Trump caves

wing2000 · 2026-01-23T07:05:48-0600

Laodicean60 said:
Rutte:
"There was one big irritant on the on the American side with NATO, and the big irritant, since Eisenhower, was that they were spending, the US was spending, so much more than Europe was spending. Even today, the US is spending 3.5% of GDP on core defence; we are spending in Europe average 2% on defence. And here's my question to the audience. I mean, many of you, I know, criticize Donald Trump, but do you really think that without Donald Trump, eight big economies in Europe, including Spain and Italy and Belgium, Canada, by the way, also outside Europe, would have come to 2% in 2025 when they were only on 1.5% at the beginning of the year?

....and yet, Trump was not making that argument was he?

Laodicean60 · 2026-01-23T07:31:23-0600

wing2000 said:
....and yet, Trump was not making that argument was he?

Trump didn't, but Rutte did. Trump has been telling the EU to spend more on defense ever since he became President, so if the moochers were doing what they were supposed to since Eisenhower, Americans wouldn't be scolding them for being ungrateful moochers not spending enough on my defense.

wing2000 · 2026-01-23T07:48:14-0600

Laodicean60 said:
Trump didn't, but Rutte did. Trump has been telling the EU to spend more on defense ever since he became President, so if the moochers were doing what they were supposed to since Eisenhower, Americans wouldn't be scolding them for being ungrateful moochers not spending enough on my defense.

Right, Trump argued just the opposite.
It boiled down to: The U.S. is stronger if it owns Greenland. No NATO. No other countries pitching in for Arctic security.

Laodicean60 · 2026-01-23T08:29:10-0600

wing2000 said:
The U.S. is stronger it owns Greenland.

Greenland is important to the USA's national security. It was important in the past, as it is now, and more so with intercontinental missiles and everyone having nukes.

wing2000 said:
No NATO.

No why? Greenland wasn't a thing until Trump wanted it. How long do you think the EU can supply Ukraine and build up countermeasures against 50 Russian submarines with nuclear capable torpedo's in the Arctic? It takes time to build ships, and with hollowed-out manufacturing, double the time.

wing2000 said:
No other countries pitching in for Arctic security.

And artic security wasn't a thing till Trump mentioned it. Thank you, Trump, for your foresight in global security and for recognizing that China is the #1 adversary. Why are liberals sympathetic to the Chinese?

I'm not delusional about the fact that mankind will eventually annialate themselves with nukes. This army boy has been watching the superpowers jockeying for position and the rise of China. It's all fun and games till the nukes drop.

Laodicean60 · 2026-01-23T08:43:22-0600

Laodicean60 said:
It's all fun and games till the nukes drop.

Who I fear the most are the religious types in the ME.

Lukaris · 2026-01-23T09:13:09-0600

For a year it seems like Trump has been acting like a madman over Greenland. Denmark indicated there was little or no Chinese involvement or investment in Greenland.

Denmark rebuts Trump's Greenland security claims - People's Daily Online

There are no Chinese warships operating around Greenland and no significant Chinese investments in t

en.people.cn

Yet, now we find that Trump’s current power play may actually deprive China of mineral rights and that there is Chinese mining interests in Greenland.

Trump's push for Greenland mineral rights could block China's access to rare earths

Greenland has the eighth largest rare earth reserves in the world at 1.5 million tons, according to 2024 data from the U.S. Geological Survey.

www.cnbc.com

Personally, I thought Trump was acting crazy for a year on this. Now it seems maybe he isn’t as wrong or insane as I previously thought. Guess showing up at the latest elbows up rally or anti ICE demo in Minn in a Chinese made EV is ok for some.

wing2000 · 2026-01-23T09:19:16-0600

Laodicean60 said:
Greenland is important to the USA's national security. It was important in the past, as it is now, and more so with intercontinental missiles and everyone having nukes.

.....which has been the case since 1952.

Laodicean60 said:
No why? Greenland wasn't a thing until Trump wanted it. How long do you think the EU can supply Ukraine and build up countermeasures against 50 Russian submarines with nuclear capable torpedo's in the Arctic? It takes time to build ships, and with hollowed-out manufacturing, double the time.

Yes, Greenland was "a thing". It was under the protectorate of NATO . Trump's argued it had to be part of U.S. territory over the objections of a NATO partner.

Laodicean60 said:
And artic security wasn't a thing till Trump mentioned it.

That's simply not true.

chevyontheriver · 2026-01-23T09:23:51-0600

Laodicean60 said:
And arctic security wasn't a thing till Trump mentioned it.

It was a thing to the Russians and Chinese.

Laodicean60 said:
I'm not delusional about the fact that mankind will eventually annialate themselves with nukes. This army boy has been watching the superpowers jockeying for position and the rise of China. It's all fun and games till the nukes drop.

Part of the game is living in a target city close enough to be vaporized instantly. It changes the whole meaning of being prepared to die. The old 'duck and cover' drills made millions think such a war was mostly survivable. Those who lived would envy the dead.

Stopped_lurking · 2026-01-23T09:25:01-0600

Lukaris said:
For a year it seems like Trump has been acting like a madman over Greenland. Denmark indicated there was little or no Chinese involvement or investment in Greenland.

Denmark rebuts Trump's Greenland security claims - People's Daily Online

There are no Chinese warships operating around Greenland and no significant Chinese investments in t

en.people.cn

Yet, now we find that Trump’s current power play may actually deprive China of mineral rights and that there is Chinese mining interests in Greenland.

Trump's push for Greenland mineral rights could block China's access to rare earths

Greenland has the eighth largest rare earth reserves in the world at 1.5 million tons, according to 2024 data from the U.S. Geological Survey.

www.cnbc.com

Personally, I thought Trump was acting crazy for a year on this. Now it seems maybe he isn’t as wrong or insane as I previously thought.

Mining at Kvanefjeld has been stopped since 2021. He is as wrong and as insane as you thought that he was. It is stopped due to Greenlanders not wanting a uranium mine operating on their shore. It was stopped by Greenlanders not Trump, a poll showed that the local population was against it (Ny grønlandsk leder om Kvanefjeld: “Man skal lytte til folket, og folket har talt, det bliver ikke til noget”).

Is this some kind of Trump-washing?

Laodicean60 · 2026-01-23T09:30:44-0600

Lukaris said:
For a year it seems like Trump has been acting like a madman over Greenland.

Eye of the beholder, and I don't care how he acts in this situation.

Lukaris said:
Denmark indicated there was little or no Chinese involvement or investment in Greenland.

Hello??? This is about the future war. Ever since we sued for war and China started helping Russia, it's no longer investments. Survival of the fittest and NATO isn't that.

Lukaris said:
Yet, now we find that Trump’s current power play may actually deprive China of mineral rights and that there is Chinese mining interests in Greenland.

That's part of it, but presently mining in Greenland isn't economical, and Trump said it himself.

wing2000 · 2026-01-23T09:32:08-0600

Laodicean60 said:
Hello??? This is about the future war. Ever since we sued for war and China started helping Russia, it's no longer investments. Survival of the fittest and NATO isn't that.

Do you think Greenland is more secure with U.S. protection alone?

7thKeeper · 2026-01-23T09:34:41-0600

wing2000 said:
....and yet, Trump was not making that argument was he?

And also, because this just keeps annoying me a bit, if we want to make the spending numbers better comparable, the US spending is 2,5% of GDP compared to European countries. This is because the 3,5 included healthcare costs for the military but in quite a few European countries, due to universal healthcare, this isn't part of the military budget as it's handled under the general healthcare spending.

Laodicean60 · 2026-01-23T09:50:01-0600

chevyontheriver said:
It was a thing to the Russians and Chinese.

Yes, especially when the ice started melting.

chevyontheriver said:
Part of the game is living in a target city close enough to be vaporized instantly.

This is how I want to go. Living through a nuclear winter doesn't sound like fun.

chevyontheriver said:
The old 'duck and cover' drills made millions

I remember elementary school in Houston when we had nuclear bomb drills. Even this child knew he was dead in that shelter. Back then, seeing the atomic bomb explosion on TV was common. I realized that hiding under a desk may work with a hand grenades but that atom bomb was a whole different ball of wax.

Laodicean60 · 2026-01-23T10:13:09-0600

wing2000 said:
Yes, Greenland was "a thing". It was under the protectorate of NATO .

You really mean the USA. I would agree with you if the UK (Europeans also reduced forces) still had its navy.

wing2000 said:
Trump's argued it had to be part of U.S. territory over the objections of a NATO partner.

This is what got those ignorant leaders to wake up. You know Trump can be sensational in his speech. Caused Denmark to finally invest in Arctic security for Greenland. Not even the Russian invasion of Ukraine made them think about it. I thought a nation's government priority is to protect its country and people.

wing2000 · 2026-01-23T10:25:46-0600

Laodicean60 said:
You really mean the USA. I would agree with you if the UK (Europeans also reduced forces) still had its navy.

This is what got those ignorant leaders to wake up. You know Trump can be sensational in his speech. Caused Denmark to finally invest in Arctic security for Greenland. Not even the Russian invasion of Ukraine made them think about it. I thought a nation's government priority is to protect its country and people.

Again, you refuse to acknowledge that increased security spending for Greenland was not the argument Trump has been making over the past year plus. He wanted Greenland. He didn't get it.

And now he's crowing about "Total access".

Guess what? He already had it (at least from a military perspective).

Lukaris · 2026-01-23T10:35:00-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
Mining at Kvanefjeld has been stopped since 2021

Yes, I misread that fact in my one article.

Laodicean60 · 2026-01-23T11:02:23-0600

wing2000 said:
Again, you refuse to acknowledge that increased security spending for Greenland was not the argument Trump has been making over the past year plus. He wanted Greenland. He didn't get it.

Art of the deal, Trump ultimately got what he really wanted, which was a commitment to Arctic security by the freeloaders.

RocksInMyHead · 2026-01-23T11:35:31-0600

Laodicean60 said:
Art of the deal, Trump ultimately got what he really wanted, which was a commitment to Arctic security by the freeloaders.

This reads like an ex-post-facto justification. If a commitment to Arctic security is what Trump actually wanted, why did he never ask for it?

Also, has there been any real commitment? AFAIK, they're just at the "framework of a deal" phase - which means nothing, as far as commitments go.

Tinker Grey · 2026-01-23T11:59:55-0600

RocksInMyHead said:
"framework of a deal"

Don't you mean "concept of a deal"?

Laodicean60 · 2026-01-23T12:16:50-0600

RocksInMyHead said:
If a commitment to Arctic security is what Trump actually wanted, why did he never ask for it?

He's been trying to get the freeloaders to spend since his first term, and that got him nowhere. He shouldn't have to ask after watching China and Russia join hands, even this hillbilly knows that.

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