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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Federal agents kill Alex Pretti
- Thread starter LeafByNiggle
- Start date
No one said they did.
Why not? They got arrested for something they were doing. Sure it doesn't mean they will be convicted. But immigration law does not require that. No where in immigration law does it say you have to be convicted of anything before being deported. Quite frankly if you, as an illegal, are involved in something that causes the police to have probable cause to arrest you, then you should be deported. You are not supposed to be here anyway and the you do something that gives police probable cause to arrest you? Then buh by.
Why should illegals who commit acts that give police probable cause for arrest, be allowed to stay? We put up with Americans who do, but we most certainly don't have to put up with illegals who do. It sounds like your real beef is with the law itself. May you should work hard to get the law changed instead of just complaining we have one.
Stopped_lurking
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I haven't said anything about that. But if you are accused of a criminal offense you should be afforded your day in court. You are not a criminal until you have been convicted normally. Why would you say that 60-70% are criminals, if only 26% have been found to be criminals.
My beef is with you painting them as criminals before they have been convicted.
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You know 100% of them are criminals.
Let's look back at what Noem ACTUALLY said. She said this...
but that is the facts, is that 70% of the people that we have detained have charges against them or have been convicted of charges."
She never claimed rhe 70% were convicted criminals.
She said all of them have committed a crime. And she added thar 70% have committed additional crimes or been arrested for additional crimes.
They are criminals. 100% of them are. If you break the law and come here illegally then you are a criminal. 70% if the criminals have done additional criminal acts or done other things that cause police to arrest them for probable cause of other criminal acts. If you are an illegal criminal and do stuff that draws police action then, its your own fault for getting caught as an illegal criminal.
Stopped_lurking
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YOU claimed it:
That is not true, when looking how many have actual criminal convictions.
No.
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No I didn't. I never said they were convicted criminals. I said they are criminals. In fact I will Ammendment my statement. 100% of them are criminals. That is actually more accurate.
Oh? How many are convicted of other offenses?
Yes.
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Stopped_lurking
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By what process does one become a criminal if not by conviction of a criminal offense? Does it mean something else in your use of the word?
Eh, if 74% are not convicted of criminal offences wouldn't that be 26%.
No.
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Tom Homan Reveals How Many Anti-ICE Agitators Have Been Arrested: Many Are Paying the Price
Homan said ICE had arrested over 250 criminals, including 14 convicted of homicide before discussing how many people had been charged.
www.westernjournal.com
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So you didn't see "and such"? Didn't figure I needed to post each and every crime.
He said "the worst of the worst."
President Donald Trump has pledged to deport “the worst of the worst.”
Read the next line which I cannot quote because of AP rules. "Dangerous criminals" which includes murderers, rapists and child predators.You say 60 - 70% are criminals but the site you quoted - The Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse- says 74% are not criminals.
Again, from the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse:
If they are only focusing on the "worst of the worst", why are they arresting immigrants who are following all the rules for immigration at there meetings with the immigration judges? Why are they targeting children?
Trump administration separates thousands of migrant families in the U.S.
President Donald Trump’s zero-tolerance immigration policy split more than 5,000 children from their families at the Mexico border during his first term, when images of babies and toddlers taken from the arms of mothers sparked global condemnation.
www.pbs.org
Seven years later, families are being separated but in a much different way. With illegal border crossings at their lowest levels in seven decades, a push for mass deportations is dividing families of mixed legal status inside the U.S.
Federal officials and their local law enforcement partners are detaining tens of thousands of asylum-seekers and migrants. Detainees are moved repeatedly, then deported, or held in poor conditions for weeks or months before asking to go home.
Cruelty is the point with this current administration.
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Those judges sure have. Also election workers who were outed when Trump lied about them. Somehow no one on the MAGA side seems to be leaping to their defense.
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The far-left network that helped put Alex Pretti in harm's way, then made him a martyr
Encrypted chats show activists tracked ICE agents using a sophisticated database before the fatal shooting of Alex Pretti in Minneapolis. They then used it to mobilize agitators.
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Anti-ICE 'digital Minutemen' use military-grade surveillance tactics against feds
At least 200 groups train civilians in S.A.L.U.T.E. intelligence method to track federal agents in 13 databases, raising national security concerns.
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Pommer
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Yes, this is nice, and nothing at all illegal about it.Anti-ICE 'digital Minutemen' use military-grade surveillance tactics against feds
At least 200 groups train civilians in S.A.L.U.T.E. intelligence method to track federal agents in 13 databases, raising national security concerns.www.foxnews.com
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It was a tragedy. I don't like assigning percentages. Because I don't know all the details of everything. One thing we can say that is 100% true is that had he stayed out of it while carrying a gun, he would be alive today.
If he really wanted to get involved, which he had proven to want to do, then he shoudl have left the gun at home.
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People were doing this with newsgroups in the run-up to the Persian Gulf War.Anti-ICE 'digital Minutemen' use military-grade surveillance tactics against feds
At least 200 groups train civilians in S.A.L.U.T.E. intelligence method to track federal agents in 13 databases, raising national security concerns.
They're making clever use of a common Internet chat capability, but the article decorates it with lots of military jargon to make it look like something surreptitious. "Military grade surveillance tactic" doesn't even mean anything. Birdwatchers do the same thing.
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I don't think you actually have to be convicted to be a criminal. That is a purely legal standard. I'm sure you have heard of cases where the criminal got away with the crime due to legal loopholes or perhaps a screw up by police. Do you believe every single person that was found not guilty or had a case dismissed was actually innocent of the crime? There have been criminals that were killed before a trial or maybe in the commission of or shortly after the crime and were never found guilty. Does that mean they were not a criminal either?
Also, a illegals are criminals.
The numbers are different. However, that is irrelevant to the situation. Because you dont know how many if those that were arrested would be convicted. Secondly you don't know how many actually committed the crime and got would get away with it.
So limiting yourself to only those who were actually convicted is putting Americans at risk. I maintain if an illegal does something that gives police probable cause to arrest you, you should be deported. First and foremost because you ARE already a criminal for being here illegally and secondly you shouldn't be doing stuff that gets you arrested.
Yes.
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