation by faith.

As a person comes to God and is perfected forever by his one sacrifice the author of that persons faith is Christ and Christ alone.

There is no condemnation for those in Christ period. Focus on the law is focus on the wrong thing. It creates judgemental moralists out of us rather than reproducing the image of Christ in us.

Being in Christ will change us into his image as we behold him.

BobRyan · Monday at 6:23 AM

Mercy Shown said:
This just shows how difficult it is to let go of works and grasp hold of salvation by faith.

As a person comes to God and is perfected forever by his one sacrifice the author of that persons faith is Christ and Christ alone.

Mercy Shown said:
There is no condemnation for those in Christ period. Focus on the law is focus on the wrong thing. It creates judgemental moralists out of us rather than reproducing the image of Christ in us.

1. God gave the Law, not Satan
2. God's Word speaks of His Law in the form "How I LOVE Thy Law" Ps 119;17
3. Paul quotes the Command of God AFTER he gives his own command, as though this
ADDs force to his own command.

Eph 6:1-2
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

Verse 1 is Paul writing on his own authority as an inspired prophet
verse 2 he ADDS to that by quoting the Word of God

We don't add with "lesser authority" but rather with greater.

Rev 14:12 "the SAINTS KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD"
1 John 5:3-4 "THIS IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
John 14 "If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Paul says in Heb 8, Christ is the one speaking the Commandments at Sinai

1 Cor 6:
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

You can't write that sort of thing to people that are not subject to the commandments of God

You could argue that those "scriptures are bad" or "they say it the wrong way" or "they are tempting us to believe what they say" , but Paul says in 2 Tim 3 that they are "given by inspiration from God AND are to be used for doctrine/teaching/correction"

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 7:14 AM

Mercy Shown said:
There is no condemnation for those in Christ period. Focus on the law is focus on the wrong thing. It creates judgemental moralists out of us rather than reproducing the image of Christ in us.

So to not focus on the covenant that God made with His New Covenant believers that He wrote His laws in our minds so we know and do them, and wrote them in our hearts that we keep them by love based on what He does Heb8:10,

Paul says that those who do not subject themselves to God's law are not in Christ but His enemy Rom8:7-8 compared to those who are in Christ where there is no condemnation, Rom8:1

So removing/not focusing on the law, there is condemnation because its the path that leads to sin and death Rom6:16 Rom6:23

Compared to those who are in Christ and obey His commandments through His Spirit by love and faith John14:15-18 leads to reconciliation and life

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

So if we believe we are in Christ but not fully subjecting ourselves to God's laws that He wrote in our minds to do them and in our hearts by love Heb8:10, there is a good chance He is not going to know us 1John2:4 and we might be one of those who says Lord Lord at His Second Coming but He says depart from Me Mat7:21-23

Mercy Shown · Monday at 10:50 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
So to not focus on the covenant that God made with His New Covenant believers that He wrote His laws in our minds so we know and do them, and wrote them in our hearts that we keep them by love based on what He does Heb8:10,

The beauty is that God does the writing.

SabbathBlessings said:
Paul says that those who do not subject themselves to God's law are not in Christ but His enemy Rom8:7-8 compared to those who are in Christ where there is no condemnation, Rom8:1

It is not just that they don't but they can't. They have no ability to do so. Paul is not contrasting two ways of becoming righteous in Romans 8, but two realms of existence—in Adam and in Christ. Romans 8:1 does not describe people who have successfully subjected themselves to the law, but people who are “in Christ Jesus.” The absence of condemnation flows from union with Christ, not from law-keeping. This is crucial because Paul has already spent Romans 3–7 arguing at length that righteousness cannot come through the law at all (Rom 3:20; 3:28; 4:5; 7:4).

When Paul says in Romans 8:7–8 that “the mind set on the flesh does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot,” he is not describing regenerate believers who are failing at obedience, but the unregenerate state itself. The inability to submit to the law is not a moral shortcoming that disqualifies someone from Christ; it is the very reason they need Christ. In other words, Paul is not saying, “Submit to the law so that you may be in Christ,” but rather, “Those who are not in Christ remain in the flesh and therefore cannot submit to the law.”

The decisive contrast is not between obedient Christians and disobedient Christians, but between flesh and Spirit. Those who are “in the flesh” cannot please God (Rom 8:8), yet Paul immediately reassures his readers: “You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you” (Rom 8:9). That is grace language, not moralistic warning. Their status is established by God’s action, not their performance.

Obedience does appear in Romans 8, but always as fruit, never foundation. The righteous requirement of the law is “fulfilled in us” not by us (Rom 8:4), and only as we walk according to the Spirit given freely through Christ. Paul is guarding righteousness by grace, not undermining it.

SabbathBlessings said:
So removing/not focusing on the law, there is condemnation because its the path that leads to sin and death Rom6:16 Rom6:23

Compared to those who are in Christ and obey His commandments through His Spirit by love and faith John14:15-18 leads to reconciliation and life

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

So if we believe we are in Christ but not fully subjecting ourselves to God's laws that He wrote in our minds to do them and in our hearts by love Heb8:10, there is a good chance He is not going to know us 1John2:4 and we might be one of those who says Lord Lord at His Second Coming but He says depart from Me Mat7:21-23

Paul, Jesus, and John are not presenting obedience to God’s law as the means by which we become righteous, but as the evidence of a relationship already established by grace. Romans 6 shows that slavery to sin leads to death and slavery to righteousness leads to life, yet Paul is careful to say that eternal life is the gift of God, not the wages of obedience. Jesus’ words, “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments,” describe the fruit of love given and sustained by the Spirit, not a condition for being accepted, which Hebrews 8 confirms by showing that God Himself writes the law on the heart under the new covenant. Warnings like 1 John 2:4 and Matthew 7:21–23 are aimed at false profession, not sincere believers who struggle; those rejected appeal to their works, not to Christ knowing them. Obedience matters deeply, but it flows from being in Christ and known by Him—it does not establish that standing.

Lastly, if you are a Seventh-day Adventist this discussion falls short of addressing the impact of believing that one's salvation in the end depends on the keeping of the law. The eschatology of this group places the law and particularly the 4th commandment as the seal of God and sunday keeping as the "mark of the beast" whereas a lot of Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is the seal of God. So, I can understand how this doctrine would place the law as a dominant factor in salvation for this denomination. I too would be afraid for my salvation under these circumstances.

Mercy Shown · Monday at 10:58 AM

BobRyan said:
1. God gave the Law, not Satan
2. God's Word speaks of His Law in the form "How I LOVE Thy Law" Ps 119;17
3. Paul quotes the Command of God AFTER he gives his own command, as though this
ADDs force to his own command.

Eph 6:1-2
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

Verse 1 is Paul writing on his own authority as an inspired prophet
verse 2 he ADDS to that by quoting the Word of God

We don't add with "lesser authority" but rather with greater.

Rev 14:12 "the SAINTS KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD"
1 John 5:3-4 "THIS IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
John 14 "If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Paul says in Heb 8, Christ is the one speaking the Commandments at Sinai

1 Cor 6:
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

You can't write that sort of thing to people that are not subject to the commandments of God

You could argue that those "scriptures are bad" or "they say it the wrong way" or "they are tempting us to believe what they say" , but Paul says in 2 Tim 3 that they are "given by inspiration from God AND are to be used for doctrine/teaching/correction"

That sounds like some concerns you’re responding to, but it isn’t what I believe. I don’t think anyone is arguing that the Law is evil, from Satan, or unworthy of love—Scripture clearly affirms that it is holy, good, and given by God (Rom 7:12; Ps 119). The point at issue is not the authority of God’s commandments, but their function in the economy of salvation. When Paul appeals to the law, as in Ephesians 6, he is not grounding righteousness in law-keeping but showing that the moral will of God continues to instruct those already “in the Lord.” The command gains force not because it justifies, but because it aligns redeemed children with God’s revealed will. Paul consistently places exhortation after grace, never as its basis.

The same pattern holds in Revelation, John, and Paul’s letters: the saints “keep the commandments” precisely because they have faith in Jesus and the Spirit dwelling in them. These texts describe the character of the redeemed, not the mechanism by which they become redeemed. That is why Paul can warn believers in 1 Corinthians 6 without contradicting justification by grace—he immediately follows those warnings by saying, “such were some of you, but you were washed… justified” (v.11). Scripture is indeed inspired and authoritative, but it must be read in its own redemptive order: grace establishes the relationship; obedience flows from it. To reverse that order is not to honor the law more highly, but to place it in a role Paul explicitly denies it can fulfill.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 11:08 AM

Mercy Shown said:
The beauty is that God does the writing.

Amen, but than why should we not focus on what God is writing on our hearts and minds?

Mercy Shown said:
It is not just that they don't but they can't. They have no ability to do so. Paul is not contrasting two ways of becoming righteous in Romans 8, but two realms of existence—in Adam and in Christ. Romans 8:1 does not describe people who have successfully subjected themselves to the law, but people who are “in Christ Jesus.” The absence of condemnation flows from union with Christ, not from law-keeping. This is crucial because Paul has already spent Romans 3–7 arguing at length that righteousness cannot come through the law at all (Rom 3:20; 3:28; 4:5; 7:4).

When Paul says in Romans 8:7–8 that “the mind set on the flesh does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot,” he is not describing regenerate believers who are failing at obedience, but the unregenerate state itself. The inability to submit to the law is not a moral shortcoming that disqualifies someone from Christ; it is the very reason they need Christ. In other words, Paul is not saying, “Submit to the law so that you may be in Christ,” but rather, “Those who are not in Christ remain in the flesh and therefore cannot submit to the law.”

The decisive contrast is not between obedient Christians and disobedient Christians, but between flesh and Spirit. Those who are “in the flesh” cannot please God (Rom 8:8), yet Paul immediately reassures his readers: “You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you” (Rom 8:9). That is grace language, not moralistic warning. Their status is established by God’s action, not their performance.

Obedience does appear in Romans 8, but always as fruit, never foundation. The righteous requirement of the law is “fulfilled in us” not by us (Rom 8:4), and only as we walk according to the Spirit given freely through Christ. Paul is guarding righteousness by grace, not undermining it.

Paul, Jesus, and John are not presenting obedience to God’s law as the means by which we become righteous, but as the evidence of a relationship already established by grace. Romans 6 shows that slavery to sin leads to death and slavery to righteousness leads to life, yet Paul is careful to say that eternal life is the gift of God, not the wages of obedience. Jesus’ words, “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments,” describe the fruit of love given and sustained by the Spirit, not a condition for being accepted, which Hebrews 8 confirms by showing that God Himself writes the law on the heart under the new covenant. Warnings like 1 John 2:4 and Matthew 7:21–23 are aimed at false profession, not sincere believers who struggle; those rejected appeal to their works, not to Christ knowing them. Obedience matters deeply, but it flows from being in Christ and known by Him—it does not establish that standing.

I disagree, I beleive Paul is contrasting someone who refuses to subject themselves to God's laws i.e. we can lay aside the commandment of God Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 as to say no Lord that commandment is not for me, verses someone who is subjecting themselves to His Spirit and walking in faith which does not void the law of God Rom3:31. There is a difference between stumbling and getting up seeking His help in overcoming than flat out rejecting one of God's commandments, regardless which one it is. No? I beleive when we isolate the 4th commandment and make that one commandment as optional/ not binding is telling God He made a mistake with His own personally-written commandments Exo31:18 Exo20:6, that He placed under His mercy or atonement seat for sins.

Mercy Shown said:
Lastly, if you are a Seventh-day Adventist this discussion falls short of addressing the impact of believing that one's salvation in the end depends on the keeping of the law. The eschatology of this group places the law and particularly the 4th commandment as the seal of God and sunday keeping as the "mark of the beast" whereas a lot of Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is the seal of God. So, I can understand how this doctrine would place the law as a dominant factor in salvation for this denomination. I too would be afraid for my salvation under these circumstances.

I don't recall any SDA ever teaching that salvation is by law-keeping. This is a misconception of what people think we teach and not an actual teaching of the Adventist church. We believe our salvation is based on grace through faith. Faith is not disobedience to what God asks. You can read this in Hebrews 11. We are saved by grace because all has sinned, through faith, the action part is what proves if our faith is genuine. Do you beleive someone with faith will obey God or disobey God? Was it fair for Adam and Eve to be kicked out of the Garden of Eden and lost the tree of life and died because they disobeyed God? Do you think there is any difference between Adam and Eve eating from the one tree God told them not to, than us not keeping the one day God told us to keep holy Exo20:8-11, but instead man decided to keep another day in its place, instead of the day that came with the power of God's blessing and sanctification? Do you not see any differences here? Jesus taught false worship is keeping man-made traditions over obedience to the commandments of God. The end time is over worship. Worship is not just devotion according to Jesus, its who we obey- God or man. Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 I think people have convinced themselves that Jesus loves us more than every single person who came before us who disobeyed that never worked out for them, including breaking the Sabbath commandment Eze 20:13 Eze20:15-16. God never gave us His commandments to punish us, but because He knows what man needs and obedience through faith and love shows we trust in God and what He asks, Disobedience to God no matter how we want to dress it up, is sin, rebellion and unbelief. Heb3:7-13 Sadly most churches teach we can openly disobey God or edit His divine commandments He explicitly said not to Deut4:2 Pro30:6 Ecc3:14 Mat5:18-19 Rev22:18-19 and can be saved in our sins. Heb10:26-30 This is the same lie that deceived our first parents, that we can disobey God and live.

Mercy Shown · Monday at 2:12 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Amen, but than why should we not focus on what God is writing on our hearts and minds?

I disagree, I beleive Paul is contrasting someone who refuses to subject themselves to God's laws i.e. we can lay aside the commandment of God Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 as to say no Lord that commandment is not for me, verses someone who is subjecting themselves to His Spirit and walking in faith which does not void the law of God Rom3:31. There is a difference between stumbling and getting up seeking His help in overcoming than flat out rejecting one of God's commandments, regardless which one it is. No? I beleive when we isolate the 4th commandment and make that one commandment as optional/ not binding is telling God He made a mistake with His own personally-written commandments Exo31:18 Exo20:6, that He placed under His mercy or atonement seat for sins.

I don't recall any SDA ever teaching that salvation is by law-keeping. This is a misconception of what people think we teach and not an actual teaching of the Adventist church. We believe our salvation is based on grace through faith. Faith is not disobedience to what God asks. You can read this in Hebrews 11. We are saved by grace because all has sinned, through faith, the action part is what proves if our faith is genuine. Do you beleive someone with faith will obey God or disobey God? Was it fair for Adam and Eve to be kicked out of the Garden of Eden and lost the tree of life and died because they disobeyed God? Do you think there is any difference between Adam and Eve eating from the one tree God told them not to, than us not keeping the one day God told us to keep holy Exo20:8-11, but instead man decided to keep another day in its place, instead of the day that came with the power of God's blessing and sanctification? Do you not see any differences here? Jesus taught false worship is keeping man-made traditions over obedience to the commandments of God. The end time is over worship. Worship is not just devotion according to Jesus, its who we obey- God or man. Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 I think people have convinced themselves that Jesus loves us more than every single person who came before us who disobeyed that never worked out for them, including breaking the Sabbath commandment Eze 20:13 Eze20:15-16. God never gave us His commandments to punish us, but because He knows what man needs and obedience through faith and love shows we trust in God and what He asks, Disobedience to God no matter how we want to dress it up, is sin, rebellion and unbelief. Heb3:7-13 Sadly most churches teach we can openly disobey God or edit His divine commandments He explicitly said not to Deut4:2 Pro30:6 Ecc3:14 Mat5:18-19 Rev22:18-19 and can be saved in our sins. Heb10:26-30 This is the same lie that deceived our first parents, that we can disobey God and live.

I was referring to teachings like these. Understand that my point is not to criticize or condemn these teachings but it is to help understand this denominations feelings about sabbath on the 7th day. For them it is not a mere theological debate. It involves their efforts to secure their salvation. This explains why it is so fiercely prosecuted.

“Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, ‘Thou art weighed in the balance and found wanting.’ I asked who this company were. The angel said, ‘These are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up… and that was why they were weighed in the balance and found wanting.’”
— Early Writings, p. 37 (quoted in Adventist discussions of White)

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 2:19 PM

Mercy Shown said:
I was referring to teachings like these. Understand that my point is not to criticize or condemn these teachings but it is to help understand this denominations feelings about sabbath on the 7th day. For them it is not a mere theological debate. It involves their efforts to secure their salvation. This explains why it is so fiercely prosecuted.

“Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, ‘Thou art weighed in the balance and found wanting.’ I asked who this company were. The angel said, ‘These are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up… and that was why they were weighed in the balance and found wanting.’”
— Early Writings, p. 37 (quoted in Adventist discussions of White)

Do you beleive that someone can come to Christ and accept what God asks, but than turn from what God asks and still be saved? Regardless if its the 4th commandment, or the 1st commandment of the 9th commandment?

Hentenza · Monday at 2:41 PM

BobRyan said:
1. God gave the Law, not Satan

Strawman. No one has argued that.

BobRyan said:
2. God's Word speaks of His Law in the form "How I LOVE Thy Law" Ps 119;17

Sure but for Israel. Psalm 119 is an acrostic psalm based on the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet which accounts for the 22 units of 8 verses each.

BobRyan said:
3. Paul quotes the Command of God AFTER he gives his own command, as though this
ADDs force to his own command.

Eph 6:1-2
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

Verse 1 is Paul writing on his own authority as an inspired prophet
verse 2 he ADDS to that by quoting the Word of God

And what exactly does this prove? The argument is not that the 10 commandments disappeared but that they are now a part of Jesus two love commandments that we follow with the guidance of the Holy Spirit not by the letter of the law.

BobRyan said:
We don't add with "lesser authority" but rather with greater.

Another Strawman. No one has argued that unless you consider yourself the “greater” authority.

BobRyan said:
Rev 14:12 "the SAINTS KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Which has nothing to do with the other verses. This is a perfect example of theological categorical error.

Mercy Shown · Monday at 9:03 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Do you beleive that someone can come to Christ and accept what God asks, but than turn from what God asks and still be saved? Regardless if its the 4th commandment, or the 1st commandment of the 9th commandment?

If they turn from God, they turn from life for only God gives life and He will force no one. Even if it is turning from Christ to the law.

ViaCrucis · 2026-02-10T01:13:25-0600

Studyman said:
But According to the Holy Scriptures, there is no Faith without Works. James, by the Spirit of Christ, called Faith without works, dead faith. Faith is defined by the Spirit of Christ as, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

What works do you think St. James has in mind here?

"Bring no more vain offerings;
incense is an abomination to Me.
New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations--
I cannot endure iniquity in the solemn assembly.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts, I despise;
They have become a burden to Me;
I am weary of bearing them." - Isaiah 1:13-14

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love." - Galatians 5:6

"If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." - James 1:26-27

"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment." - James 2:8-13

"Faith without works is dead" doesn't make sense except in this context.

The "works" here isn't the Sabbath, or circumcision, or offering goats and doves. It's about loving your neighbor.

pasifika · 2026-02-10T01:23:03-0600

Mercy Shown said:
The gospel teaches that salvation is accomplished entirely by God’s grace in Christ and received through faith apart from works. Because justification is finished, obedience is no longer a means of earning acceptance but a grateful response to it. Within this framework, seventh-day Sabbath observance can be understood not as a legal requirement but as a freely chosen act of worship that confesses God as Creator and Redeemer. Resting on the seventh day does not compete with Christ’s finished work; it bears witness to it by declaring that human striving is not the ground of salvation.

The Sabbath itself precedes the Mosaic covenant and is rooted in God’s creational rest, indicating that its purpose is not merely ceremonial but formative—shaping human life around dependence on God rather than productivity. In Christ, the Sabbath’s deepest meaning is fulfilled, not erased: believers enter true rest by trusting in Jesus’ completed work. Observing the seventh day, therefore, can function as a gospel-shaped practice that reinforces this truth rather than undermining it, much like prayer or generosity—disciplines that do not justify but express faith.

New Testament freedom does not require the abandonment of embodied practices, but their reorientation. Paul’s insistence that believers not judge one another regarding days protects consciences from compulsion, not from devotion. A Christian who honors the seventh day “to the Lord” does so in freedom, not obligation, and thus remains fully aligned with justification by faith alone. Such observance is not a denial of fulfillment in Christ but a voluntary participation in a creational rhythm that points to the rest He provides.

Seen this way, seventh-day Sabbath keeping is not a rival to Sunday worship nor a boundary marker of spiritual status. It is a, grace-driven response to the gospel—an enacted confession that God alone creates, redeems, and restores His people. Far from contradicting gospel theology, this posture applies its central insight: that the gospel does not abolish obedience, but transforms its motive, meaning, and spirit.

You're mixing the old covenant way of obedience to the New covenant way. The old covenant way is based on our own work but the new covenant obedience is based on God's work.

BNR32FAN · 2026-02-10T02:00:38-0600

Mercy Shown said:
The gospel teaches that salvation is accomplished entirely by God’s grace in Christ and received through faith apart from works. Because justification is finished, obedience is no longer a means of earning acceptance but a grateful response to it. Within this framework, seventh-day Sabbath observance can be understood not as a legal requirement but as a freely chosen act of worship that confesses God as Creator and Redeemer. Resting on the seventh day does not compete with Christ’s finished work; it bears witness to it by declaring that human striving is not the ground of salvation.

The Sabbath itself precedes the Mosaic covenant and is rooted in God’s creational rest, indicating that its purpose is not merely ceremonial but formative—shaping human life around dependence on God rather than productivity. In Christ, the Sabbath’s deepest meaning is fulfilled, not erased: believers enter true rest by trusting in Jesus’ completed work. Observing the seventh day, therefore, can function as a gospel-shaped practice that reinforces this truth rather than undermining it, much like prayer or generosity—disciplines that do not justify but express faith.

New Testament freedom does not require the abandonment of embodied practices, but their reorientation. Paul’s insistence that believers not judge one another regarding days protects consciences from compulsion, not from devotion. A Christian who honors the seventh day “to the Lord” does so in freedom, not obligation, and thus remains fully aligned with justification by faith alone. Such observance is not a denial of fulfillment in Christ but a voluntary participation in a creational rhythm that points to the rest He provides.

Seen this way, seventh-day Sabbath keeping is not a rival to Sunday worship nor a boundary marker of spiritual status. It is a, grace-driven response to the gospel—an enacted confession that God alone creates, redeems, and restores His people. Far from contradicting gospel theology, this posture applies its central insight: that the gospel does not abolish obedience, but transforms its motive, meaning, and spirit.

This is a sabbath message that I can agree with because it’s not condemning or accusing those who don’t practice it unlike post #2 by a person that doesn’t understand Colossians 2:16. And in case she reads this you never answered my question, in Exodus 24:3-4 when the people said “all that the Lord has spoken we will do” and Moses wrote down all the words the Lord had spoken, did that include the 10 commandments?

BNR32FAN · 2026-02-10T02:07:22-0600

Mercy Shown said:
Ultimately this leads to God visiting eternal destruction on those who would not submit to him and it bolsters the serpents argument and accusations against God.

Right so it’s a matter of seeking justification by obedience to the law then.

BNR32FAN · 2026-02-10T02:14:18-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
Praise God!

God does not change. I think people misinterpret the Sabbath rest, which is according to the commandment Luke23:56 with resting in Christ for salvation, which means depending on God to complete His finished work Exo32:16 inside us through the power of the Holy Spirit. John14:15-18

In God’s rest there is no rebellion to Him or His commandments Isa48:18

We enter His rest though faith. Those who rest in Him, also rest as God did on the seventh day.

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

Heb4:4 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

We were always made in the image of God to follow Him.

Man has separated this one commandment from the other 9 commandments when God didn’t. Deut4:13 Exo34:28 Exo31:18 Exo25:21 Rev15:5 Rev11:19 We should worship God 365/24/7 but many confuse devotion with true worship. Jesus related worship to obedience to the commandments of God Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 The Sabbath is no different than breaking any of the other commandments James2:11 and should not be treated any differently as if we see our brother committing adultery and how we try to bring Him back to being in harmony with the will of God Psa40:8 . The reality is that there are consequences for our actions Rom6:16 Rev22:14-15 - God gives us everything to overcome Including His own Son, the power of the Holy Spirit if we submit and cooperate, but sadly many like their sins more than their love for Jesus in seeking His help in turning from and forsaking them. John3:19-21 Pro28:13

This is just fanaticism, you think we worship on Sunday because we “love our sin more than Jesus”? Maybe you should read the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector again and think about which of those categories you fit into.

BNR32FAN · 2026-02-10T02:17:45-0600

BobRyan said:
We are not in the business of telling people that worship God, that they are not saved.

We cannot say "hey don't bow down before that image of so-and-so and promise to serve the person it represents because then you will be lost". We can say "this is what the commandment says" but telling people that worship God that they are lost, is not in our list of things to do. We are not God. He alone knows the heart.

Right but you did like the post that says people who worship on Sunday love their sin more than they love Jesus. Is that an attribute of someone who is saved?

BNR32FAN · 2026-02-10T02:21:17-0600

Mercy Shown said:
I am sure we agree that Christians who observe sunday are not necessarily in rebellion and that it is possible to observe Saturday and it the same time be in rebellion.

I think we can all agree that the Pharisees kept the sabbath and their heart was far from Christ. So what day a person chooses to worship doesn’t define their love for God. Some are just weak in faith whereas others understand the freedom we have in Christ.

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