• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

  • The rule regarding AI content has been updated. The rule now rules as follows:

    Be sure to credit AI when copying and pasting AI sources. Link to the site of the AI search, just like linking to an article.

Zwingli denominations

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
40,623
22,406
30
Nebraska
✟958,716.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
It is also my understanding that the receptionism found in Anglicanism is understood that the worthyness of the one receiving is required for that person to actually receive it. It is taken one step further and is used to justify open communion, in that if a non believer or one who is not prepared to receive it in a worthy manner, then they only receive bread and wine. This is neither found in Scripture or in the writings of the ECFs, it is is a made up doctrine.
Quite interesting. I think the view of Memorial's would be found in evangelical of low Church Anglicans, because most Anglicans, if I understand correctly, believe in the real presence.
 
Upvote 0

MarkRohfrietsch

Unapologetic Apologist
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2007
31,267
6,086
✟1,079,139.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Quite interesting. I think the view of Memorial's would be found in evangelical of low Church Anglicans, because most Anglicans, if I understand correctly, believe in the real presence.
Yes, but through the theology of receptionism.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

PloverWing

Taking a break from CF for Lent
May 5, 2012
5,623
6,690
New Jersey
✟432,898.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

MarkRohfrietsch

Unapologetic Apologist
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2007
31,267
6,086
✟1,079,139.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Not necessarily. Anglicans hold a variety of views about Christ's presence in the Eucharist.
Do the 39 articles not lean in the direction of receptionism? In my experience, 40 years ago, Low Church Anglicanism tended to practice "closed" or "close" communion while the High Church and Anglo-Catholics were more open. But there were also those who leaned in the direction of calvinist memorialism... all using the BoCP?
 
Upvote 0

PloverWing

Taking a break from CF for Lent
May 5, 2012
5,623
6,690
New Jersey
✟432,898.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Do the 39 articles not lean in the direction of receptionism? In my experience, 40 years ago, Low Church Anglicanism tended to practice "closed" or "close" communion while the High Church and Anglo-Catholics were more open. But there were also those who leaned in the direction of calvinist memorialism... all using the BoCP?

I don't think I see receptionism in the 39 articles, but the articles do leave more room for ambiguity than the statements of some other denominations do. Anglicanism deliberately chooses to allow diversity of belief on a number of theological topics, and this is one. Real presence, yes. The exact nature and mechanism of that presence -- we have freedom to disagree. Evangelical Anglicans and Reformed Anglicans and Anglo-Catholics all using the same BCP, yes. Note that we also have the freedom to say "God is present here, and I don't know how."

(Note, by the way, that at least in the American church, the 39 articles are an important historical document for us, but they are not binding on us. The American church moved in a more "Catholic" direction in the last century or so.)

There is an interesting ambiguity in the invitation to the Altar at the end of our Eucharistic Prayer:

The Gifts of God for the People of God.

(Optional extra sentence: Take them in remembrance that Christ died for you, and feed on him in your hearts by faith, with thanksgiving.

The first sentence emphasizes God's action. The second sentence emphasizes our faith, and perhaps leans toward receptionism. Some priests will say only the first sentence; others say both.

Closed vs open communion is a separate question. A common argument for open communion is almost the opposite of receptionism: the view that God's grace comes to us even when we don't perceive it or understand it. Come, if you are seeking God, come to this Altar and receive God's grace with us. We can discuss the theology of it later, at coffee hour. Experience it first, and analyze it later.

You may agree with that, or not. (I suspect you'll disagree. :) ) But it's not receptionism. It's emphasizing that it is God who acts at the Altar, God who pours out grace and love.
 
Last edited:

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
16,917
9,069
51
The Wild West
✟887,833.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I don't think I see receptionism in the 39 articles, but the articles do leave more room for ambiguity than the statements of some other denominations do. Anglicanism deliberately chooses to allow diversity of belief on a number of theological topics, and this is one. Real presence, yes. The exact nature and mechanism of that presence -- we have freedom to disagree. Evangelical Anglicans and Reformed Anglicans and Anglo-Catholics all using the same BCP, yes. Note that we also have the freedom to say "God is present here, and I don't know how."

(Note, by the way, that at least in the American church, the 39 articles are an important historical document for us, but they are not binding on us. The American church moved in a more "Catholic" direction in the last century or so.)

There is an interesting ambiguity in the invitation to the Altar at the end of our Eucharistic Prayer:

The Gifts of God for the People of God.

(Optional extra sentence:) Take them in remembrance that Christ died for you, and feed on him in your hearts by faith, with thanksgiving.

The first sentence emphasizes God's action. The second sentence emphasizes our faith, and perhaps leans toward receptionism. Some priests will say only the first sentence; others say both.

Closed vs open communion is a separate question. A common argument for open communion is almost the opposite of receptionism: the view that God's grace comes to us even when we don't perceive it or understand it. Come, if you are seeking God, come to this Altar and receive God's grace with us. We can discuss the theology of it later, at coffee hour. Experience it first, and analyze it later.

You may agree with that, or not. (I suspect you'll disagree. :) ) But it's not receptionism. It's emphasizing that it is God who acts at the Altar, God who pours out grace and love.

Conversely the epiklesis originally sourced from the Divine Liturgy of St. James by the Non Jurors and present in the Scottish and American BCPs (with the possible exception of the BCP of the Reformed Episcopal Church, if I recall theirs lacks it but its been a while since I saw it, but on the other hand the 2019 ACNA BCP does have it as do the Episcopalian BCPs) has the effect of affirming the Real Presence.

Indeed the Non Jurors picked one of the strongest Epikleses of any ancient liturgy; perhaps the only one less unambiguous in articulating the physical presence is that from the Divine Liturgy of St. Chrysostom (and the Anaphora of the Apostles on which it is based, still used by the Syriac Orthodox, see https://syriacorthodoxresources.org/Liturgy/Anaphora/12Apostles.html)

Then the Deacon having bowed his head, and pointing with his Orarion to the holy bread, saith,

Master, bless the holy bread.


And the Priest, rising up, signeth the holy gifts thrice with the sign of the cross, saying,

And make this bread the precious Body of Thy Christ.

The Deacon. Amen.


And then he saith,
Master, bless the Holy Chalice.



And the Priest, blessing it, saith,
And that which is in this cup, the precious Blood of Thy Christ.

The Deacon. Amen.


And again pointing with his Orarion to both the holy gifts, saith,
Master, bless them both.

And the Priest blessing both the holy gifts, saith,
Changing them by Thy Holy Spirit.

Then the Deacon having bowed his head, and pointing with his Orarion to the holy bread, saith,

Master, bless the holy bread.


And the Priest, rising up, signeth the holy gifts thrice with the sign of the cross, saying,

And make this bread the precious Body of Thy Christ.

The Deacon. Amen.


And then he saith,
Master, bless the Holy Chalice.



And the Priest, blessing it, saith,
And that which is in this cup, the precious Blood of Thy Christ.

The Deacon. Amen.


And again pointing with his Orarion to both the holy gifts, saith,
Master, bless them both.

And the Priest blessing both the holy gifts, saith,
Changing them by Thy Holy Spirit.
 
Last edited:

MarkRohfrietsch

Unapologetic Apologist
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2007
31,267
6,086
✟1,079,139.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
I don't think I see receptionism in the 39 articles, but the articles do leave more room for ambiguity than the statements of some other denominations do. Anglicanism deliberately chooses to allow diversity of belief on a number of theological topics, and this is one. Real presence, yes. The exact nature and mechanism of that presence -- we have freedom to disagree. Evangelical Anglicans and Reformed Anglicans and Anglo-Catholics all using the same BCP, yes. Note that we also have the freedom to say "God is present here, and I don't know how."

(Note, by the way, that at least in the American church, the 39 articles are an important historical document for us, but they are not binding on us. The American church moved in a more "Catholic" direction in the last century or so.)

There is an interesting ambiguity in the invitation to the Altar at the end of our Eucharistic Prayer:

The Gifts of God for the People of God.

(Optional extra sentence:) Take them in remembrance that Christ died for you, and feed on him in your hearts by faith, with thanksgiving.

The first sentence emphasizes God's action. The second sentence emphasizes our faith, and perhaps leans toward receptionism. Some priests will say only the first sentence; others say both.

Closed vs open communion is a separate question. A common argument for open communion is almost the opposite of receptionism: the view that God's grace comes to us even when we don't perceive it or understand it. Come, if you are seeking God, come to this Altar and receive God's grace with us. We can discuss the theology of it later, at coffee hour. Experience it first, and analyze it later.

You may agree with that, or not. (I suspect you'll disagree. :) ) But it's not receptionism. It's emphasizing that it is God who acts at the Altar, God who pours out grace and love.
Thanks for the clarification; the "second" sentence to me reads not so much as receptionism; rather Spiritual reception akin to that of Methodism. :)
 
Upvote 0

PloverWing

Taking a break from CF for Lent
May 5, 2012
5,623
6,690
New Jersey
✟432,898.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Thanks for the clarification; the "second" sentence to me reads not so much as receptionism; rather Spiritual reception akin to that of Methodism. :)

I can see that reading, yes. We're very good at ambiguity. :)
 
Upvote 0