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There is only 2 options, Life formed because of God, or by random chance from non-living matter
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Firstlightdawn
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We are talking about cause and effect. WE see the effect, we guess at the cause.
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What exactly do you think you detect from a soul?
And, BTW, I was just following your lead.
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Firstlightdawn
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I don’t think about it in terms of soul at all. A soul is individual, and souls don’t merge or synchronize. What I think about is a kind of universal consciousness — the way people can recognize the same truth at the same time. You see hints of that in To Kill a Mockingbird. People don’t align because their souls blend together. They align when their individual souls respond to the same truth. You maybe thinking of something different from me.
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Firstlightdawn
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So you do not see us as individuals? I am wondering about the Kingdom age because that is something that is collective and may not be individual at all.
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Hans Blaster
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Are souls a product of the person? Do they exist outside bodies? Do they survive death? Do they interact with the flesh or are they part of it?
[I ask because "soul" is a very nebulous word as used by many people.]
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expos4ever
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I know this. My question should have been more precise. How do you know that we have an immaterial soul? My point is that I believe scripture does not teach you that we have a soul in the sense that most of people think. Most people conceive of the soul and the kind of non-physical thing that inhabits the body. I see no evidence for this view from scripture.
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Firstlightdawn
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You keep trying to drag Plato into a discussion that belongs in Genesis. I’m talking about the Bible, not Greek philosophy. Genesis 2:7 uses the Hebrew word nephesh, and nephesh does not mean a detachable, ghost‑like “soul” the way Plato described it. The text says the man became a living nephesh. It does not say the man “received” a soul. It says the whole living person is the nephesh. If we’re going to talk about what the Bible actually says, we have to start with the Hebrew word in the verse — nephesh — not Plato’s concept.
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Firstlightdawn
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You are doing the same thing, so I will give you the same answer. You keep trying to drag Plato into a discussion that belongs in Genesis. I’m talking about the Bible, not Greek philosophy. Genesis 2:7 uses the Hebrew word nephesh, and nephesh does not mean a detachable, ghost‑like “soul” the way Plato described it. The text says the man became a living nephesh. It does not say the man “received” a soul. It says the whole living person is the nephesh. If we’re going to talk about what the Bible actually says, we have to start with the Hebrew word in the verse — nephesh — not Plato’s concept.
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Firstlightdawn
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Same thing,same answer the discussion has NOTHING to do with Plato. 'we are talking about the Hebrew word used in this passage. We need to study HEBREW if we want to study our Bible.
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Hans Blaster
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I is? I asked you a few questions about "souls" to clarify what you meant
That seems unlikely. I don't know Plato's philosophy, nor do I care about it.
Since I don't read Hebrew, or remember what this reference to 2:7 might be, none of this has any meaning to me.
I think I may have asked my questions to the wrong post, let's try this one of yours (it likely inspired me to inquire):
Since you have made some claims about souls and science before we can discuss them I need a better understanding of your soul concept and how science may or may not be able to detect one let me ask these questions again. You can feel free to say "no, that is not what I mean", but references to Jewish theology and Greek philosophy won't help as I don't know them. (I have my own ideas about what a Christian soul concept is, but I doubt you would take my understanding of what the priests tried to teach me as definitive.)
Here are my questions:
Are souls a product of the person?
Do they exist outside bodies?
Do they survive death?
Do they interact with the flesh or are they part of it?
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Firstlightdawn
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I’m trying to answer your question at the level you’re actually asking it. From the start, I was talking about the Hebrew term that shifts the story from mankind as a whole to the individual Adam. That shift matters, because it’s the same pattern we see in real life: a collective becomes a person. If you want the Sunday‑school cartoon version, that’s one conversation. If you want the real‑world version, that’s another. A good example is in To Kill a Mockingbird, where a hostile crowd breaks down into individuals once one person is addressed directly. I’m using examples like that because they show the exact dynamic you’re asking about.
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Firstlightdawn
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I did not make any claims at all. You need to stick to the facts and quit making things up.
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Firstlightdawn
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This is part of the oral tradition that runs alongside the written Bible. Groups like the Hasidic preserve this very carefully. When you study Hebrew, this is one of the first structural things you learn: the language itself marks the moment when “humanity” becomes “the individual Adam.” That shift isn’t a cartoon version of the story. It’s the real interpretive framework that has been handed down for centuries. I’m bringing this up because it directly answers what you asked. The written text gives the narrative, but the oral tradition explains how the narrative works, how the categories shift, and why the story moves from the collective to the person.
Please do not attack Judah. Every Holocaust survivor I’ve ever listened to warned against using language or attitudes that disrespect the people of Judah. That history is too serious to play with. I’m asking for basic respect, nothing more.
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Firstlightdawn
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