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How old was Mary when she gave birth to Christ?

The Righterzpen

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The Protoevangelium of St James is based on Church Tradition
But it’s not in the Scripture; and that’s what the problem is. Church fathers didn’t always get everything right.
 
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concretecamper

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What I find funny, almost bodering on hysterical, is that Jerome, who translated the NT Greek text (the text some have brought up here) into Latin believed that Mary was a perpetual virgin based on his translation from the Greek. But wait, some on this forum know better :doh:
 
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jas3

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Read the definition given by the AI;
Right, "or continues up to" is an alternative to "ends," that's what the word "or" means.

"We just have to survive until morning when the rescue team can get to us." Presumably you want to keep surviving after morning as well.

"He worked at his craft until he mastered it." He probably didn't stop his craft as soon as he became a master.
 
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prodromos

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Read the definition given by the AI;
Read it with comprehension.
I stopped at the store until I had to go to work.

The store is still there; I’m the one who left the store.
There was no fruit left to pick, the workers were idle until the end of the day.

This describes the condition of the workers until the end of the day. It says nothing about their condition after the end of the day. Do you agree, or will you remain obstinate?
(Joseph) “knew her not until after she brought forth her first born son”

The state of Mary being a virgin “ended” & “continued up to” Joseph “knowing” her. Which happened after Jesus was born.

The passage doesn’t say “from the birth of Christ until her death, Mary remained a virgin.”
The passage describes Joseph's condition of "not knowing her" up until the birth of Jesus. It says nothing about his condition afterwards. Luke's focus is on the fact that Jesus was not conceived through sexual union. He is not stating that Joseph and Mary had sex after Jesus birth, which would have absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. Your interpretation suggests Luke is giving us irrelevant intimate details of Joseph and Mary's supposed sex life. I think you would agree that nothing irrelevant is in the Gospels.
The passage in Isaiah 28 is pretty clear….
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Revelation was gradual until Christ came, after which it was revealed in full.
In Acts 8 and 15; they went to the apostles for clarification. And even among the apostles; there were times they had to wrestle out among themselves what something meant.
They established the means by which that was done, in a council of elders.
Now church leaders can certainly be good resources to bounce ideas off of; but when what they are saying contradicts the scripture; the answer is that scripture always trumps men’s opinions.
Just because their teaching does not agree with your interpretation of Scripture, doesn't mean your interpretation is correct.
 
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David Lamb

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It doesn't say where she was living when Gabriel came to her.
Doesn't it? What about:

“Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,” (Lu 1:26 NKJV)

“Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered with Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child.” (Lu 2:4-5 NKJV)
 
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prodromos

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Doesn't it? What about:

“Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,” (Lu 1:26 NKJV)

“Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered with Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child.” (Lu 2:4-5 NKJV)
The Protoevangelium of St James doesn't say where Mary was living when the Archangel came to her. That is what I was referring to. Sorry for not being more clear.
 
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David Lamb

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The Protoevangelium of St James doesn't say where Mary was living when the Archangel came to her. That is what I was referring to. Sorry for not being more clear.
Sorry, I misunderstood your post to be saying that the bible doesn't say where Mary was living when the Archangel came to her.
 
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The Righterzpen

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What I find funny, almost bodering on hysterical, is that Jerome, who translated the NT Greek text (the text some have brought up here) into Latin believed that Mary was a perpetual virgin based on his translation from the Greek. But wait, some on this forum know better :doh:
Show us in the Greek text where this is true.
 
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The Righterzpen

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The passage describes Joseph's condition of "not knowing her" up until the birth of Jesus. It says nothing about his condition afterwards.
Read it with comprehension.
Mary was pregnant until Jesus was born. But... since "until" means nothing about her condition afterwards; It must mean that she remained perpetually pregnant! "Read it with comprehension!" instead of cognitive dissonance.
Revelation was gradual until Christ came, after which it was revealed in full.
Agreed the canon of Scripture is compete!
They established the means by which that was done, in a council of elders.
Again, the canon of Scripture is complete!
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

This verse says nothing about doctrine developed by church fathers.
Just because their teaching does not agree with your interpretation of Scripture, doesn't mean your interpretation is correct.
Except their interpretation on the perpetual virginity of Mary, isn't even in the Scripture!
Show from Scripture were Joseph was married before and had other children.
But you do?
The real issue here isn't about whether I've interpreted Scripture correctly. It's about the fact that what you believe isn't even in the Scripture.

So, since your doctrine is assumed out of silence regarding Scripture. The best you can say is that you don't know if Mary ever had other children or remained a perpetual virgin.
 
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prodromos

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Mary was pregnant until Jesus was born. But... since "until" means nothing about her condition afterwards; It must mean that she remained perpetually pregnant! "Read it with comprehension!" instead of cognitive dissonance.
Her pregnancy was not the subject of the "until" clause. And on that bit of ridiculous hubris from you, I believe we are done.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Her pregnancy was not the subject of the "until" clause. And on that bit of ridiculous hubris from you, I believe we are done.
Prove from Scripture that Joseph was married prior to being married to Mary!

If Joseph never produced children with Mary; there'd be no reason to state that he "didn't know her until....".
 
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