The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

Brightfame52 · Jan 29, 2026

zoidar said:
You seem to be saying if you are in the Spirit you aren't affected by the flesh

No, however one is in the flesh until they are born again of the Spirit. If all the Spirit does is convict you of sin without giving you Spiritual Birth, you remain in the flesh, and the flesh hates God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

zoidar · Jan 29, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
No, however one is in the flesh until they are born again of the Spirit. If all the Spirit does is convict you of sin without giving you Spiritual Birth, you remain in the flesh, and the flesh hates God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But that is not all the Spirit does. The Spirit convicts you, you repent and the Spirit gives you the new birth/the spiritual birth.

Brightfame52 · Jan 29, 2026

zoidar said:
But that is not all the Spirit does.

The Spirit regenerates them Christ died for. Its then the elect person is no longer in the flesh, because the Spirit is dwelling in them, then they are convicted of sin and repent and believe out of their new heart given in regeneration,

zoidar said:
The Spirit convicts you, you repent and the Spirit gives you the new birth/the spiritual birth.

Thats wrong, you cant and dont repent while in the flesh, the flesh of man hates God and isnt subject to God

Carl Emerson · Jan 29, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
Yeah the fruit of their understanding Christ and exactly what His Death accomplished.

Would you like to respond to the matters I raised?

I repeat.

As He says... when we are faithless He is faithful.

No one becomes fully regenerate until resurrection time - Paul never claimed perfection.

Carl Emerson · Jan 29, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
I have no problem with your scriptures, but i dont care much about your experiences, they play no role in how I understand scriptures you may present.

Interesting that when Paul presented himself to the Disciples in Jerusalem, it was not Scripture that convinced them he was on the level, it was his testimony.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

Tell me about your claim to fruitfulness and I might have an ear on your theology.

zoidar · Jan 29, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
The Spirit regenerates them Christ died for. Its then the elect person is no longer in the flesh, because the Spirit is dwelling in them, then they are convicted of sin and repent and believe out of their new heart given in regeneration,

Thats wrong, you cant and dont repent while in the flesh, the flesh of man hates God and isnt subject to God

Much of what I'm saying is coming from experience, rather than buying into any preset theology.

Rom 8:8 says: "those who are in the flesh can't please God." It is true that a man in the flesh can't live a pleasing life to God. However, pleasing God and not being able to respond at all to God when being convicted by the Holy Spirit is not the same thing.

because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:7-8

We see in Ac 3:17-19 that repentance happens first, then our sins are wiped away and we are saved. It's not first we are regenerated and saved, our sins are wiped away, and then we repent.

“And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
— Acts 3:17-19

Brightfame52 · Jan 29, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Would you like to respond to the matters I raised?

Try reading my posts, you have something against the saving death of Christ ? Thats what I want to discuss

Brightfame52 · Jan 29, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Interesting that when Paul presented himself to the Disciples in Jerusalem, it was not Scripture that convinced them he was on the level, it was his testimony.

Guess what ? You aint Paul, nowhere near

Brightfame52 · Jan 29, 2026

zoidar said:
Much of what I'm saying is coming from experience, r

Your experience means nothing to me. Im interested in the word of God

Brightfame52 · Jan 29, 2026

zoidar said:
Rom 8:8 says: "those who are in the flesh can't please God." It is true that a man in the flesh can't live a pleasing life to God. However, pleasing God and not being able to respond at all to God when being convicted by the Holy Spirit is not the same thing.

Faith pleases God, and them in the flesh cant do it Rom 8:8. If all the Spirit does to a person is convict them of sin, and does not regenerate them, they are still in the flesh and cant please God.

Carl Emerson · Jan 29, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
Try reading my posts, you have something against the saving death of Christ ? Thats what I want to discuss

Honestly I am not impressed when folks refuse to talk about anything except the map of life which they have become skilled at reading from one angle. Few want to talk about actually walking on the road because to be asked about the fruit of their superior knowledge is an embarrassment.

Paul spoke about his theology and Paul also spoke about his ministry which confirmed his right theology.

You refusal to do this tells.

Carl Emerson · Jan 29, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
Guess what ? You aint Paul, nowhere near

Luv it... another Noname on cyberspace assumes to see what only Jesus can.

Carl Emerson · Jan 29, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
Try reading my posts, you have something against the saving death of Christ ? Thats what I want to discuss

Exactly - the verses that threaten your theology are off limits.

Like "when we are faithless He is faithful."

Brightfame52 · Jan 30, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Honestly I am not impressed when folks refuse to talk about anything except the map of life which they have become skilled at reading from one angle.

Seems you not interested in the things that Glorify Christ. Like His saving death

Brightfame52 · Jan 30, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Exactly - the verses that threaten your theology are off limits.

Like "when we are faithless He is faithful."

You ready to discuss the saving death of Christ. Do you believe it ? Does your faith lead you to believe that Christs blood alone saved you ?

zoidar · Jan 30, 2026

Humble-Servant said:
I wrestled against the doctrines of "Predestination" and "Election onto Salvation", for around three years, before I finally accepted those verses which support these doctrines, as they are written.

The main ones that troubled me were,

John 15:16 You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

This verse has both "chosen and appointed", so it caused me some sleepless nights.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This verse says; "God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation", it goes a step farther by sating that God chose to save the remnant from the beginningh. The idea that man is free to choose God, by using his free will, falls over in the face of these verses.

Then this verse stripped me of all my pride, and I realised I had nothing to boast about. Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I like to share some thoughts about this. In Joh 15:16, Jesus talks to his apostles. It would be strange if Jesus meant he chose them for salvation, since he also chose Judas who never got saved. To me it makes more sense Jesus chose them as apostles and appointed them for a mission.

2 Thess 2:13-14 says God chose them from the beginning through sanctification and faith. What does Paul mean by "from the beginning"? If this refers to eternity past, then it's hard to understand how this choosing occurred through sanctification and faith, since neither sanctification nor faith existed for them in eternity past. What I suggest it says is God chose them from the beginning, from the time when the gospel started to be proclaimed.

Carl Emerson · Jan 30, 2026

Brightfame52 said:
Seems you not interested in the things that Glorify Christ. Like His saving death

Nonsense - do you want to see an essay I wrote on the centrality of the Cross in faith I wrote about 20 years ago ?

Accusing others of not glorifying Christ is a serious matter - really you need to learn more respect.

Brightfame52 · Jan 30, 2026

Carl Emerson said:
Nonsense - do you want to see an essay I wrote on the centrality of the Cross in faith I wrote about 20 years ago ?

Accusing others of not glorifying Christ is a serious matter - really you need to learn more respect.

Ive by grace have learned respect for the saving death of Christ, hows that ?

Brightfame52 · Jan 30, 2026

Those for whom Christ died, are ensured of Salvation because He liveth to make intercession for them.

Rom 8:32-34

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Nothing in this chain events has anything to do with what the sinner did.

Those who Christ died for are automatically beneficiaries of His Intercession for them

Isa 53:12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you notice He made intercession for not believers, but transgressors. and why? Because for them He poured out his soul unto death.

The word transgressors mean: to rebel, transgress, revolt

Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

So those He died for, He lives evermore, makes intercession for them, which ensures them being saved to the uttermost.

Therefore, all for whom Christ died, and rose again in behalf of, He intercedes for them, ensuring their conversion. 25

Humble-Servant · Jan 31, 2026

zoidar said:
I like to share some thoughts about this. In Joh 15:16, Jesus talks to his apostles. It would be strange if Jesus meant he chose them for salvation, since he also chose Judas who never got saved. To me it makes more sense Jesus chose them as apostles and appointed them for a mission.

2 Thess 2:13-14 says God chose them from the beginning through sanctification and faith. What does Paul mean by "from the beginning"? If this refers to eternity past, then it's hard to understand how this choosing occurred through sanctification and faith, since neither sanctification nor faith existed for them in eternity past. What I suggest it says is God chose them from the beginning, from the time when the gospel started to be proclaimed.

I can see the logic in the points you made about John 15:16 and 2 Thess 2:13-14, I did do a quick study of both to get the surrounding context, and as usual I found nothing in the bible is as as simple as it appears at first.

Whilst it's true that the Lord Jesus choose the disciples for service, it's equally true He chose them for salvation at the same time. Judas is not considered to be a genuine disciple, Jesus knowingly chose Judas to fulfill Scripture, specifically Psalm 41:9 ("He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me").
Judas was ordained to this role, yet he was not a helpless puppet; he acted according to his own wicked desires and was blameworthy for his actions.

While John 15 speaks of branches, "abiding" in this passage as a marker of true, saving faith (those who are truly united to the vine) versus a merely external or superficial attachment, such as that of Judas.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 demonstrates that God sovereignly chose believers for salvation from the beginning, rather than based on foreseen merit. The passage emphasizes that this election is enacted through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, ultimately calling believers to share in the glory of Jesus Christ.
God’s choice of the Thessalonians was made "from the beginning" (before they believed), highlighting that salvation originates in God's sovereign grace, not human choice.

While chosen, salvation is applied through specific means: sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. This ensures that election is not passive but leads to holiness.
Election is accomplished through the proclamation of the gospel, which acts as the means of calling the elect to faith.
The purpose of this election is to ensure that believers obtain the glory of Jesus Christ, representing a secure, eternal salvation.

Paul’s obligation to give thanks stems from the fact that salvation is entirely God’s work, not the result of human merit.

This passage provides comfort by highlighting that God is sovereign over salvation, even amidst the, trials and spiritual deception mentioned earlier in the chapter.

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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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