how far is trump to go for greenland

MarkSB said:

Trump's typical recipe for things like this is:
1. Make obnoxious statements and threats to attract a bunch of attention.
2. Say that he "made a deal" and withdraw the threats. But the "deal" is not a written one, and sometimes no details are given at all.
3. Gloat about how he just made a spectacular accomplishment and changed the world, even when in reality nothing (or very little) has changed.

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Exactly!

Or worse, declare 'victory' when he was backed into a corner by Carney and the EU, and humiliated on the Davos international stage into completely reversing his position! "Attack it militarily" into never attacking it at all.

So while he declared 'victory' on the outside - we know what was really going on inside!

MarkSB said:

What continues to disappoint is that a certain segment of the American public has a propensity to believe him and gloat along with him when he pulls this nonsense. If it's a high percentage of the public that falls for this, that doesn't bode well for America.

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As an Australian looking on, this particularly disturbs me.
The post-truth way MAGA types go along with the ramblings of this madman seems to operate with the dynamics of a cult.

MarkSB said:

In other posts, you were telling people that they shouldn't believe Trump - but yet it seems like you believe he has accomplished quite a bit during this latest charade.

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The world stage is LAUGHING at Trump's declaration of victory.
He achieved exactly ZERO - except for making NATO look weak and divided.
Of course, a weak NATO really serves America's interests right now, with China and Russia watching on with interest!
(That was sarcasm for any MAGA types reading - just in case you didn't get the 3 face-palm emojis at the end.)

MarkSB said:

You may have recognized his bluff for what it was, but you're not recognizing the false claims of victory which normally follow.

Even if there is some kind of agreement struck within the next 6-12 months to set up mining operations in Greenland, it might be something that would have been established anyway

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There was already a military conversation happening between these powers (re Golden Dome), and as you point out, who can keep up with the various negotiations in the world of big tech with mining firms?

But as an old peak oil activist, I can point out that Greenland's frozen environment does NOT make for easier cheaper rare earths. There are probably better resources for these things in the USA somewhere? Or even if not in the same parts-per-million (PPM), the fact that it is WARMER there might make them easier to obtain? And if not, there's always us Aussies. We have some of the most advanced mining kit on the planet, and I'm guessing would probably be one of the cheaper first world nations to make a deal with (but not competing with China, where there are zero environmental regulations and minimal safety regulations. No one can compete with that!)

Bottom line? Rare earths are EVERYWHERE - they're just 'rare' in the sense that they're low PPM. And they're incredibly energy intensive and environmentally destructive to mine.

MarkSB said:

(without Trump), or which could have been achieved through different methods.

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Exactly!

MarkSB said:

But that won't stop Trump and his cohort from trying to sell to everyone that the threat of tariffs is what did it, and is the only means by which it could be achieved.

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The guy has a really bad case of NPD. He lies and lies until HE believes it - as his super-fragile ego demands he maintain this false worldview that HE is the smartest, most powerful, most attractive guy in the room. (With the best haircut and hottest wife, etc etc etc. How many times has he rambled on about other candidate's wives?)

All future Presidential candidates should be assesses for NPD and automatically removed from the ballot under the 25th if they have it.

After the sheer market chaos of this buffoon's tariffs and military threats, Trump is just maddening to listen to! The guy is so dense, and yet has the world's worst case of Dunning-Kruegers! I think I have PTSD every time I hear his voice in the Aussie news!

Oh boo hoo! Now Trump is insulting NATO troops - as if we didn't see that coming!

NATO and the EU and Carney said "No!" How dare they!

Pommer said:

It’s a return to 19th century global dynamics (with a bit less imperialism).
Why is this “good”?

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Trump has returned America to that.

But Carney is saying if a coalition of the willing get together and do our own version of 'international law' - and actually sign on to various organisations sincerely - it could be a good thing. That's how I understood it. That Canada and Australia and the UK and especially Europe are going to 'friend-shore' and increase trade amongst more reliable, rules-based trading partners.

As the host of the UN, MAGA electing Trump a second time 'ruptured' the current global order.
That does not mean there cannot be a new one.

In fact, it might be better, more sincere.

America never subjected itself to 'international law' - and never signed up to the ICJ etc. It was always highly hypocritical every time an American President touted 'international law' as a reason XYZ could happen.

Trump's behaviour actually seems to have so incensed the EU that voices for Federalising into a more streamlined, cohesive whole are getting louder. You probably know more about this next historical analogy than I do - but isn't there a historical argument that the USA Federalised because the governing bodies of all those independent colonies took on so much debt fighting the British that it required a new form of Federal taxation?

Federation by debt. That's the direction the EU seems to be travelling down. They currently are a "Confederation of Federations". That means a lot of duplication or roles, inefficiency, and a slower decision making process. But if they streamline into a truly Federal nation called Europe, they will be able to do so many things differently. Their 500 million citizens could all contribute to a much more streamlined European Army. They would finally have the cohesive structures to project truly frightening spearhead forces into operation.

While Trump is vastly oversimplifying the NATO role in Afghanistan, and minimising their sacrifice and contribution, there IS some historical truth to what he is saying. The many different national priorities in the EU create a view of NATO forces that they always hide in background roles. That's just not true - but it is true of the roles SOME nations within the EU and NATO play.

Anyway, bottom line?

I don't know what's going to happen. But I see Trump as a catalyst for change unlike we've had since the Cold War.

And as big as you guys are, that change has the potential to somewhat sideline the USA - even if it's "just" Canada moving you from 75% of their trade down to 50% or less. Bit by bit, this is going to HURT!

Waaaa! Waaaa! I want to be the boss!

Trump's tanty's don't intimidate.

Carney DOES!


Carney is probably the only person on the planet that has run the Central Banks for two countries!

When he speaks about economic matters, the world listens.

When he speaks about economic tyranny dressed up as 'economic integration as a weapon of coercion!" - the world listens.

When he declares the 'rules based international order' dead - ruptured beyond repair - the world listens.

In fact, it was pretty much always dead. America didn't want to abide by the very rules it promoted in hosting the UN.

But now that we are shaking off Big Brother, we might have a chance.

We might create a rules based economic order that actually WORKS! Where members MUST abide by international law, or be excluded from the club.

So thank you America, for electing someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. If you want to save your own nation you'll invoke the 25th, but right now, many of us are beyond caring.

We'll take it from here.

"Thank you for your attention to this matter."

eclipsenow said:

America never subjected itself to 'international law' - and never signed up to the ICJ etc. It was always highly hypocritical every time an American President touted 'international law' as a reason XYZ could happen.

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Sometimes the USA behaved like a rogue state.

eclipsenow said:

While Trump is vastly oversimplifying the NATO role in Afghanistan, and minimising their sacrifice and contribution, there IS some historical truth to what he is saying. The many different national priorities in the EU create a view of NATO forces that they always hide in background roles. That's just not true - but it is true of the roles SOME nations within the EU and NATO play.

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Things are more complicated. I start with a comparison of two wars in the 20th century:

• In the late 1940's and the 1950's, the UK won a guerilla war in Malaya (part of today Malaysia).
• In the 1960's and early 1970's the USA lost the Vietnam war.

Both wars have several similarities: Agent Orange, Napalm, centralization of smaller villages into larger ones, and, of course, an alien nation (Britain resp. USA) in an Asian country.
There are differences, one is: While General Harold Briggs did much to win the hearts of the Malayan people, along with the military operations, the USA focused in military strength and lost any goodwill of the ordinary Vietnamese. Indeed, before Briggs got the Malayan command, the UK was not successful …

One lesson: If you only rely on military strength, you may lose the war against the guerilla. But trying to be gentle to the people you are supposed to fight for, i.e. some softer way to act, may be (mis)interpreted as »hide in the background«.

Right-wing »hawk« will never understand that.

The White House posted an AI image of Donald Trump walking hand in hand with a penguin:


Just to clarify, is it Greenland or the Antarctic the USA is interested in? I don't believe Penguins are to be found in Greenland.

Kind Regards.

lismore said:

Just to clarify, is it Greenland or the Antarctic the USA is interested in?

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Like the president can differentiate the two…

lismore said:

The White House posted an AI image of Donald Trump walking hand in hand with a penguin:

Trump, 79, Revives Greenland Fantasy With Absurd AI Post

After a week of geopolitical chaos that appeared to put Greenland to rest, the White House revived President Donald Trump’s fixation with an AI-generated colonial fantasy. The image, posted to the White House’s official X account, shows Trump marching across a frozen landscape toward Greenland...

uk.news.yahoo.com

Just to clarify, is it Greenland or the Antarctic the USA is interested in? I don't believe Penguins are to be found in Greenland.

Kind Regards.

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Well, you need a reminder of the last year.
April 2025, Trump announces his tariffs. All nations bow but one:

December 2025, tensions around Greenland climb. One nation swims to the rescue:

lismore said:

The White House posted an AI image of Donald Trump walking hand in hand with a penguin:

Trump, 79, Revives Greenland Fantasy With Absurd AI Post

After a week of geopolitical chaos that appeared to put Greenland to rest, the White House revived President Donald Trump’s fixation with an AI-generated colonial fantasy. The image, posted to the White House’s official X account, shows Trump marching across a frozen landscape toward Greenland...

uk.news.yahoo.com

Just to clarify, is it Greenland or the Antarctic the USA is interested in? I don't believe Penguins are to be found in Greenland.

Kind Regards.

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It's a King Penguin from Antarctica!
Then I watched the Penguin Victory march songs - and all I could think was "Boy, Ai has improved in a year!"

Although YouTube kept going, and played the whole medley. I saw the Penguins taking Mars version, and that was fun.

lismore said:

The White House posted an AI image of Donald Trump walking hand in hand with a penguin:

Just to clarify, is it Greenland or the Antarctic the USA is interested in?

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He thought it was Iceland a couple of days ago. Maybe the picture is to show that the penguins on that deserted island on which he imposed tariffs have made up with him. Maybe he reduced those tariffs. Who knows... That would maks more sense than anything to do with Greenland.

Bradskii said:

He thought it was Iceland a couple of days ago. Maybe the picture is to show that the penguins on that deserted island on which he imposed tariffs have made up with him. Maybe he reduced those tariffs. Who knows... That would maks more sense than anything to do with Greenland.

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We live in strange times indeed!