The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

zoidar · Feb 1, 2026

Humble-Servant said:
The bible confirms what you said above. 1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"

"The Natural Man", Refers to a person in their unregenerate state, governed by natural reason, emotions, and desires, rather than the Holy Spirit.
"Does Not Receive" Implies an inability, not just a refusal. The unregenerate mind lacks the spiritual capacity to grasp or appreciate divine truths.
"Foolishness" The Gospel and spiritual matters seem irrational or absurd to worldly wisdom.
"Spiritually Discerned" True understanding requires the illumination of the Holy Spirit, which only comes after salvation.

This verse is used to show that intellectual study alone cannot bring a person to salvation; they must be enabled by God. This supports the view that regeneration comes before faith.

Humble-Servant said:
I can see the logic in the points you made about John 15:16 and 2 Thess 2:13-14, I did do a quick study of both to get the surrounding context, and as usual I found nothing in the bible is as as simple as it appears at first.

Whilst it's true that the Lord Jesus choose the disciples for service, it's equally true He chose them for salvation at the same time. Judas is not considered to be a genuine disciple, Jesus knowingly chose Judas to fulfill Scripture, specifically Psalm 41:9 ("He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me").
Judas was ordained to this role, yet he was not a helpless puppet; he acted according to his own wicked desires and was blameworthy for his actions.

While John 15 speaks of branches, "abiding" in this passage as a marker of true, saving faith (those who are truly united to the vine) versus a merely external or superficial attachment, such as that of Judas.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 demonstrates that God sovereignly chose believers for salvation from the beginning, rather than based on foreseen merit. The passage emphasizes that this election is enacted through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, ultimately calling believers to share in the glory of Jesus Christ.
God’s choice of the Thessalonians was made "from the beginning" (before they believed), highlighting that salvation originates in God's sovereign grace, not human choice.

While chosen, salvation is applied through specific means: sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. This ensures that election is not passive but leads to holiness.
Election is accomplished through the proclamation of the gospel, which acts as the means of calling the elect to faith.
The purpose of this election is to ensure that believers obtain the glory of Jesus Christ, representing a secure, eternal salvation.

Paul’s obligation to give thanks stems from the fact that salvation is entirely God’s work, not the result of human merit.

This passage provides comfort by highlighting that God is sovereign over salvation, even amidst the, trials and spiritual deception mentioned earlier in the chapter.

Yeah, the Bible is not easy. It's healthy to go back once in a while and re-evalute passages.

It's true 1 Cor 2:14 says the natural man does not receive the things (the wisdom?) of the Spirit of God. It seems the reason Paul brings up the natural man is to contrast the Spirit and the flesh, exhorting the Corinthians to live by the Spirit and showing Spiritual wisdom comes from the Spirit alone. I don't think this passage is meant to describe an order of salvation or that Paul is making the case the natural is unable to respond when being convicted by the Spirit. To me that goes beyond what Paul is actually addressing in this chapter. Still it's true, it's impossible for the natural man to receive the wisdom of God, the gospel, without the conviction of the Spirit.

I looked a bit further into 2 Thess 1-2. Chapter 1 is focusing on the end of times. So it makes sense that when Paul says God chose them for salvation (2 Thess 2:13), he is referring not to the moment when they came to faith, instead to the end of times when they will reach the final goal of eternal salvation. This also makes sense of the statement "God chose them through sanctification", since those who are sanctified will ultimately reach that goal.

Brightfame52 · Feb 1, 2026

zoidar said:
Still it's true, it's impossible for the natural man to receive the wisdom of God, the gospel, without the conviction of the Spirit.

The conviction of the Spirit occurs when He regenerates you into new spiritual life and gives a New Heart

Brightfame52 · Feb 2, 2026

Christs Intercession and Advocacy are efficacious benefits for any and all for whom Christ died 1 Jn 2:1-2

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Being a propitiation for our sins is another way of saying He died for us, so He lives to be our Intercessor and Advocate/paraklētos.

one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
1. of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins

He can successfully plea on behalf of those He died for, because the sins they are committing, He has satisfied Gods Justice for 25

Carl Emerson · Feb 2, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
The conviction of the Spirit occurs when He regenerates you into new spiritual life and gives a New Heart

The drawing of the Spirit happens before this...

Brightfame52 · Feb 2, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
The drawing of the Spirit happens before this...

No they are one and the same

Carl Emerson · Feb 2, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
No they are one and the same

One in the same Spirit.. yes, however conviction of sin often comes later...

"Come unto Me you who labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest" is often the drawing call and repentance follows.

Brightfame52 · Feb 3, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
One in the same Spirit.. yes, however conviction of sin often comes later...

"Come unto Me you who labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest" is often the drawing call and repentance follows.

No drawing and regeneration are the same.

Carl Emerson · Feb 4, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
No drawing and regeneration are the same.

Regeneration is impossible before the Indwelling at rebirth.

Brightfame52 · Feb 4, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Regeneration is impossible before the Indwelling at rebirth.

The Spirit will indwell when regeneration happens. Everyone Christ died for and saved shall be regenerated and indwelt by the Spirit. Thats a Saving benefit of His death.

zoidar · Feb 4, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
The Spirit will indwell when regeneration happens. Everyone Christ died for and saved shall be regenerated and indwelt by the Spirit. Thats a Saving benefit of His death.

I would say indwelling and regeneration happen simultaneously.

Brightfame52 · Feb 4, 2026

zoidar said:
I would say indwelling and regeneration happen simultaneously.

I have no problem with that. As long as its understood it occurs when Christ draws one to Himself Jn 12:32 Its the power of His Death, Jesus Christ the power of God

Carl Emerson · Feb 4, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
The Spirit will indwell when regeneration happens. Everyone Christ died for and saved shall be regenerated and indwelt by the Spirit. Thats a Saving benefit of His death.

The death of Christ without the Resurrection of Christ is meaningless. Emphasising Death over Life is not faith.

Brightfame52 · Feb 5, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
The death of Christ without the Resurrection of Christ is meaningless

The resurrection of Christ isn't separate from His death, they're together, His resurrection causes the new birth or regeneration 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to · his great mercy gave us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, Mounce

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, NASB 1995

Thats why His death is saving, His resurrection gives new life and conversion

Brightfame52 · Feb 5, 2026

The Death of Christ is a Saving death, it produces a seed that shall serve Him Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Ps 22:30-31

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

This seed serving Him is the result of God making His soul an offering for sin.

It coincides with the Lords words in John 12:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

The word fruit here means:

the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity

The word seed in Isa 53:10 means:

offspring, descendants, posterity, children 25

Brightfame52 · Feb 6, 2026

To bring us to God !

Did Christs death accomplish its saving purpose ? Which was to bring Gods elect to God 1 Pet 3:18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Did His being put to death enough to bring about the desired effects, to bring People to God. The word bring prosagō:

to lead, to bring

to open a way of access, for one to God
1. to render one acceptable to God
to bring) one to God, i. e. to render one acceptable to God and assured of his grace (a figure borrowed from those who secure for one the privilege of an interview with the sovereign),

to draw near to, approach

Its just like Ps 65:4

Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

That blessed man is someone Christ died for.

Carl Emerson · Feb 6, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
The resurrection of Christ isn't separate from His death, they're together, His resurrection causes the new birth or regeneration 1 Pet 1:3

Nearly together - three days apart actually.

The miracle of the resurrection like no other, happened in complete silence with no human witnesses.

Brightfame52 · Feb 7, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Nearly together - three days apart actually.

They still together, its a unified whole of events, thats the Gospel Truth 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I betook to you at the beginning that thing which also I have received; that Christ was dead for our sins, by the scriptures;[a]

4 and that he was buried, and that he rose again in the third day, after [the] scriptures;

And both events results in the Salvation of them He died for, the elect or the saved

Brightfame52 · Feb 10, 2026

The death of Christ saved them He died for, since by it [His death] He for them obtained eternal redemption Heb 9:12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

This redmption means:

a ransoming, redemption
deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

He has obtained for them the deliverance from the penalty of their sins, which penalty was death, even eternal death, so they must have instead eternal life Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life and eternal redemption are relatively the same ! 26

Carl Emerson · Feb 11, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
both events results in the Salvation of them He died for, the elect or the saved

So you claim Salvation was secured for the elect before the resurrection ?

zoidar · Feb 11, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
So you claim Salvation was secured for the elect before the resurrection ?

I think he claims salvation was secured for the elect before creation.

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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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