The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

Brightfame52 · Tuesday at 6:09 AM

zoidar said:
It sounds like you are saying I believe faith saves, not Christ.

Yep exactly.

Brightfame52 · Tuesday at 6:13 AM

Christ did so much more than dying for sin and making Salvation possible or available to all mankind, thats such a false teaching, However what He did do for them He died for, Gods Elect, He absolutely redeemed them unto God, by His Blood observe Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

To be redeemed to God is Salvation, or why the New Song? 25

zoidar · Tuesday at 2:51 PM

Brightfame52 said:
Yep exactly.

Well, then you’re misunderstanding my position. I do not believe faith saves instead of Christ. Scripture never says faith saves instead of Christ, it says we are saved by Christ and saved through faith.

Brightfame52 · Tuesday at 4:30 PM

zoidar said:
Well, then you’re misunderstanding my position. I do not believe faith saves instead of Christ

Yes you do in my opinion.

zoidar · Tuesday at 5:18 PM

Brightfame52 said:
Yes you do in my opinion.

You have your right to your opinion, but Paul still says that Christ saves and that we are saved through faith (Eph 2:8), justified by faith (Rom 5:1), and children of God through faith in Christ (Gal 3:26).

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
— Ephesians 2:8

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
— Romans 5:1

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
— Galatians 3:26

Brightfame52 · Tuesday at 6:59 PM

zoidar said:
You have your right to your opinion, but Paul still says that Christ saves and that we are saved through faith (Eph 2:8), justified by faith (Rom 5:1), and children of God through faith in Christ (Gal 3:26).

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
— Ephesians 2:8

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
— Romans 5:1

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
— Galatians 3:26

You condition salvation on your faith and not on Christ. Faith is your savior

zoidar · Wednesday at 1:50 PM

Brightfame52 said:
You condition salvation on your faith and not on Christ. Faith is your savior

It's Paul I'm quoting.

Paul never says faith replaces Christ, he says Christ saves, and that salvation is received through faith. Those are his words, not mine.

Brightfame52 · Wednesday at 3:57 PM

Christs saving death is saving/salvation because it gives life, and that more abundantly. Jn 10:10-11

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Notice in Vs 10 that Jesus says specifically of His Sheep, that the reason why He came into the world was so that they might [ as in purpose] have life, not to offer life to them, but so they may have it, experience it, and that in a abundant manner. Then He gives us in Vs 11 the cause and ground of that giving them life, because He giveth His Life [meaning His substitutionary death] for them the Sheep. His death for them, ensures them having [experientially] life and that more in abundant.

That word abundantly in Vs 10 is the word perissos and means:

exceeding some number or measure or rank or need
1. over and above, more than is necessary, superadded
  1. exceeding abundantly, supremely
  2. something further, more, much more than all, more plainly
2. superior, extraordinary, surpassing, uncommon
  1. pre-eminence, superiority, advantage, more eminent, more remarkable, more excellent

This is speaking of Spiritual life, so Christs death ensures the spiritual abundant life. This is also what Christ meant whe He spake these words in Jn 6:33

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

The world here is not all without exception, but His Sheep World, all without distinction. 25

Brightfame52 · Wednesday at 3:58 PM

zoidar said:
It's Paul I'm quoting.

And ? You dont understand Paul

zoidar · Wednesday at 4:13 PM

Brightfame52 said:
And ? You dont understand Paul

I've quoted Paul directly and asked for an explanation of his words. Since that hasn't happened, I'm going to step back from this discussion. If you are willing to discuss the quotes, let me know. God bless!

Brightfame52 · Thursday at 5:40 AM

zoidar said:
I've quoted Paul directly and asked for an explanation of his words. Since that hasn't happened, I'm going to step back from this discussion. If you are willing to discuss the quotes, let me know. God bless!

See post 268

The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

It sounds like you are saying I believe faith saves, not Christ. Yep exactly.

www.christianforums.com

zoidar · Thursday at 8:55 AM

Brightfame52 said:
See post 268

The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

It sounds like you are saying I believe faith saves, not Christ. Yep exactly.

www.christianforums.com

But that is not dealing with the verses in question...

Brightfame52 · Thursday at 10:55 AM

zoidar said:
But that is not dealing with the verses in question...

Its dealing with the theme of the thread. The saving results of the death of Christ. Obviously, you dont believe that.

zoidar · Thursday at 2:53 PM

Brightfame52 said:
Its dealing with the theme of the thread. The saving results of the death of Christ. Obviously, you dont believe that.

So am I. I have given you the verses that prove you wrong in your statement in your OP, but you ignore them.

Brightfame52 · Thursday at 3:19 PM

zoidar said:
So am I. I have given you the verses that prove you wrong in your statement in your OP, but you ignore them.

lol You think u have proven me wrong, but you are proving to me you don't believe in the saving death of Christ in which I give scripture to prove.

zoidar · Thursday at 7:47 PM

Brightfame52 said:
lol You think u have proven me wrong, but you are proving to me you don't believe in the saving death of Christ in which I give scripture to prove.

Ad hominem...

Brightfame52 · Friday at 11:27 AM

Both Faith and Repentance are the fruit of Christs Death and our reconciliation to Him. All for whom He died have been reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So that reconciliation will be manifested by us returning to God, which entails Faith and Repentance. Peter writes of that here 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The word returned here is the word epistrephō:

And its in the passive voice,

to cause to return, to bring back
1. to the love and obedience of God
2. to the love for the children
3. to love wisdom and righteousness

This is describing our conversion in Faith and repentance towards God. The saving death of Christ is responsible for our turning to God. 25

zoidar · Friday at 4:29 PM

Brightfame52 said:
Both Faith and Repentance are the fruit of Christs Death and our reconciliation to Him. All for whom He died have been reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So that reconciliation will be manifested by us returning to God, which entails Faith and Repentance. Peter writes of that here 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The word returned here is the word epistrephō:

And its in the passive voice,

to cause to return, to bring back

to the love and obedience of God

to the love for the children

to love wisdom and righteousness

This is describing our conversion in Faith and repentance towards God. The saving death of Christ is responsible for our turning to God. 25

Even you don't touch the specific verses I quoted, I'm happy you responded with an actual argument. I wonder though, how we can be sons of God through faith, if we were sons of God even before faith.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
— Galatians 3:26

Carl Emerson · Friday at 4:34 PM

Would B52 like to define what He understands is Faith please.

Brightfame52 · 2026-01-24T09:02:25-0600

zoidar said:
Even you don't touch the specific verses I quoted, I'm happy you responded with an actual argument. I wonder though, how we can be sons of God through faith, if we were sons of God even before faith.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
— Galatians 3:26

You dont pay attention or agree with anything I explain. Im not making no special efforts for you, you have my posts to read.

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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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