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New documents shed light on Renee Good’s ties to ICE monitoring efforts in Minneapolis

BPPLEE

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The road was not blocked. It's a one way road with two lanes. Good stated her intention to pull away. "proper lane of traffic" is meaningless in this case. There are two lanes going in the same direction so which of the two is the "proper" one?
The ICE agent who shot Good may have been in the wrong, I can't say for sure from the video, but please stop with this "Good was just driving home. It's perfectly normal to park your car sideways in a lane of traffic "
It's ridiculous. She was there to obstruct ICE.
 
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Vanellus

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The ICE agent who shot Good may have been in the wrong, I can't say for sure from the video, but please stop with this "Good was just driving home. It's perfectly normal to park your car sideways in a lane of traffic "
It's ridiculous. She was there to obstruct ICE.
I haven't written the words you've ascribed to me in quote marks. The road was not blocked as vehicles passed by in front of Good's vehicle shortly before she was shot. Do you deny that?
 
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BPPLEE

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I haven't written the words you've ascribed to me in quote marks. The road was not blocked as vehicles passed by in front of Good's vehicle shortly before she was shot. Do you deny that?
She waved someone around because she was waiting to block the ICE vehicle
Do you normally just park sideways in a lane of traffic?
 
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Vanellus

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She waved someone around because she was waiting to block the ICE vehicle
Do you normally just park sideways in a lane of traffic?
That's just invention on your part. You didn't answer my question yet you ask me a question.
Do you deny that vehicles passed in front of Good's car shortly before she was killed - yes or no?
And remember the key thing here is that Good was shot dead.
 
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BPPLEE

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That's just invention on your part. You didn't answer my question yet you ask me a question.
Do you deny that vehicles passed in front of Good's car shortly before she was killed - yes or no?
And remember the key thing here is that Good was shot dead.
I clearly said that she waved a car around.
 
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rjs330

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Traffic laws are not Federal laws. Traffic laws are state or local law enforcement issues.
They weren't enforcing traffic laws. What makes you think they were?

They were enforcing obstruction laws. Which allowed them to contact her and demand she get out of the car.
 
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rjs330

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Do you deny that vehicles passed in front of Good's car shortly before she was killed - yes or no?
They had to go around her car. Which means she was blocking the lane of traffic. It was part of her Obstruction and Interferrance she was doing. Which allowed rhe agents to contact her and demand she get out of the car.
 
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MrMoe

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They were blocking one lane of traffic where their operation was taking place. Good's vehicle had no effect on that operation.

It had an affect on traffic, which in turn would have affected the operating.

Correct, she had no effect on the ICE agents to do their duty. She was guilty of a traffic violation and not obstruction.

She was obstructing traffic by blocking a lane on a road ICE were operating on, which would have had an effect on their ability to do their duty.

Depends. Police wouldn't have approached her screaming at her to get out.

How do you know? I seen plenty of police camera footage of them doing this exact thing.

Police are trained to deescalate a situation.

I’ve heard police shout for people to get out of their vehicles just like the ICE officer. So that must mean the ICE officer was trying to deesculate the situation.

If police had been yelling conflicting orders, as the ICE agents were, they would had been partially at fault.

One or two people claimed they were yelling conflicting orders, but the only proof we have on camera is the officer yelling for her to get out of her car several times. No conflicting orders heard.


I have said that but since she wasn't obstructing their operation, they had no authority.

ICE officers say she was. They were actually there, so I will take their word over someone on a forum with only seconds of footage to go by.


Her situation was totally different than Good's.

False. Both women inserted themselves into situations they were not supposed to be in. Both failed to comply with officer’s orders.

No, first hand testimony. Former ICE officials know what their officers are trained in. Judges also know the law and rule on these cases.

Appeal to authority fallacy.
You claim that “Their opinion s are more relevant than the ICE officer because they know the state and local laws, unlike many ICE officers.” But then you inexplicably cite former ICE officers as a source. You also ignore things like biases and agendas. You also conveniently don’t give the verdicts to the cases.

Not a criminal law breaker.

Still a law breaker all the same.

No one said they did.

So why bring it up?

The only illegal thing that she did was a traffic violation.

And possibly obstruction and disobeying a command from an officer.

You don't have to obey unlawful orders.

How do you know? The investigation hasn’t concluded yet.
 
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MrMoe

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Hmm quite a redefinition of the word "middle" - maybe it's an alternative middle.

View attachment 375572
View attachment 375573

As you can see Renee Good's car is between the broken line which marks the middle of the road for car traffic and the edge of the road. The car isn't straddling this centre line so it is not in the middle of the road as you falsely asserted.

You conveniently chose a picture which shows her backed up, but at the beginning of the video you can clearly see the front of her car is over the centre line. Even in the picture you show she is still parked on a lane perpendicular to the road, which is a traffic offence. So you’re arguing a moot point.

Note that the road is one way. No cars were blocked and so there was no impeding of anyone.

She is still blocking a lane by parking perpendicular to the road, which is an offence regardless.

Only one horn is heard honking repeatedly in the twitter video

So that makes the offence less bad?


and the movements of the camera seem to indicate more interest in what is happening further up the road in a rightwards direction.

What are you implying?


Standard police procedure in Minnesota and elsewhere is that police should not place themselves in front of a vehicle (Ross was at front left by the headlight when Good pulled away) and that in such cases one should step out of the way not shoot the driver.

Ross is an ICE officer not a police officer. Two different departments.


Good had already stated her intention to "pull out"

Doesn’t matter what her intentions were. She was ordered to get out of the car by the officer and that’s what she should have done.

just before the two other ICE agents approached her aggressively.

I saw no aggression in their approach. I saw just the opposite. I saw them calmly walk up to the car.

Ross was seen to be walking normally afterwards and drove himself away.

There’s this thing called adrenaline, that came make you appear fine for a while but then after it wears off you feel the affects of any injuries.
 
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rjs330

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Correct, she had no effect on the ICE agents to do their duty. She was guilty of a traffic violation and not obstruction.
You have no idea what she had been involved with that day.
Police wouldn't have approached her screaming at her to get out. Police are trained to deescalate a situation. If police had been yelling conflicting orders, as the ICE agents were, they would had been partially at fault.
Police do that all the time. They totally do yell at people to get out of the car.

And there is no evidence they were giving conflicting orders. It was her lover that told her to drive, baby drive.
I have said that but since she wasn't obstructing their operation, they had no authority.
You aren't the one to determine that.
Not a criminal law breaker.
Not for you to decide.
No one said they did. The only illegal thing that she did was a traffic violation.
You don't know that.
You don't have to obey unlawful orders.
You have no idea if they were unlawful or not. Your statement is also a bit broad.
 
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Yarddog

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They weren't enforcing traffic laws.
No, they were running an operation which was over.
What makes you think they were?
Because they approached a vehicle that's only violation was blocking one lane of a one way street. They had no jurisdiction to approach her vehicle.
They were enforcing obstruction laws.
She wasn't obstructing anyone. She was over a hundred yards away from the ICE operation.
Which allowed them to contact her and demand she get out of the car.
That hasn't been established by anyone. The Feds refuse to investigate and Minnesota is still investigating the incident.
 
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stevevw

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Your disinterest in the only conversation I have been having with you here is... telling.
I am only copying you lol.
But it didn't. It was anonymous when you made that claim. The anonymous claim came first in one outlet, then another. It is not surprising that the Secretary *confirmed* it when asked at a press conference or something.
So its been confirmed and is not fake news as you claim.
Frankly, HHS Secretary Noem and her spokesperson McWhatever, are prolific prevaricators.
What, you are claiming some anonymous report where anonymous reports are just about always proven wrong. Because they are anonymous and cannot be verified.

But thats not the point. The point is you were trying to use some anonymous claim to support your claim. I am using a direct and official statement that is not anonymous. The only come back you have to to call them liars.

How do we know the anonymous claim is not a lie. Or that you are making stuff up. Why does your claim hold more creedence than mine. It was you who made the claim that Rosse murdered Good. That was an unfounded claim.
Again, the normal way to do this is to put out a press release with quotes from named doctors at the hospital or at a press report (often with the doctors) while the agent recovers in the hospital. Actual "internal bleeding" that is not just a bruise is quite life threatening and serious. Nothing about this claim has indicated they act like it is serious.
Your making stuff up to make a case against Ross and Trump because of bias. Ideological bias.

AI Overview
Bruising is a common sign of minor internal bleeding.

I would expect some brusing from being hit by a 1 ton moving metal object. Even if it was at a low speed or a nudge.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Hans Blaster

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I am only copying you lol.
Shut up.
So its been confirmed and is not fake news as you claim.
By liars, for what that is worth?
What, you are claiming some anonymous report where anonymous reports are just about always proven wrong. Because they are anonymous and cannot be verified.

But thats not the point. The point is you were trying to use some anonymous claim to support your claim. I am using a direct and official statement that is not anonymous. The only come back you have to to call them liars.

How do we know the anonymous claim is not a lie. Or that you are making stuff up. Why does your claim hold more creedence than mine. It was you who made the claim that Rosse murdered Good. That was an unfounded claim.

Your making stuff up to make a case against Ross and Trump because of bias. Ideological bias.

AI Overview
Bruising is a common sign of minor internal bleeding.

I would expect some brusing from being hit by a 1 ton moving metal object. Even if it was at a low speed or a nudge.
 
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Yarddog

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It had an affect on traffic, which in turn would have affected the operating.
You haven't given any evidence of that. All videos show her only blocking one lane and waving any vehicles to pass by. The ICE operation affected traffic far more than Good's vehicle.
How do you know? I seen plenty of police camera footage of them doing this exact thing.
Most videos only show the worst police interactions instead of the norm. I have close relatives, close friends, and neighbors that are career police officers. I asked them what the proper way that a trained police officer would have handled themselves in this matter.
I’ve heard police shout for people to get out of their vehicles just like the ICE officer.
I have in videos but I've never seen one do that during a traffic stop. The videos that I've seen of bad stops usually show that that the officer has numerous violations on their record.
So that must mean the ICE officer was trying to deesculate the situation.
No. That usually means that something else had occurred that made police feel that the occupants were dangerous.

Deescalation means to approach the vehicle and speaking in a calm unthreatening manner. Police would approach the vehicle to see why it was blocking the lane. If the driver appeared to be okay, they would be asked to pull the vehicle over to one side so the investigation could safely continue.

There are several reasons why occupants may be asked to get out of the vehicle but usually the officer needs to communicate with the driver to see if that is needed.
ICE officers say she was.
That is true but that doesn't mean they were correct. Evidence needs to be presented before a judge, who can make that decision.
They were actually there, so I will take their word over someone on a forum with only seconds of footage to go by.
That's fine. I won't take their word since they were caught lying.
False. Both women inserted themselves into situations they were not supposed to be in. Both failed to comply with officer’s orders.
Spoken like a very biased individual. Facts show two entirely different situations.

Both women were protesting but Good was very peaceful and spoke nicely to ICE agents.
Babbitt was part of a violent riot where rioters beat police officers.
Good's only violation was partially blocking a lane of traffic.
Babbitt trespassed on Federal property in an attempt to overthrow a fair election. She and other rioters were using objects to violently breakout windows in a door that police had barricaded to protect Congress. After breaking out one window, Babbitt attempted to climb through that space too gain access where she was banned.
Good was shot because an officer thought she was driving at at and tried to protect himself.
Babbitt was shot because an officer trained to protect Congress did his job and protected Congress from a violent person.
Still a law breaker all the same.
I've never denied that.
So why bring it up?
Because you did.
And possibly obstruction and disobeying a command from an officer.
Maybe but no evidence has been presented that shows her obstructing ICE operations. Video does show her partially blocking the street, about a hundred yards away.
How do you know?
Because unlawful orders have no basis in law and civilians are only required to obey lawful orders.
The investigation hasn’t concluded yet.
Hopefully, the Federal government agrees to work with Minnesota officials to properly investigate this tragedy.
 
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Yarddog

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You have no idea what she had been involved with that day.
Yes we do. She had just dropped her kids off at school.
Police do that all the time. They totally do yell at people to get out of the car.
Do you even know any police officers? I know a bunch. They say that it doesn't.
 
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stevevw

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She never said that "they were going to be out and about that afternoon doing the same." She said that plates will be the same when ICE comes to talk with them later. Your statement is not what she said. And you put it in quotes again, why do you put it quotes if you don't plan to actually present quotes? This is tantamount to lying.
They are not quotes. Its to seperate what I have summarised rather than the persons direct quote. You talk about me changing what was said. You literally just added words to what was said. No one said anything about Rebecca saying that the officers were going to come back and talk to them later.

She merely said the plates will be the same plates when they see them later. Theres no indication of what is meant by later. Your assuming it means the same incident. If the women managed to drive away. What was the later tome they would come in contact with ICE agents. If not another seperate time.
That ICE would come and visit them perhaps?
Now you are reading stuff into this. I agree its a big "perhaps". But I don't think so. If the women abided and drove off they would not have been in trouble. There would be no reason to come and see them later.
How about ICE comes an visit them later as an explanation.
Why, they had done nothing wrong at that stage. It seems the ICE officers were continually checking and noting protesters number plates. To monitor who was protesting.
Yes, I don't believe you have showed that they planned to go out and protest later.
So your saying this was their first time they had protested against ICE. Its early days so we will not know for sure. But it doesn't matter anyway.

Whether this was her first time or not they were certainly not innocent bystanders. They were agitating ICE officers, They actions don't speak of a fresh and green protestor. They were the only ones illegally blocking and threatening ICE. One time was enough to go too far.
So why did you write your statements then?
For the same reason you wrote yours.
I have no idea, but I haven't said one way or another.
Thats right. Its early days.
Because, it makes fun of ICEs changing of plates.
But its not the fun making. But the reference to later encounters ie the plates are the same every moring. Why does it matter to ICE that their plates are the same every morning if they will never see them to check.

The plates will be the same when you see us later on. Later on where. If they drove off then when would that later time be. If not another encounter. At that stage Rebecca thought they were going to drive away and not be around to be seen later within the same incident.
At their homes or work or whatever.
But they had not been arrested. You are not injecting unfounded assumptions into whats happening.
Presenting false quotes, that is not a good look, that is tendentious commentary or straight up lies.
You literally just claimed that Rebecca said that the 'later; she used was about the officers coming aroiund to her house later. I am doing exactly the same as you. Summarising what I think they meant. Its not a lie but an honest interpretation of what they meant.
You have already made statements on the evidence you had at hand. You can't now retreat to more evidence is needed
Ah everyone has made statements on the evidence at hand. Why would that mean no one can make further statements on new evidence at hand.
You can think that if you want, but it is not evidenced by the wife's statements.
See, you are literally doing what you accused me of doing. I am not using the wifes statement but logic and a reasonable assumption. That people who joing activists groups are usually activists and don't just do it once. They get involved as an ongoing concern. Otherwise they are negating their own activism.
 
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stevevw

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I still wonder why Good’s wife has not released her cellphone video.
I am not sure. I would imagine the more video the better. Especially from one of the people directly involved.
 
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