How Long have Humans Lived on Earth?

David Lamb · Wednesday at 1:33 AM

Firstlightdawn said:
I work with precision because God’s actions in Scripture are exact, intentional, and perfectly timed. When I say God is “in the moment,” I mean that His works in history are deliberate, not approximate. That’s not meant as a criticism of anyone else’s approach — it’s simply the way the Bible presents God’s timing and decisions. I’m trying to reflect that same clarity when I talk about these passages. Our understanding becomes clearer when we recognize how exact and precise God is in His actions.

Or are you asking about Bishop Ussher’s work on the genealogies in the Bible.

I fully agree that God's actions are exact, intentional, and perfectly timed. He doesn't always reveal His exact timings to us. What I am asking you is where in the bible to you find such things as an exact date for the fall of Adam and Eve into sin, or even an exact date for the crucifixion of Jesus (though I would say there is more information about the timing of that than of the fall, but not an exact date.)? If no date is given for the Fall or the Crucifixion, how can you say that there was exactly four thousand years between them?

David Lamb · Wednesday at 1:35 AM

Firstlightdawn said:
I do not know where you are getting this from. It is nothing I said.

Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood your words: "and His sacrifice brought redemption not only to Adam and Eve but to all of their descendants, including the Gentiles who lived after His sacrifice."

Firstlightdawn · Wednesday at 1:46 AM

David Lamb said:
Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood your words: "and His sacrifice brought redemption not only to Adam and Eve but to all of their descendants, including the Gentiles who lived after His sacrifice."

Yes, sorry about that — I didn’t list my references earlier. I keep a lot of books on hand because people often ask questions that are addressed in those sources. Swamidass explains that everyone alive today is descended from Adam and Eve, while the biblical story still distinguishes Hebrews and Gentiles as different covenant groups. That distinction seems to relate more to the old and new covenants than to genetics. And honestly, don’t you believe everyone is descended from Adam and Eve? I’m simply trying to reflect how both Scripture and the scholarship describe those categories.

There are many scriptures that distinguish between the children of Israel and the Gentiles. The Bible uses those terms to describe covenant groups, not biological categories. Israel is the people brought into the Old Covenant, and the Gentiles are the nations outside that covenant. That distinction shows up all through the Old Testament and continues into the New Testament until the gospel is opened to all nations.

David Lamb · Wednesday at 1:50 AM

Firstlightdawn said:
Yes, sorry about that — I didn’t list my references earlier. I keep a lot of books on hand because people often ask questions that are addressed in those sources. Swamidass explains that everyone alive today is descended from Adam and Eve, while the biblical story still distinguishes Hebrews and Gentiles as different covenant groups. That distinction seems to relate more to the old and new covenants than to genetics. And honestly, don’t you believe everyone is descended from Adam and Eve? I’m simply trying to reflect how both Scripture and the scholarship describe those categories.

Thanks. Yes, I do believe that everyone is descended from Adam and Eve. However, I don't believe that every descendant of Adam and Eve will be redeemed, but only those (whether Jews ore Gentiles) who by God's grace believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Firstlightdawn · Wednesday at 2:05 AM

David Lamb said:
Thanks. Yes, I do believe that everyone is descended from Adam and Eve. However, I don't believe that every descendant of Adam and Eve will be redeemed, but only those (whether Jews ore Gentiles) who by God's grace believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

God desires the redemption of everyone, but each person still has to respond to His grace. As Scripture says, “God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9).

Dale · Saturday at 2:56 PM

Firstlightdawn said:
You missed the boat. Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago, and the biblical record gives us a continuous genealogy running from Eve all the way to Mary.

You did not respond to any of the facts I presented in the OP. Jesus did not tell us to ignore the evidence of our senses. Is there nothing that we can learn from history and archaeology?

There are many ways that we know that the Bible is not a history book. Abraham lived about 2,000 BC or about 4,000 years BP (Before Present). The Great Pyramid was built about 4,500 years ago, so the Great Pyramid was about 500 years old when Abraham went to Egypt. Yet Genesis makes no mention of the pyramids or the Sphinx.

Dale · Saturday at 2:57 PM

Firstlightdawn said:
Jesus died at Calvary exactly 4,000 years after Adam and Eve sinned, and His sacrifice brought redemption not only to Adam and Eve but to all of their descendants, including the Gentiles who lived after His sacrifice.

If you can really calculate God’s timing so precisely, you should be able to calculate the time of the Second Coming. Everyone who has tried to do that has been wrong. Jesus told us not to try, not even the angels of heaven know the exact time of the Second Coming.

Dale · Saturday at 2:59 PM

Firstlightdawn said:
I work with precision because God’s actions in Scripture are exact, intentional, and perfectly timed. When I say God is “in the moment,” I mean that His works in history are deliberate, not approximate. That’s not meant as a criticism of anyone else’s approach — it’s simply the way the Bible presents God’s timing and decisions. I’m trying to reflect that same clarity when I talk about these passages. Our understanding becomes clearer when we recognize how exact and precise God is in His actions.

Or are you asking about Bishop Ussher’s work on the genealogies in the Bible.

Bishop Ussher’s calculations have been lost, we do not have them. No one knows how he came up with the date of 4004 BC for the creation of the world. Your assumption about the age of the earth is no shared by everyone who studies the Old Testament. Jewish scholars reached different a different conclusion. They decided that the date of creation was 3761 BC, which makes our present year 5786 on the Jewish calendar.

<< This calendar is used within Jewish communities for religious purposes and is one of two official calendars in Israel. In the Hebrew calendar, the day begins at sunset. The calendar's epoch, corresponding to the calculated date of the world's creation, is equivalent to sunset on the Julian proleptic calendar date 6 October 3761 BCE.[2] The new year begins at Rosh Hashanah, in Tishrei. Anno Mundi 5786 (meaning the 5,786th year since the creation of the world) ... >>

The calculations of early Christians is even more at variance from the assumptions of modern creationists. The decided that the date of creation was 5509 BC. If that is the case, we are living in the 7534th year from the creation.

<< The Creation Era of Constantinople was observed by Christian communities within the Eastern Roman Empire as part of the Byzantine Calendar and retained by Eastern Orthodoxy until 1728. Its Year One, marking the assumed date of creation, was September 1, 5509 BC, to August 31, 5508 BC. This would make the current year (AD 2026) 7534 (7535 after September 1). >>

Source

Anno Mundi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Firstlightdawn · Saturday at 5:29 PM

Dale said:
Bishop Ussher’s calculations have been lost, we do not have them.

Everyone agrees that the math from Adam to Abraham is straightforward. The genealogies in Genesis make that part simple, and every major tradition places Abraham roughly 4,000 years ago, even if they dispute the exact year. Everyone also agrees that David lived about 3,000 years ago.

We do not know the exact year Jesus was born, but the one fixed point is the beginning of His ministry at His baptism. The dates for Herod are well‑established, so the general window for Jesus’ birth is secure even if the precise year is debated.

The 4,000 years from Adam to Jesus matters because it represents the entire span of their generations. That is why the following 2,000 years are understood as the time of the Gentiles.

Bishop Ussher’s chronology fits this perfectly. His work is not a casual estimate; it is a massive, 2,000‑page reference volume. It functions more like an encyclopedia than a simple timeline. He used ancient historical sources that no longer exist, and he consolidated that information into his book.

In other words, Ussher’s chronology is not guesswork. It is a careful synthesis of materials that are no longer available to us, which is why his 4,000‑year calculation from Adam to Christ remains so influential.

Firstlightdawn · Saturday at 5:50 PM

Dale said:
even the angels of heaven know the exact time of the Second Coming.

The only external marker I pay attention to is the Apophis asteroid. If that turns out not to be meaningful, then I’m in the same position as everyone else: watching, waiting, and admitting that none of us have perfect information.

What I do know is the biblical structure. The generations from Adam to Jesus add up to 4,000 years. The time of the Gentiles is 2,000 years. That puts us very close to the end of the Church Age and the beginning of the Kingdom Age.

The part no one agrees on is how the transition happens. Scripture gives the pattern, but not the exact mechanics. So I hold the timeline with confidence and the details with humility. I don’t claim to know more than what is written.

Genesis 22:4 “Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.”

God is very exact and very precise. The timing between when Abraham placed his son on the altar and when God placed His Son on the altar follows that same precision. It is this exactness that shows God is the One directing history. There may be a Planck‑level moment before and after, but in the center of it all is God Himself.

Only God knows the exact and precise moment because He is that exact and precise moment. He is the point where all of history meets. This is the moment that connects Adam, Abraham, David, and Jesus. That moment is not vague or approximate. It is exact and precise, because it is held in God Himself.

Firstlightdawn · Saturday at 6:44 PM

Dale said:
Everything we know about the history of humans on earth contradicts the claim that the earth could be only 6,000 years old.

Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago. The Bible is talking about genertions and you are talking about DNA. They are not the same. These are the dates. Day 1: 8.000 billion Day 2: 8 ÷ 1.98 = 4.040 billion Day 3: 4.040 ÷ 1.98 = 2.040 billion Day 4: 2.040 ÷ 1.98 = 1.030 billion Day 5: 1.030 ÷ 1.98 = 0.520 billion Day 6: 0.520 ÷ 1.98 = 0.263 billion

God created mankind on day six beginning 0.263 billion years ago. If we use a cone we can see how exact and precise all of this is. Each day in Genesis is 1,000 years also. So we see the ice age ended and the age we live in began 12,000 years ago. I am not quite sure how the 7 th day works into all of this.

We are told the LIon will lie down with the lamb. So it is God's plan to put an end to predators. We see this when hunting dogs became hurding dogs.

Dale · Sunday at 1:20 PM

Firstlightdawn said:
You missed the boat. Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago, and the biblical record gives us a continuous genealogy running from Eve all the way to Mary.

Firstlightdawn said:
Jesus died at Calvary exactly 4,000 years after Adam and Eve sinned, and His sacrifice brought redemption not only to Adam and Eve but to all of their descendants, including the Gentiles who lived after His sacrifice.

There is a church near my home where the pastor preaches that there is creationism and there is atheism. Anything else is a fraud and a farce. I have seen the same man stand in the pulpit and say, “What happened to the young people we used to have?”

Pew Foundation polls say that the most common reason people give for leaving Christianity is that Christians refuse to accept known fact.

Creationism is driving decent people away from God and out of the church. Is that what God wants?

Dale · Sunday at 1:24 PM

Firstlightdawn said:
You missed the boat. Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago, and the biblical record gives us a continuous genealogy running from Eve all the way to Mary.

Firstlightdawn said:
Jesus died at Calvary exactly 4,000 years after Adam and Eve sinned, and His sacrifice brought redemption not only to Adam and Eve but to all of their descendants, including the Gentiles who lived after His sacrifice.

Psalm 104 is a creation story in its own right. It gives us a creation story with no mention of days and no mention of Adam and Eve. That is one sign that the “days” in Genesis One are not as important as you think, and also that Adam and Eve in Genesis 2-3 are not as important as you think.

Highlights from Psalm 104: (I am using the NIV.)

He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out
the heavens like a tent … Verse 2

He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. Verse 5

Psalm 104 shows us a God who cares about His creation and continues to create.

When you [God] send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew
the face of the earth.Verse 30

Firstlightdawn · Sunday at 3:27 PM

David Lamb said:
I fully agree that God's actions are exact, intentional, and perfectly timed. He doesn't always reveal His exact timings to us. What I am asking you is where in the bible to you find such things as an exact date for the fall of Adam and Eve into sin, or even an exact date for the crucifixion of Jesus (though I would say there is more information about the timing of that than of the fall, but not an exact date.)? If no date is given for the Fall or the Crucifixion, how can you say that there was exactly four thousand years between them?

Dale said:
He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out
the heavens like a tent …

Yes, this is exactly what I am talking about. This is a ringer, yet people want to claim God does not stretch out the heavens. They do not understand their Bible and a lot of Psalm 104 I do not understand.

Thanks for sharing that with us. I got distracted, but I am looking into this.

Dale · Sunday at 9:26 PM

Firstlightdawn said:
Everyone agrees that the math from Adam to Abraham is straightforward. The genealogies in Genesis make that part simple, and every major tradition places Abraham roughly 4,000 years ago, even if they dispute the exact year. Everyone also agrees that David lived about 3,000 years ago.

We do not know the exact year Jesus was born, but the one fixed point is the beginning of His ministry at His baptism. The dates for Herod are well‑established, so the general window for Jesus’ birth is secure even if the precise year is debated.

The 4,000 years from Adam to Jesus matters because it represents the entire span of their generations. That is why the following 2,000 years are understood as the time of the Gentiles.

Bishop Ussher’s chronology fits this perfectly. His work is not a casual estimate; it is a massive, 2,000‑page reference volume. It functions more like an encyclopedia than a simple timeline. He used ancient historical sources that no longer exist, and he consolidated that information into his book.

In other words, Ussher’s chronology is not guesswork. It is a careful synthesis of materials that are no longer available to us, which is why his 4,000‑year calculation from Adam to Christ remains so influential.

I have talked to an ultraconservative Baptist who had studied anicent languages. He thought it was obvious that the long lives given for people in Genesis came about because the anicent Israelites showed respect by exaggerating their ages. In many cases they just added an extra zero. Instead of saying that Adam lived until he was 93, they say that he lived to be 930.

You are taking Bishop Ussher to be the authority. On the contrary, his calculations have been found to be not only controversial but flatly wrong. According to the Crossroads Baptist Church, “we now know that he was working with faulty data and a simple lack of information.” The date that one of the Babylonian Kings ascended to the throne “remains the only date either used or calculated by Ussher that was precisely correct.”

An example of Ussher’s errors: “Ussher deduced that Terah, who lived to 205 years, died before Abram migrated to Canaan at age 75, and thus he inserted a 60-year span between the births of Nahor and Haran and the birth of Abram.”
Where do these errors come from?

“...immediate skepticism comes from the fact that even within ancient Judaism there were multiple schemes, long before Ussher’s work. At least part of this is due to the vastly different genealogical numbers found in the Hebrew Bible vs. the LXX. As just one minor example, the Hebrew Bible states that Seth was 105 years old when Enosh was born, but the LXX gives 205 years.”

They conclude: “However, most young-earth creationists do not follow Ussher’s chronology, nor is it in any way necessary to a young-earth view.”

So most creationists don’t believe in Bishop Ussher’s timeline. I am not a creationist and I do not believe it is possible to calculate the age of the earth or the age of the human race from anything in the Bible. I am putting this forward to show that those who have tried have found many pitfalls and cannot reach agreement.

Source
Why Ussher’s Chronology is Wrong
This is the Crossroads Bible Church

Dale · Sunday at 9:31 PM

Firstlightdawn said:
Everyone agrees that the math from Adam to Abraham is straightforward. The genealogies in Genesis make that part simple, and every major tradition places Abraham roughly 4,000 years ago, even if they dispute the exact year. Everyone also agrees that David lived about 3,000 years ago.

We do not know the exact year Jesus was born, but the one fixed point is the beginning of His ministry at His baptism. The dates for Herod are well‑established, so the general window for Jesus’ birth is secure even if the precise year is debated.

The 4,000 years from Adam to Jesus matters because it represents the entire span of their generations. That is why the following 2,000 years are understood as the time of the Gentiles.

Bishop Ussher’s chronology fits this perfectly. His work is not a casual estimate; it is a massive, 2,000‑page reference volume. It functions more like an encyclopedia than a simple timeline. He used ancient historical sources that no longer exist, and he consolidated that information into his book.

In other words, Ussher’s chronology is not guesswork. It is a careful synthesis of materials that are no longer available to us, which is why his 4,000‑year calculation from Adam to Christ remains so influential.

Firstlightdawn said:
The only external marker I pay attention to is the Apophis asteroid. If that turns out not to be meaningful, then I’m in the same position as everyone else: watching, waiting, and admitting that none of us have perfect information.

What I do know is the biblical structure. The generations from Adam to Jesus add up to 4,000 years. The time of the Gentiles is 2,000 years. That puts us very close to the end of the Church Age and the beginning of the Kingdom Age.

The part no one agrees on is how the transition happens. Scripture gives the pattern, but not the exact mechanics. So I hold the timeline with confidence and the details with humility. I don’t claim to know more than what is written.

Genesis 22:4 “Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.”

God is very exact and very precise. The timing between when Abraham placed his son on the altar and when God placed His Son on the altar follows that same precision. It is this exactness that shows God is the One directing history. There may be a Planck‑level moment before and after, but in the center of it all is God Himself.

Only God knows the exact and precise moment because He is that exact and precise moment. He is the point where all of history meets. This is the moment that connects Adam, Abraham, David, and Jesus. That moment is not vague or approximate. It is exact and precise, because it is held in God Himself.

In two posts, you have used the phrse “the time of the gentiles.” There is no such phrase known to Christiaity. I don’t know what this means and I don’t think it means anything.

Firstlightdawn · Sunday at 9:38 PM

Dale said:
I do not believe it is possible to calculate the age of the earth or the age of the human race from anything in the Bible.

Swamidass book is recent and that is the one you want to look at in regards to this.

Bishop Ussher’s major chronology work was first published in 1650, which shows how widely it’s been read and how much support his work has had over the centuries.

No one has heard of your referance and it will soon disappear into oblivion while Usher's book continues.

Firstlightdawn · Sunday at 9:42 PM

Dale said:
In two posts, you have used the phrse “the time of the gentiles.” There is no such phrase known to Christiaity. I don’t know what this means and I don’t think it means anything.

Do you like any of these?
• the Church Age • the Age of Grace • the Age of the Nations • the Present Age • the Gospel Age • the Age of the Spirit • the Age of the Called‑Out Ones • the Age of the Assembly • the Age of the Kingdom‑Not‑Yet • the Age of Witness • the Age of the Harvest • the Age of the Scattered • the Age of the Invitation • the Age of Mercy • the Age Between the Advents • the Age of the Open Door • the Age of the Great Commission • the Age of the Branches • the Age of the Fullness of the Nations

Time‑period names • the Present Age • the Current Age • the Age Between the Advents • the Age of the Nations • the Age of the Gentiles (your original term) • the Age of the World’s Fullness • the Age of the Scattered • the Age of the Harvest

Theological names • the Church Age • the Age of Grace • the Gospel Age • the Age of the Spirit • the Age of Mercy • the Age of Witness • the Age of the Great Commission • the Age of the Called‑Out Ones • the Age of the Assembly

Kingdom‑framework names • the Already‑Not‑Yet Age • the Age of the Kingdom‑Not‑Yet • the Age of Waiting • the Age of Preparation • the Age of Invitation

Historical‑literary names • the Christian Era • the Messianic Era (in some frameworks) • the Era of the Nations • the Era of the Branches

Firstlightdawn · Sunday at 10:14 PM

Dale said:
It gives us a creation story with no mention of days and no mention of Adam and Eve.

psaml 104 1 "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty." Soul here is the Hebrew word I keep talking about "Nephesh".

Nephesh = a living being, a breathing creature, a life that is alive because God gave breath.

When David says, “Bless the LORD, O my soul,” he’s not talking about a detachable inner part. He’s calling his entire living self — breath, body, mind, strength — to praise the One who gave him life.

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How Long have Humans Lived on Earth?

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