US appeals court lifts order curbing immigration agents' tactics against Minnesota protesters

Valletta · Wednesday at 10:44 PM

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-appeals-court-pauses-lower-court-order-restraining-immigration-agents-use-2026-01-21/

The order never should have been given in the first place, it escalates situations. ICE is dealing with a lot of people who have no respect for the law and are used to being coddled and given their way. Mobs are being egged on by political leaders. ICE needs to use pepper spray and other chemical agents to disperse crowds, those are proven alternatives to try before having to use a weapon. Without such measures they will need to aggressively defend themselves and civilians in the area. The radical leaders have demonstrated they are willing to see people killed in order to get what they want. That being the case, the DOJ has one course of action, see that those who assault officers get serious prison time. That will take the wind out of the sails of the rest.

MarcusGregor · Wednesday at 10:47 PM

Valletta said:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-appeals-court-pauses-lower-court-order-restraining-immigration-agents-use-2026-01-21/

The order never should have been given in the first place, it escalates situations. ICE is dealing with a lot of people who have no respect for the law and are used to being coddled and given their way. Mobs are being egged on by political leaders. ICE needs to use pepper spray and other chemical agents to disperse crowds, those are proven alternatives to try before having to use a weapon. Without such measures they will need to aggressively defend themselves and civilians in the area. The radical leaders have demonstrated they are willing to see people killed in order to get what they want. That being the case, the DOJ has one course of action, see that those who assault officers get serious prison time. That will take the wind out of the sails of the rest.

Or they could just quietly do their jobs like they did during the Obama and Biden administrations who both deported more than Trump has without terrorizing citizens. That's always an option.

Valletta · Wednesday at 10:58 PM

MarcusGregor said:
Or they could just quietly do their jobs like they did during the Obama and Biden administrations who both deported more than Trump has without terrorizing citizens. That's always an option.

They are doing the same job except they are making a concerted effort to go in, grab the criminal, and get out and ignore those who interfere as much as they can. Sadly they are dealing with an anti-America crowd, many who have been deceived by the evils of Marxism.

MarcusGregor · Wednesday at 11:02 PM

Valletta said:
They are doing the same job except they are making a concerted effort to go in, grab the criminal, and get out and ignore those who interfere as much as they can.

They had no issues during the deporter-in-chief's tenure. What changed?

Valletta said:
Sadly they are dealing with an anti-America crowd, many who have been deceived by the evils of Marxism.

Oh HO HO! Marxism is it, Mr. McCarthy?

Gene2memE · Wednesday at 11:26 PM

Minneapolis. 21 January 2026.

Credit: Richard Tsong-Taatarii/The Minnesota Star Tribune

Looks like Marxism to me.

Stopped_lurking · 2026-01-22T04:34:03-0600

Gene2memE said:
View attachment 375584

Minneapolis. 21 January 2026.

Credit: Richard Tsong-Taatarii/The Minnesota Star Tribune

Looks like Marxism to me.

What the... Can that even be legal, using it on an already restrained person?

That Guy 11200 · 2026-01-22T04:40:25-0600

MarcusGregor said:
Or they could just quietly do their jobs like they did during the Obama and Biden administrations who both deported more than Trump has without terrorizing citizens. That's always an option.

But that would mean a degree of competence that Maga seem allergic to.

Aryeh Jay · 2026-01-22T06:40:14-0600

Gene2memE said:
View attachment 375584

Minneapolis. 21 January 2026.

Credit: Richard Tsong-Taatarii/The Minnesota Star Tribune

Looks like Marxism to me.

How can you tell they are a Marxist with all that bear spray on their face?

Larniavc · 2026-01-22T07:32:16-0600

Valletta said:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-appeals-court-pauses-lower-court-order-restraining-immigration-agents-use-2026-01-21/

The order never should have been given in the first place, it escalates situations. ICE is dealing with a lot of people who have no respect for the law and are used to being coddled and given their way. Mobs are being egged on by political leaders. ICE needs to use pepper spray and other chemical agents to disperse crowds, those are proven alternatives to try before having to use a weapon. Without such measures they will need to aggressively defend themselves and civilians in the area. The radical leaders have demonstrated they are willing to see people killed in order to get what they want. That being the case, the DOJ has one course of action, see that those who assault officers get serious prison time. That will take the wind out of the sails of the rest.

They don’t need to use these heavy handed tactics. They didn’t in the past when they booted out far more people than they do today.

They are more violent and less successful now more than ever.

What say you to this?

Larniavc · 2026-01-22T07:33:26-0600

Valletta said:
grab the criminal,

How do they know that they are criminals before the grabbing?

Tropical Wilds · 2026-01-22T07:50:08-0600

Valletta said:
They are doing the same job except they are making a concerted effort to go in, grab the criminal, and get out and ignore those who interfere as much as they can. Sadly they are dealing with an anti-America crowd, many who have been deceived by the evils of Marxism.

They’re not grabbing criminals, they’re grabbing suspects. The determination of criminal status comes after due process, and all people have basic rights while on US soil. Grabbing somebody with maximum force is an absolute violation of that basic right.

ThatRobGuy · 2026-01-22T07:56:54-0600

MarcusGregor said:
Or they could just quietly do their jobs like they did during the Obama and Biden administrations who both deported more than Trump has without terrorizing citizens. That's always an option.

I've already mentioned in multiple threads why this isn't possible at the current juncture.

Obama spent his tenure with the advantage of having the Secure Communities & Priority Enforcement programs in place and high levels of compliance.

The reason why they were able to do their jobs quietly during the Obama administration is because local/state law enforcement agencies would honor detainer requests (or at the very least, send notifications to ICE about when they were planning on releasing them so they could be outside and waiting)

So the majority of these apprehensions were taking place at local police stations and county jails (or in the parking lot of those venues)

The ever-increasing list of cities designating themselves as "sanctuary cities" ramping up in the mid-2010s and refusing to give any cooperation to ICE is the reason why they've been relegated to trying to conduct apprehensions at grocery stores and restaurants instead of being able to pick people up from the local police stations.

Biden had a slightly different situation he was working with.

Most of Biden's removals were what were considered "Title 42 Expulsions", which means fast-tracked removals without hearings done for "public health reasons".

The people who would normally be protesting the hearing-free removal of 3 million people, weren't nearly as vocal about it because doing so could've been perceived as undercutting their own ideological stance on another big thing that was going on during 2021-2023.
(that stance being, "it's okay to suspend some rights & privileges if being done in the name of tamping down covid transmission")

So, if we want ICE to go back to the 2005-2014 style of apprehension (quiet, not highly visible to the general public), then cities and states would need to go back to their 2005-2014 level of cooperation.

hedrick · 2026-01-22T07:59:17-0600

Tropical Wilds said:
They’re not grabbing criminals, they’re grabbing suspects. The determination of criminal status comes after due process, and all people have basic rights while on US soil. Grabbing somebody with maximum force is an absolute violation of that basic right.

To some extent they are grabbing people who served time and were released. They are by some definitions criminals. I believe they are continuing to investigate things like criminal gangs. While the PR talks about criminals, there are also legitimate expulsion orders, and people not registered with the system at all. As far as I know, most of this is allowed by the courts.

But they are also grabbing ordinary people who are on a legal path to asylum or citizenship. One member of our church was arrested that way. As far as I can tell, anyone who isn't a citizen, or who looks foreign, is subject to detention. Now they are changing the rules, claiming to be able to force they way into homes with an administrative warrant. This is new.

I have no doubt that lots of people thought Biden hadn't enforced immigration laws, and wanted more enforcement. But I don't think this is what they expected.

hedrick · 2026-01-22T08:18:02-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
I've already mentioned in multiple threads why this isn't possible at the current juncture.

Obama spent his tenure with the advantage of having the Secure Communities & Priority Enforcement programs in place and high levels of compliance.

The reason why they were able to do their jobs quietly during the Obama administration is because local/state law enforcement agencies would honor detainer requests (or at the very least, send notifications to ICE about when they were planning on releasing them so they could be outside and waiting)

So the majority of these apprehensions were taking place at local police stations and county jails (or in the parking lot of those venues)

The ever-increasing list of cities designating themselves as "sanctuary cities" ramping up in the mid-2010s and refusing to give any cooperation to ICE is the reason why they've been relegated to trying to conduct apprehensions at grocery stores and restaurants instead of being able to pick people up from the local police stations.

Biden had a slightly different situation he was working with.

Most of Biden's removals were what were considered "Title 42 Expulsions", which means fast-tracked removals without hearings done for "public health reasons".

The people who would normally be protesting the hearing-free removal of 3 million people, weren't nearly as vocal about it because doing so could've been perceived as undercutting their own ideological stance on another big thing that was going on during 2021-2023.
(that stance being, "it's okay to suspend some rights & privileges if being done in the name of tamping down covid transmission")

So, if we want ICE to go back to the 2005-2014 style of apprehension (quiet, not highly visible to the general public), then cities and states would need to go back to their 2005-2014 level of cooperation.

I looked into the situation in Minnesota. It appears that their courts made a decision in 2019 that changed things. Because some specifics have changed since that decision, the attorney general issued an advisory opinion, but it was based on a decison by their court of appeals.

The Minnesota constitution doesn't permit arrest except with a warrant or probable cause. Administrative warrants and detainers normally don't qualify. As far as I can tell, there is no disagreement about that. However ICE currently maintains that Federal laws make compliance with a detainer mandatory, and that overrides a state's constitution. It's not clear to me that the Federal courts have ruled on this issue. I assume this will end up with the Supreme Court. Without such a ruling I can understand that state and local officials would not want to violate the constitution that empowers their work.

hedrick · 2026-01-22T08:27:49-0600

The problem of detainers would be solved immediately if they were actual judicial warrants. It appears to me that the whole immigration process is in a legal gray zone. Arresting, holding,and expelling someone looks a lot like the sort of punishment that is normally considered criminal law. But technically it's not. So there is little direct court oversight of the process. That seems dangerous. The impact on people's lives is the same as criminal law.

I'd feel better about it if immigration courts weren't part of the same organization that handles enforcement. If they were under the supervision of the judiciary, there would be some independence.

It turns out that we don't have as many checks and balances as we used to think we did.

ThatRobGuy · 2026-01-22T09:04:40-0600

hedrick said:
I looked into the situation in Minnesota. It appears that their courts made a decision in 2019 that changed things. Because some specifics have changed since that decision, the attorney general issued an advisory opinion, but it was based on a decison by their court of appeals.

The Minnesota constitution doesn't permit arrest except with a warrant or probable cause. Administrative warrants and detainers normally don't qualify. As far as I can tell, there is no disagreement about that. However ICE currently maintains that Federal laws make compliance with a detainer mandatory, and that overrides a state's constitution. It's not clear to me that the Federal courts have ruled on this issue. I assume this will end up with the Supreme Court. Without such a ruling I can understand that state and local officials would not want to violate the constitution that empowers their work.

hedrick said:
The problem of detainers would be solved immediately if they were actual judicial warrants. It appears to me that the whole immigration process is in a legal gray zone. Arresting, holding,and expelling someone looks a lot like the sort of punishment that is normally considered criminal law. But technically it's not. So there is little direct court oversight of the process. That seems dangerous. The impact on people's lives is the same as criminal law.

I'd feel better about it if immigration courts weren't part of the same organization that handles enforcement. If they were under the supervision of the judiciary, there would be some independence.

It turns out that we don't have as many checks and balances as we used to think we did.

That could all very well be the case... but with regards to what the other poster was getting at about "why can't they just do their jobs peacefully and quietly like they did during Obama's tenure", my post explained the "why" for that.

For the things you mentioned about federal administrative warrant enforcement running afoul their state's constitution...

I guess there's a couple different ways to evaluate it, but what it boils down to would be a tug-o-war between the more modern interpretation of the Supremacy Clause of the constitution vs. an originalist view of the 10th amendment.

With the former:

If a valid federal law conflicts with a state law, the federal law wins.
States cannot override federal law in areas where Congress has constitutional authority. (in this case, ICE was established by an act of congress in 2003)

With the latter
- Any power not originally delegated to the feds, is left up to the states to decide

This is very similar to the national debates that were being had back when the first few states started opening up marijuana dispensaries, and the DEA started raiding them based on administrative warrants.

In that case, in a 6-3 ruling, they ruled in favor of the federal authority. But they did it in a way that didn't necessarily crystalize it for future applications. Much like the original Roe v. Wade didn't explicitly rule on the matter of abortion, but rather "medical privacy". The Gonzales vs. Raich ruling didn't so much rule on federalism in a broader scope, it simply sided with the feds because the thing in question (pot sales) could potentially involve some interstate commerce.

So they technically ruled on it, but not in a way that was extremely durable for future application...

Aryeh Jay · 2026-01-22T09:26:02-0600

Larniavc said:
How do they know that they are criminals before the grabbing?

Because innocent people wouldn't be targeted by ICE.

ThatRobGuy · 2026-01-22T10:16:48-0600

Larniavc said:
How do they know that they are criminals before the grabbing?

LEOs (when doing stops, questioning, and temporary detaining) doesn't know in most cases.

When there's some form of positive ID via an outstanding warrant, or cooperation from another LEO agency giving them that information, then they may know. But in many instances, LEOs in the field are dealing with suspects (meaning yet to be convicted) vs. confirmed criminals.

For example, if my car is swerving down the road at 2am and an officer saw me pull out of a bar parking lot 3 minutes before, they suspect I'm drinking and driving, but it's not confirmed until they stop me, question me, and if need be, temporarily detain me for further testing.

Larniavc · 2026-01-22T13:13:16-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
LEOs (when doing stops, questioning, and temporary detaining) doesn't know in most cases.

They have reasonable suspicion.

So what are the markers of being illegal that ICE rely on to give them reasonable suspicion?

Larniavc · 2026-01-22T13:17:46-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
For example, if my car is swerving down the road at 2am and an officer saw me pull out of a bar parking lot 3 minutes before, they suspect I'm drinking and driving, but it's not confirmed until they stop me, question me, and if need be, temporarily detain me for further testing.

But that is clearly dangerous behaviour. What about if rather than that you were doing your job in say a restaurant? Or walking down the road carrying shopping? Or in a waiting room waiting for a court hearing to establish your legal immigrant status?

Would that be grounds for suspicion?

If anyone could be illegal why are there not stopping everyone? Why are there no checkpoints?

The answer I think is obvious but I would be interested in your reasoning here.

We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

US appeals court lifts order curbing immigration agents' tactics against Minnesota protesters

Well-Known Member

New year, new you...

Well-Known Member

New year, new you...

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Stuck on a ship.

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"

Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

Part of the IT crowd

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Part of the IT crowd

Stuck on a ship.

Part of the IT crowd

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"

Similar threads