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US appeals court lifts order curbing immigration agents' tactics against Minnesota protesters
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Certain border states have had checkpoints in the past
The legal framework governing that came from Supreme Court cases like United States v. Brignoni in the 70s.
United States v. Brignoni-Ponce - Wikipedia
Or in plain terms...
If an officer's primary area of focus is finding undocumented people in the country, given the nation of origin for a huge percentage undocumented folks are nations of Latino ethnicity and Spanish speaking, and in a metropolitan area that's designated itself as a safe haven and refuge for undocumented people, the Latino guy with an accent is more likely than the white guy with the typical Minnesota accent to be someone who falls into the undocumented category when it comes to who's getting questioned.
Superficial? Sure, but it's not like those perceptions came out of thin air.
If you were on a task force looking to crack down on drug use, and you saw these two people standing in a parking lot:
And this guy:
Which one are you leaning towards as being the person you're going to question?
Is it "judging a book by it's cover"? Yes, to a degree...but by the same token, there's a reason why books have covers.
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BPPLEE
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Believe it or not I found that people who drove a Taurus were more likely to have drugs than others. We even used an old Taurus to buy drugs undercover. It was like a magnetCertain border states have had checkpoints in the past
The legal framework governing that came from Supreme Court cases like United States v. Brignoni in the 70s.
Brignoni-Ponce set the rule that apparent Mexican ancestry can be one of the factors in forming a reasonable suspicion for stopping a vehicle, but cannot be the sole basis for an immigration stop. In Vasquez-Perdomo, the Court, through Justice Kavanaugh's concurrence, agreed that apparent ethnicity alone cannot furnish reasonable suspicion for immigration stops, but it can be a relevant factor when considered along with other salient features. The Court agrees that (i) presence at particular locations such as bus stops, car washes, day laborer pickup sites, agricultural sites, and the like; (ii) the type of work one does; (iii) speaking Spanish or speaking English with an accent are all relevant factors that may be considered along with ethnicity.United States v. Brignoni-Ponce - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Or in plain terms...
If an officer's primary area of focus is finding undocumented people in the country, given the nation of origin for a huge percentage undocumented folks are nations of Latino ethnicity and Spanish speaking, and in a metropolitan area that's designated itself as a safe haven and refuge for undocumented people, the Latino guy with an accent is more likely than the white guy with the typical Minnesota accent to be someone who falls into the undocumented category when it comes to who's getting questioned.
Superficial? Sure, but it's not like those perceptions came out of thin air.
If you were on a task force looking to crack down on drug use, and you saw these two people standing in a parking lot:
View attachment 375614
And this guy:
View attachment 375615
Which one are you leaning towards as being the person you're going to question?
Is it "judging a book by it's cover"? Yes, to a degree...but by the same token, there's a reason why books have covers.
Upvote
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Hans Blaster
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Well, let's see...If you were on a task force looking to crack down on drug use, and you saw these two people standing in a parking lot:
And this guy:
Which one are you leaning towards as being the person you're going to question?
The first guy certainly gives off vibes of cannabis user, but that is legal in this state, so no probable cause.
The second guy looks like the type that has a bottle of Adderall from the housekeepers daughter in his rucksack, ruffies for dating, and cocaine for parties. Plus he looks like he's never been in a grocery store parking lot and that probably explains why he was just seen exchanging something with a guy with three nose rings, a black leather jacket, spikey hair, and a face tattoo.
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That Guy 11200
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The second one. Public (i.e. private) school, upper middle class types like that tend to be well into the drug scene.Certain border states have had checkpoints in the past
The legal framework governing that came from Supreme Court cases like United States v. Brignoni in the 70s.
Brignoni-Ponce set the rule that apparent Mexican ancestry can be one of the factors in forming a reasonable suspicion for stopping a vehicle, but cannot be the sole basis for an immigration stop. In Vasquez-Perdomo, the Court, through Justice Kavanaugh's concurrence, agreed that apparent ethnicity alone cannot furnish reasonable suspicion for immigration stops, but it can be a relevant factor when considered along with other salient features. The Court agrees that (i) presence at particular locations such as bus stops, car washes, day laborer pickup sites, agricultural sites, and the like; (ii) the type of work one does; (iii) speaking Spanish or speaking English with an accent are all relevant factors that may be considered along with ethnicity.United States v. Brignoni-Ponce - Wikipedia
Or in plain terms...
If an officer's primary area of focus is finding undocumented people in the country, given the nation of origin for a huge percentage undocumented folks are nations of Latino ethnicity and Spanish speaking, and in a metropolitan area that's designated itself as a safe haven and refuge for undocumented people, the Latino guy with an accent is more likely than the white guy with the typical Minnesota accent to be someone who falls into the undocumented category when it comes to who's getting questioned.
Superficial? Sure, but it's not like those perceptions came out of thin air.
If you were on a task force looking to crack down on drug use, and you saw these two people standing in a parking lot:
View attachment 375614
And this guy:
View attachment 375615
Which one are you leaning towards as being the person you're going to question?
Is it "judging a book by it's cover"? Yes, to a degree...but by the same token, there's a reason why books have covers.
Upvote
0
CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN
My dad died 1/12/2023. I'm still devastated.
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They also get better access to drug treatment, than the poor.
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Pommer
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I saw this show once, Officer Hippie and Officer PrivateClub are partners who solve crimes.Certain border states have had checkpoints in the past
The legal framework governing that came from Supreme Court cases like United States v. Brignoni in the 70s.
Brignoni-Ponce set the rule that apparent Mexican ancestry can be one of the factors in forming a reasonable suspicion for stopping a vehicle, but cannot be the sole basis for an immigration stop. In Vasquez-Perdomo, the Court, through Justice Kavanaugh's concurrence, agreed that apparent ethnicity alone cannot furnish reasonable suspicion for immigration stops, but it can be a relevant factor when considered along with other salient features. The Court agrees that (i) presence at particular locations such as bus stops, car washes, day laborer pickup sites, agricultural sites, and the like; (ii) the type of work one does; (iii) speaking Spanish or speaking English with an accent are all relevant factors that may be considered along with ethnicity.United States v. Brignoni-Ponce - Wikipedia
Or in plain terms...
If an officer's primary area of focus is finding undocumented people in the country, given the nation of origin for a huge percentage undocumented folks are nations of Latino ethnicity and Spanish speaking, and in a metropolitan area that's designated itself as a safe haven and refuge for undocumented people, the Latino guy with an accent is more likely than the white guy with the typical Minnesota accent to be someone who falls into the undocumented category when it comes to who's getting questioned.
Superficial? Sure, but it's not like those perceptions came out of thin air.
If you were on a task force looking to crack down on drug use, and you saw these two people standing in a parking lot:
View attachment 375614
And this guy:
View attachment 375615
Which one are you leaning towards as being the person you're going to question?
Is it "judging a book by it's cover"? Yes, to a degree...but by the same token, there's a reason why books have covers.
Upvote
0
- Jun 13, 2016
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pfffft, it should be obvious, bear spray in hand = red blooded American patriot;
bear spray in face =Marxist.
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Laodicean60
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Nothing changed! The only change is who the president and it shows the hypocrisy of the left on their virtue signaling. Liberals are quiet as church mice when their guy is elected.
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Unless you count the ignoring of due process and the tactics of masked, unidentified, paramilitary invasions of metropolitan areas dragging people indiscrimnately from homes and cars at gun point... otherwise.. yeah nothing's changed at all.. other than the deaths of a few citizens caught in the scrum.
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I'm hoping that this response is satirical and not serious. But in this discussion that's not so clear. Why bother with trials? Police only arrest guilty people.
There are lots of reasons to want independent involvement such as juries and judges. There are institutional pressures on law enforcement to think they have bad guys. They need to produce the evidence and give the person a chance to respond.
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Was it due to the fact that they were cheap, and so heavily saturated in the marketplace that it helped one blend in? (I presume?)
I know for a while the re-sale value on those things were terrible simply because for a while it seems like every 4th person on the road had one.
So if someone observed a drug deal going down, and said "the guy was driving a Ford Taurus", that only narrowed the search down to 50,000 different people in a 10 mile radius lol. (I'm slightly exaggerating there, but you get the point)
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Laodicean60
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Honestly, I feel you are ignoring the violence and the tantrums liberals throw when they are not in power.
Ignoring the safety of law enforcement because of doxxing.
When overrun by criminals hell bent setting trash cans on fire, destroying private property, throwing stuff at law enforcement, running into them with vehicles, violating others' civil rights. Sometimes y'all get violent over a red hat that says Trump.
There wouldn't be deaths if the protests were peaceful. Common Sense!
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BPPLEE
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I don't know why it was. We were using one doing buys and sent 3 different informants to the same location in one day to buy crack and they never paid attention to the fact that it was the same car.
When I worked at a hospital I was over Security and the medical courier and we had a Taurus for the courier to use
The transmission went out and it would have cost more to fix than the car was worth.
They were also notorious for having the front bumper fall off
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..and yet the Obama adminstration was near 2:1 more effective in deporting illegals without resorting to those tactics, nor protesters in the streets.
What changed was the tactics and the tactics, bordering on illegal - if not outright illegal, have resulted in protest(s).
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Laodicean60
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What you are not understanding liberals don't want to make their President look bad, so they didn't go to this extreme. At that time, liberals were too focused on calling everyone Racist.
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What changed is that an increasing number of cities started employing sanctuary policies and declining to participate in the Secure Communities Program and Priority Enforcement Program provisions (like honoring detainer requests and notifying ICE about impending releases)
Meaning, during Obama's tenure.
State and local law enforcement (and judges) would check immigration status during arrests, traffic stops, and court hearings, and detain the person, and notify ICE so they could quietly come pick them up in a van.
Or, they would say "Hey, we checked this guy's status, and he's not a citizen, here's the time & place where we'll be releasing him from the county facility, so if you want to pick him up, that's where he'll be"
State and Local policies shape the ICE tactics that are used for finding people.
By mid-2016 (the last year of Obama's presidency), of the top 10 cities (by undocumented population), 8 of the 10 were refusing to participate in those programs.
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....and they are also grabbing U.S. citizens based on their appearance and accent.
My wife, who is a naturalized citizen, should not have to be looking out for ICE patrols when she goes into the local grocery store because she is Hispanic and speaks with an accent. I actually went with her the last time, and stayed in the parking lot. I joked I was on ICE lookout....but I was only half joking.
Wake up citizens. This is not right.
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I've posed this question in most all of the ICE related threads thus far, and I don't know that I've heard a good definitive answer on it. (it just typically drifts off back into "how bad their current tactics are")
That is...
How do we thread this needle?
If states and localities are no longer going to play by the same rules they did from 2006-2015 (in terms of cooperation with the feds)
And it's considered "unacceptable" for approaches like canvasing, random screening, questioning, and temporary detention to be used...
Then how exactly does this job get performed in a way that's not going to highly visible, and perceived as disruptive? (but still effective in the goal of removing people who aren't authorized to be here)
It'd be like if TSA was still tasked with their current objective, but were told
- No, you can use a body scanner on someone, that's an invasion of privacy
- No, you can't search someone's luggage without a warrant
- No, you can't ask people questions or demand to see their boarding pass to prove that they have a reason to be there unless you already have definitive probable cause established
- No, other enforcement agencies aren't going to assist in providing information about prior criminal records or maintaining a no-fly list (those are unpopular and those other agencies don't want the blowback themselves)
"Okay TSA, get out there an do the job of making sure there aren't any potential terrorists in the airports" (and then being surprised when it devolves into TSA agents arguing & fighting with angry flyers and randomly tackling people who happen to be wearing turbans)
When you take away the collaboration and more sophisticated refined approaches, they're pretty much reducing it to the only approach being utter randomness and trying to "eyeball it", which is far more susceptible to mistakes & conflicts, superficial perceptions, and potential biases.
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Stopped_lurking
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What about they do it as the administration did in the fiscal year 2016? If they focused on those actually convicted of crimes I guess it would not be possible to keep that information from ICE.
The Obama Record on Deportations: Deporter in Chief or Not?
President Obama faced criticism over his administration's handling of immigration enforcement from both the left and the right, labeled "deporter in chief" even as he was also accused of lax enforcement. A closer examination of his administration's record paints a more nuanced picture. This...
"The most recent enforcement figures released by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) on December 30 offer the latest evidence of these trends. Eighty-five percent of all removals and returns during fiscal year (FY) 2016 were of noncitizens who had recently crossed the U.S. border unlawfully. Of the remainder, who were removed from the U.S. interior, more than 90 percent had been convicted of what DHS defines as serious crimes."
That would probably lessen the voices decrying the tactics.
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