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Yes, i mean : That there would never have been any adultery, and she and the scribes and the pharisees were just lying, in order to trap Jesus ?
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Do you think the woman caught in adultery might have been playing the role of an actress ?
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peaceful-forest
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I think if this were true, there would have been an indication in the Gospels. They plainly note a trap against Jesus.
Example:
Matthew 22:15-22 (NASB) [bold and underlined emphasized]
Then the Pharisees went and plotted together how they might trap Him in what He said. And they sent their disciples to Him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and do not care what anyone thinks; for You are not partial to anyone. Tell us then, what do You think? Is it permissible to pay a poll-tax to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus perceived their malice, and said, “Why are you testing Me, you hypocrites? Show Me the coin used for the poll-tax.” And they brought Him a denarius. And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?” They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” Then He said to them, “Then pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.” And hearing this, they were amazed; and they left Him and went away.
Example:
Matthew 22:15-22 (NASB) [bold and underlined emphasized]
Then the Pharisees went and plotted together how they might trap Him in what He said. And they sent their disciples to Him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and do not care what anyone thinks; for You are not partial to anyone. Tell us then, what do You think? Is it permissible to pay a poll-tax to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus perceived their malice, and said, “Why are you testing Me, you hypocrites? Show Me the coin used for the poll-tax.” And they brought Him a denarius. And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?” They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” Then He said to them, “Then pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.” And hearing this, they were amazed; and they left Him and went away.
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Hello, peaceful-forest. Thank you
Yes, you're right, the trap is not stated in John 8. What we may just say is Jesus was likely put to test.
But what might make my question reasonable is how it sounds plausible that scribes and pharisees might themselves have questionned about obeying or not what Moses 'd prescribed. If there was no trap, why did they ask Jesus for his opinion ? And if there was no trap, why did they go out, letting Jesus alone with the woman ?
And if you read the end of Jn 7, just before the passage (Jn 8) with the adulterine woman,you see Jews are wondering who Jesus is
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peaceful-forest
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I have reread the end of John 7 and the section of John 8 about the adulterous woman. They actually did bring the woman to Jesus to try to trap him. I was wrong.
But I do believe that the woman was guilty of adultery.
John 8:7;9-11 NASB:
When they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Now when they heard this, they began leaving, one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman where she was, in the center of the courtyard. And straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on do not sin any longer.”
But I do believe that the woman was guilty of adultery.
John 8:7;9-11 NASB:
When they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Now when they heard this, they began leaving, one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman where she was, in the center of the courtyard. And straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on do not sin any longer.”
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i greet your saying so. Not that common nowadays
For me it's may be / may be not
Indeed, Jesus reaction points to her sinning, but i see nothing definitely determining of which sin she was guilty
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David Lamb
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John 8:3 says;
“Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst,” (Joh 8:3 NKJV)
If she wasn't actually caught in adultery, surely the record would have stated something like "brought to Him a woman whom they said had been caught in adultery."
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ADVISOR HAT
This thread has been moved from The Junk Drawer which is not a theology forum.
This thread has been moved from The Junk Drawer which is not a theology forum.
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johansen
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Right.
Further more the issue is they would have needed not one, but two witnesses who caught them. And third, they had a law inferred from others, that the witnesses were obligated to attempt to prevent the sin from being committed. You cannot secretly watch a sin and then later accuse.
Furthermore.... Those two witness are the ones who are to cast the first stones.
Furthermore 2.0... this woman was likely betrothed to someone in childhood, and she probably slept with someone else. This is technically adultery, but its also questionable if she indeed consented to the betrothal. The jews did this so in the event their teenagers get pregnant, they are lawfully able to prosecute the father. Otherwise they cant, because its not adultery for two teenagers to have sex unless one or the other is betrothed or married.
When the child gets older, she can break off the betrothal and marry whoever she wants if able and the families allow it
I do not believe God approved of this methodology, but it is effective at controlling who can sleep with who when.
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Well, clearly because the Pharisees were misogynistic hypocrites.
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johansen
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not exactly the family friendly version of a realistic explanation is it.
gets down votes everytime on reddit. people want to think the biblical jews could do no wrong because if it was in their law then it must have been from God.
its never been that simple.
read jeremiah 7:22. -in all the translations. not just the niv.
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Hello Johansen
Never navigated on Reddit before. Thank you
When i wrote "interesting", i meant "interesting information", and not "interesting to use".
i'm not confident anything good may happen from coercitive action, including marriage without consentment
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No. She was not an actress. They brought this adulterous woman to Jesus to see if he would agree with them, that they should stone her, as the Law of Moses commands.
John 8:2-6
Early in the morning he came again to the temple; all the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus looked up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again.”
Jesus does not answer questions that he knows will not serve his purpose on earth. So, he, who can read hearts, writes the sins of her accusers in the dirt and tells them that the person who hasn't committed any sins should throw the first stone at her. Jesus is merciful to her because he knows that she is repentant and that she will not repeat this sin.
"Where was the man who was also caught in adultery with her?"
I think I know the answer; these scribes and Pharisees didn't really care about the sin, they just wanted to test Jesus.
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johansen
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We dont know what he wrote but its more likely he was writing out the appropriate laws from the torah in the dirt, and the older folks who could read it started walking away first, followed by the rest when he spoke the law.
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It doesn't state what was written, but all the Jews already knew the Torah. It was read to them every week in their synagogues.
I think it most likely that Jesus wrote their own sins in the dirt.
Matthew 7:1-3
Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. 2 For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye?
John 8:7
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Matthew 9:4
But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts?
Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander.
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johansen
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fair enough, but this verse below is not support for that position.
the phrase "he who has no sin" is the legal term for the 2 witnesses who saw the sin being committed. they are the ones without sin, who throw the first stones.
whoever it was, either wasn't there, or didn't have the guts to publicly accuse the woman.
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