-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
The Saving results of the Death of Christ !
- Thread starter Brightfame52
- Start date
- Dec 14, 2020
- 5,384
- 595
- 68
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
The results of the saving death of Christ is redemptive and so it effects the gathering of all Gods chosen people from around the world Ps 107:1-3
O give thanks unto the Lord, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
2 Let the redeemed of the Lord say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;
3 And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, from the north, and from the south.
Remember the high priest words in Jn 11 how that Christ should die and gather the children of God scattered abroad, and not just from the nation israel ? Jn 11:50-52
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
This gathering together of the people of God is the fruit and success of the redemptive , saving death of Christ.
O give thanks unto the Lord, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
2 Let the redeemed of the Lord say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;
3 And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, from the north, and from the south.
Remember the high priest words in Jn 11 how that Christ should die and gather the children of God scattered abroad, and not just from the nation israel ? Jn 11:50-52
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
This gathering together of the people of God is the fruit and success of the redemptive , saving death of Christ.
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 5,384
- 595
- 68
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Its of Faith so to be of Grace
Rom 4:16 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, Many will say that Faith/Believing isn't a work because...
www.christianforums.com
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 5,384
- 595
- 68
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Thats the same thing, you dont agree with me. I already discussed faiths role in salvation in this discussion, that lets me know that you also not paying attention, and you disgree. Then you going to turn around and ask me to explain more ? Get real Explaining takes me time and effort which you dismiss in disagreement because you can.
Upvote
0
- Sep 18, 2010
- 7,604
- 2,697
- Country
- Sweden
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
I'm posting relevant verses that IMO oppose your understanding in your OP (and I have explained why), but you avoid them. You post a lot of other verses and explain them, but not the verses I have asked for. As long as you aren't willing to engage those verses directly, I'm not interested in going further. God bless!
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 5,384
- 595
- 68
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Look, Im not wasting my time laboring in the word for you. Read my posts, that took labor
Upvote
0
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
- Dec 18, 2017
- 15,918
- 10,566
- 79
- Country
- New Zealand
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Its of Faith so to be of Grace
Rom 4:16 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, Many will say that Faith/Believing isn't a work because...
Faith is the assurance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen.
Faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ...
By Grace you are saved through faith - not of yourselves - it is a gift from God.
It is not something we do, it is a gift we are given.
Unbelief is refusing what we have heard and rejecting the gift and the giver.
Yet - when we are faithless He is faithful for He cannot deny Himself.
To say "I believe faith saves, not Christ..." is a nonsense - as the two are inseparable.
For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
Upvote
0
- Sep 18, 2010
- 7,604
- 2,697
- Country
- Sweden
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
True! Separating Christ from faith goes both ways. Christ saves, and faith is the means by which His saving work is received. it's not either or, it's both.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Humble-Servant
Member
Would you say that Christ only saves those who have faith?; if so then salvation depends on ones ability to produce faith. This idea doesn't seem right, as it seems to preclude those who haven't had the opportunity to study theology. We need to have solid evidence, before we can give our lives to God.
I'm wondering about the origin of faith and why some have it and others don't.
Upvote
0
- Sep 18, 2010
- 7,604
- 2,697
- Country
- Sweden
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
I would say faith is the ordinary means by which God brings people into salvation, but there are exceptions. For instance I believe young children and those without the mental capacity to believe the gospel are saved without faith.
Salvation does not depend on ones ability to produce faith, since faith is a gift from God.
It's hard to know why some come to faith in Christ and others not. It seems every person's journey to Christ is somewhat different.
Sorry for OT!
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 5,384
- 595
- 68
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
That occurs only when the person is yet unregenerate and in the flesh. When a person is regenerate all that is removed and faith is given
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 5,384
- 595
- 68
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
All for whom Christ died will be born again anew. When He died, those He died for were in union with Him, similar to how when Adam sin and died they died with him because in union with him. And so likewise when Christ was raised from the dead, they in union with Him were raised also with Him, and it will be made evident by giving them also newness of life, or the new birth.
Rom 6:4-5
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Now if we don't believe in this union with Christ, when He died, we died , when He arose with Him in union, then , if we believe in water baptism, that's what we are publicly saying, that we we were in union with Him, as He was our federal representative. And so His resurrection from the dead typifies our sure spiritual resurrection from the dead into newness of life ! So blessed are they who have part in the first resurrection! 25
Rom 6:4-5
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Now if we don't believe in this union with Christ, when He died, we died , when He arose with Him in union, then , if we believe in water baptism, that's what we are publicly saying, that we we were in union with Him, as He was our federal representative. And so His resurrection from the dead typifies our sure spiritual resurrection from the dead into newness of life ! So blessed are they who have part in the first resurrection! 25
Upvote
0
Humble-Servant
Member
I didn't expect you to give me a clean cut answer, because God has not revealed the answer to us in the Bible. But I do appreciate your honesty in admitting that "it's hard to know why some come to faith in Christ and others don't"
Ephesians 2:8 says; For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
I used to believe we are "saved by grace", through our faith, until a friend challenged my interpretation of that verse. He claims that both "grace and faith" in Eph 2:8 are gifts from God
If both grace and faith are gifts from God, then it would mean that, only those who receive these gifs are saved. And if that is the case then, what role does man play in his salvation.
I have been listening to debates on sermonaudio.com where theologians present their opposing interpretations of the gospel. I found both sides presented a strong case, both referred to scriptures which support their case.
I don't believe that Gods Word contradicts itself, but the theologians quoted scriptures which seemed to contradict each other.
The main point of contention between the two opponents are always around "predestination to salvation" and "free choice to believe" Those who believe that God chooses who is saved, claim that man doesn't have "free will".
The deeper I looked into it, the more mysterious Gods ways became to me. I'm at the point of giving up on trying to figure out why some believe while others who are equally intelligent, reject the gospel as foolishness or nonsense. One of my cousins is an associate professor in a scientific field, and he has become an Atheist.
As you rightly pointed out, God can save children who intellectually impaired. So, yes there's a lot of mystery around how people are saved.
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 5,384
- 595
- 68
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Isn't Faith/believing by grace also ? Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Upvote
0
- Sep 18, 2010
- 7,604
- 2,697
- Country
- Sweden
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
I'm not against the idea that faith is a gift. But speaking of Eph 2:8, I lean toward the understanding that Paul says: "Salvation (being saved) is the gift of God". But rightly so, faith is by grace, as Acts 18:27 says.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Humble-Servant
Member
Yes, this option was put forward during one of the debates I watched. The opponents of this view, argue that if both "grace and faith" are gifts given by God, then God must have given these gifts to everyone or He is not fair.
One side believes that everyone has a free will, so everyone can freely choose to believe or reject the gospel. They can freely choose to accept Gods free gifts of grace and faith, or reject them and reject Gods free offer of salvation.
The idea that a person would reject Gods free offer of eternal life in paradise, and choose to spend eternity in hell instead, doesn't sound right to me. I can't imagine why anyone would choose hell instead of heaven.
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 5,384
- 595
- 68
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
The regeneration of those that Christ died for, is due to Christs resurrection from the dead, Peter writes 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The prep "by" here is dia and means:
: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.
The words begotten us again is the word anagennaó:
/aná, "up, again," which intensifies 1080 /gennáō, "give birth") – properly, born-again or "born from on high."
313 /anagennáō ("born again, from above") is used twice in the NT (1 Pet 1:3,23) – both times referring to God regenerating a believer (giving a supernatural, new birth).
to produce again, beget again, beget anew; metaphorically: τινα, thoroughly to change the mind of one, so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God, 1 Peter 1:3;
Strong's Greek: 313. ἀναγεννάω (anagennaó) -- To beget again, to regenerate, to be born again
Thats were our believing comes from, thats part of the newness of life
Christs death put away our sins, hence justice satisfied, new life is given ! 25
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The prep "by" here is dia and means:
: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.
The words begotten us again is the word anagennaó:
/aná, "up, again," which intensifies 1080 /gennáō, "give birth") – properly, born-again or "born from on high."
313 /anagennáō ("born again, from above") is used twice in the NT (1 Pet 1:3,23) – both times referring to God regenerating a believer (giving a supernatural, new birth).
to produce again, beget again, beget anew; metaphorically: τινα, thoroughly to change the mind of one, so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God, 1 Peter 1:3;
Strong's Greek: 313. ἀναγεννάω (anagennaó) -- To beget again, to regenerate, to be born again
Thats were our believing comes from, thats part of the newness of life
Christs death put away our sins, hence justice satisfied, new life is given ! 25
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 5,384
- 595
- 68
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Grace is the Gift of God, so the entire phrase " For by grace are ye saved through faith; " is the Gift of God, including the Faith. None of it is of ourselves. Faith isn't a condition its provided in Salvation by Grace.
You and many others make Faith in the verse to be mans part in the salvation experience. When you do that, you fall from Grace and turn it into works.
Upvote
0
- Sep 18, 2010
- 7,604
- 2,697
- Country
- Sweden
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
Do you got some Scripture to back it up, grace being a gift?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Similar threads
