Greg Bovino Loses His Job

Stopped_lurking said:

Did anyone get roughed up because of this? Do you have any examples of this actually happening? I don't believe that it is reality.

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What, holding cell phones right in cops faces when they're trying to do their job, and blowing whistles in their ears? There's been plenty of that.

ThatRobGuy said:

What, holding cell phones right in cops faces when they're trying to do their job, and blowing whistles in their ears? There's been plenty of that.

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No this:

ThatRobGuy said:

If 56% of the people in the country voted for 55mph speed limits, and I didn't like it, so every time I saw cops pulling people over for speeding, me and my buddies went and started sticking cameras in their faces, blowing whistles in their ears, and trying to block them with our cars, it's just a matter of time before one of us gets roughed up...that's just the unfortunate reality.

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Is this the unfortunate reality? Do you have any examples of anyone getting roughed up because of this?

Stopped_lurking said:

No this:

Is this the unfortunate reality? Do you have any examples of anyone getting roughed up because of this?

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Anytime people are actively harassing cops while they're in the middle of when they're trying to do something, there's always that percentage that will end poorly.

There is some data that we can defer to (per amnesty international)

During the George Floyd protests specifically:

• Over 830 videos documented alleged police brutality incidents during the protests
• They documented 125 separate examples of police violence (that was adjudicated in court) against protesters in 40 states between May 26 and June 5, 2020

It's a simple numbers game, given that "100% of police are, and will always be, perfectly calm, levelheaded gentlemen, regardless of provocation or stressors" is something we all know isn't a reasonable expectation or reality.

Even things as simple as traffic stops have involved people encountering cops on a bad day or just pushing their buttons the wrong way. There's plenty of videos on youtube of self-proclaimed "first amendment auditors" who approach vehicles while police are conducting traffic stops, and then get snarky, refuse to leave, or start insulting the cops, and in some of those videos, they end up getting tackled and/or hit with the taser.

And as much as people would like to blame "lack of training", that's not as big of a factor as people would like to think it is

The reality, nobody likes having some smug know-it-all holding a camera inches from their face and talking down them...yes yes I know, police are expected to be "above that", but we know that there's no such thing as a perfect institution in terms of staffing. No amount of de-escalation training will be able to suppress "visceral reactions" in 100% of people.

Even if someone did that to 1,000 random HR manager (people who are supposed to be experts in such matters), there's a good chance that 1 of the thousand will punch them for it.

ThatRobGuy said:

Anytime people are actively harassing cops while they're in the middle of when they're trying to do something, there's always that percentage that will end poorly.

There is some data that we can defer to (per amnesty international)

During the George Floyd protests specifically:

• Over 830 videos documented alleged police brutality incidents during the protests
• They documented 125 separate examples of police violence (that was adjudicated in court) against protesters in 40 states between May 26 and June 5, 2020

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This is not data on police reactions to the public filming them because of changed maximum speed laws, how is this relevant?

ThatRobGuy said:

It's a simple numbers game, given that "100% of police are, and will always be, perfectly calm, levelheaded gentlemen, regardless of provocation or stressors" is something we all know isn't a reasonable expectation or reality.

Even things as simple as traffic stops have involved people encountering cops on a bad day or just pushing their buttons the wrong way. There's plenty of videos on youtube of self-proclaimed "first amendment auditors" who approach vehicles while police are conducting traffic stops, and then get snarky, refuse to leave, or start insulting the cops, and in some of those videos, they end up getting tackled and/or hit with the taser.

And as much as people would like to blame "lack of training", that's not as big of a factor as people would like to think it is

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It isn't?

ThatRobGuy said:

The reality, nobody likes having some smug know-it-all holding a camera inches from their face and talking down them...yes yes I know, police are expected to be "above that", but we know that there's no such thing as a perfect institution in terms of staffing. No amount of de-escalation training will be able to suppress "visceral reactions" in 100% of people.

Even if someone did that to 1,000 random HR manager (people who are supposed to be experts in such matters), there's a good chance that 1 of the thousand will punch them for it.

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Relevance? Also do you have some data about HR managers and the number of times they have punched people filming them? I've never heard about a HR manager punching someone because they were filmed.

Stopped_lurking said:

This is not data on police reactions to the public filming them because of changed maximum speed laws, how is this relevant?

It isn't?

Relevance? Also do you have some data about HR managers and the number of times they have punched people filming them? I've never heard about a HR manager punching someone because they were filmed.

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You can't train away things like aggression, and the human response to someone being a jackass.

I was just using the HR managers as an example because they're notably supposed to be experts in such matters.

No, there isn't data on HR managers punching people, but you already knew that.


Sometimes examples and hypotheticals are good for highlighting the human element and being able to conceptualize things.

This notion that we can all throw common sense out the window and ignore what we know about human behavior because "oh, well this example isn't a perfect apples-to-apples" or "do you specific data" is something of a shell game.


This "that's not relevant" or "sources please" is the exact type of routine that puts people off of wanting to be affiliated with the progressive movement.

This is common sense stuff, take any profession you want, if I harass enough of them with enough obnoxious condescension enough times, I'll eventually come across the one that will punch me for it.

ThatRobGuy said:

You can't train away things like aggression, and the human response to someone being a jackass.

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I have worked with violent persons (in psychiatry), you absolutely can train away the instinct of meeting violence with violence. Lashing out is just not acceptable.

ThatRobGuy said:

I was just using the HR managers as an example because they're notably supposed to be experts in such matters.

No, there isn't data on HR managers punching people, but you already knew that.

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So you have no idea if what you said is true or not. You specifically called your speed limit example reality. Most people don't go around punching people because they are obnoxious.

So did you chose to use HR managers because you think that if not even they can stop themselves from punching people, how can other professions be expected to?

This argument only have any weight if they actually can't stop themselves from punching people.

ThatRobGuy said:

Sometimes examples and hypotheticals are good for highlighting the human element and being able to conceptualize things.

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You are choosing your hypotheticals to paint your point as more likely.

ThatRobGuy said:

This notion that we can all throw common sense out the window and ignore what we know about human behavior because "oh, well this example isn't a perfect apples-to-apples" or "do you specific data" is something of a shell game.

This "that's not relevant" or "sources please" is the exact type of routine that puts people off of wanting to be affiliated with the progressive movement.

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Ok, why should I care about that? I'm not part of any progressive movement.

ThatRobGuy said:

This is common sense stuff, take any profession you want, if I harass enough of them with enough obnoxious condescension enough times, I'll eventually coe across the one that will punch me for it.

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essentialsaltes said:

ICE shootings: What's changing in Minneapolis now that Trump has put Tom Homan in charge — and what's not​

Rather than “develop target lists of immigrants suspected of being in the U.S. illegally, a longstanding practice,” the Journal reported, Miller told agents to target “Home Depot, where day laborers typically gather for hire, or 7-Eleven convenience stores.”

[This is obviously not targeted enforcement.]

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Bovino frustrated by directive to conduct ‘targeted operations' in Chicago (so he ignored it)​

Bovino wanted to do large-scale immigration sweeps during a September operation in Chicago, but the acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Todd Lyons, told him the focus was to conduct “targeted operations,” arrests only of people known to federal agents ahead of time for their violations of immigration law or other laws, according to the correspondence.

“Mr. Lyons seemed intent that CBP conduct targeted operations for at least two weeks before transitioning to full scale immigration enforcement,” Bovino wrote in an email to DHS leaders in Washington, D.C., referring to Customs and Border Protection, which oversees Border Patrol agents. “I declined his suggestion. We ended the conversation shortly thereafter.”

The email appears to contradict public comments from Noem earlier this month, when she said all immigration enforcement operations are targeted against a specific person known to authorities and believed to have broken the law.

The exchange also aligned Bovino with the top aide to Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, Corey Lewandowski. After Minneapolis, Noem and Lewandowski are now taking a backseat to border czar Tom Homan and Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Rodney Scott — who have publicly advocated for a targeted approach.

So, basically he lied about the murder of Alex Petti. And got fired over it.