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Why do we do things not written in the Bible?

The Liturgist

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Jan001

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.......I mention Christmas and Easter. Neither one is written in the Bible to do, so that means it comes from an out source tradition created by man. ......
Jesus celebrated the Feast of Dedication (aka Hanukkah and Festival of Lights) even though it was a man-made feast, This man-made feast was pleasing to God. 1 Maccabees 4:59

John 10:22-23 It was the feast of the Dedication at Jerusalem; 23 it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the portico of Solomon.
 
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JSRG

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No I haven't and I apologies about that, also I haven't post Christmas or Easter historically without source since. I find it problematic that you are continuing to assert old matters because I mention Christmas and Easter.

"Old matters"? The Easter stuff from a week ago in this very topic. That's not old. The Christmas discussion was a little older, but still in this topic and less than a month ago.

And the problem is that you have such a recurring tendency to post claims, have people point out there's not evidence for these and in fact evidence against, and then rather than give a real response, you typically just change the subject or don't respond at all. Now, I usually am pretty lenient on people dropping a subject and not replying. Everyone has things to do, and arguing with strangers on the Internet is for a lot of people a lower one. The problem comes that, after your points have been rebutted, you come back and make the claim all over again as if none of that had happened. That's why I bring up "old matters" (if one week ago is "old"). What I suppose is "old matters" is when I noted your initial post on Easter was mostly just a copy of a post you made a year ago... but there the problem was that even though I went into great detail in pointing out your errors, which you were apparently unable to respond to because you just changed the subject back then, you still post off the exact same errors all over again. And then that happened again here; despite the major problems with your claims that I and others have pointed out, you just make the "pagan" claim again as if that hadn't happened.

Remember, this was how the Easter conversation went (at least by my reckoning, others can certainly weigh in on if they think I have represented it properly).

You: Easter is pagan! Here's a bunch of claims about it that I copied from another site.

Me: No sources or evidence is offered for any of this. and a lot of this is provably false or there is absolutely zero evidence for; also, this is almost identical to something you posted a year ago that I already responded to in detail and which you offered no counter response, so you should know the problems with it already.

You: *ducks giving any response to any of the points raised*

Me: You ducked responding to a single point I raised.

You: *ducks giving any response to any of the points raised again*

Me: You ducked responding to any of the points again.

You gave no additional reply after that. Again, I would have let the matter drop... but then you, one week later, again bring up the claim of Easter being "pagan" even after your errors were demonstrated in such depth and you had no response or evidence. That's why I bring up "old matters" because you keep doing this.
 
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Bro.T

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"Old matters"? The Easter stuff from a week ago in this very topic. That's not old. The Christmas discussion was a little older, but still in this topic and less than a month ago.

And the problem is that you have such a recurring tendency to post claims, have people point out there's not evidence for these and in fact evidence against, and then rather than give a real response, you typically just change the subject or don't respond at all. Now, I usually am pretty lenient on people dropping a subject and not replying. Everyone has things to do, and arguing with strangers on the Internet is for a lot of people a lower one. The problem comes that, after your points have been rebutted, you come back and make the claim all over again as if none of that had happened. That's why I bring up "old matters" (if one week ago is "old"). What I suppose is "old matters" is when I noted your initial post on Easter was mostly just a copy of a post you made a year ago... but there the problem was that even though I went into great detail in pointing out your errors, which you were apparently unable to respond to because you just changed the subject back then, you still post off the exact same errors all over again. And then that happened again here; despite the major problems with your claims that I and others have pointed out, you just make the "pagan" claim again as if that hadn't happened.

Remember, this was how the Easter conversation went (at least by my reckoning, others can certainly weigh in on if they think I have represented it properly).

You: Easter is pagan! Here's a bunch of claims about it that I copied from another site.

Me: No sources or evidence is offered for any of this. and a lot of this is provably false or there is absolutely zero evidence for; also, this is almost identical to something you posted a year ago that I already responded to in detail and which you offered no counter response, so you should know the problems with it already.

You: *ducks giving any response to any of the points raised*

Me: You ducked responding to a single point I raised.

You: *ducks giving any response to any of the points raised again*

Me: You ducked responding to any of the points again.

You gave no additional reply after that. Again, I would have let the matter drop... but then you, one week later, again bring up the claim of Easter being "pagan" even after your errors were demonstrated in such depth and you had no response or evidence. That's why I bring up "old matters" because you keep doing this.

The Ancient Pagan Origins of Easter | Ancient Origins

Easter is associated with the Jewish festival of Passover through its symbolism and meaning, as well as its position in the calendar. Some early Christians chose to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on the same date as Passover, which reflects Easter having entered Christianity during its earliest Jewish period. Evidence of a more developed Christian festival of Easter emerged around the mid-second century.

In 325 AD, Emperor Constantine convened a meeting of Christian leaders to resolve important disputes at the Council of Nicaea. Since the church believed that the resurrection took place on a Sunday, the Council determined that Easter should always fall on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox. Easter has since remained without a fixed date but proximate to the full moon, which coincided with the start of Passover.

While there are distinct differences between the celebrations of Pesach and Easter, both festivals celebrate rebirth – in Christianity through the resurrection of Jesus, and in Jewish traditions through the liberation of the Israelites from slavery.

The Origins of Easter customs

The most widely-practiced customs on Easter Sunday relate to the symbol of the rabbit (‘Easter bunny’) and the egg. As outlined previously, a hare was a symbol associated with Eostre, representing the beginning of Springtime. Likewise, the egg has come to represent Spring, fertility, and renewal. In Germanic mythology, it is said that Ostara healed a wounded bird she found in the woods by changing it into a hare. Still partially a bird, the hare showed its gratitude to the goddess by laying eggs as gifts.

The Encyclopedia Britannica clearly explains the pagan traditions associated with the egg: “The egg as a symbol of fertility and of renewed life goes back to the ancient Egyptians and Persians, who had also the custom of colouring and eating eggs during their spring festival.” In ancient Egypt, an egg symbolised the sun, while for the Babylonians, the egg represents the hatching of the Venus Ishtar, who fell from heaven to the Euphrates.

The Encyclopedia Last Two Millions Pg. 216: “Pagan Rites Absorbed”

Easter, for instance, a time of sacrifice and rebirth in the Christian year, takes its name from the Norse goddess Eostre, in whose honor rites were held every spring. She in turn was simply a Northern version of the Phoenicians earth-mother Astarte, goddess of fertility. Easter eggs continue an-old age tradition in which the egg is a symbol of birth; and cakes which were eating to mark the festival of Astarte and Eostre where the direct ancestor of our hot-cross buns.

The Encyclopedia Last Two Millions Pg. 84 “Belief that made a nation”

The Phoenicians, important though their achievement were as migrant traders and colonizers, seem to have developed a little conception nationhood. But the Hebrews or Jews, with relatively small in numbers though they were saw themselves from the start as a distant people because of their believe in Yahweh or Jehovah the only God. Orgiastic rites; devotees of Astarte were stimulated by music, wine and incense.

Hx. Book: Last 2Mil Yrs. Pg 216 & 84 "Pagan Rites Absorbed" The Catholic Church established churches where temples to pagan gods use to be. Easter/Eastra– heathen festival – easter – hot cross buns

“A Belief that made a nation” The celebration of Eastra/Astarte demanded sacred temple prostitutes, orgiastic rites (orgies), music and incense (weed).
 
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Bro.T

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Jesus celebrated the Feast of Dedication (aka Hanukkah and Festival of Lights) even though it was a man-made feast, This man-made feast was pleasing to God. 1 Maccabees 4:59

John 10:22-23 It was the feast of the Dedication at Jerusalem; 23 it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the portico of Solomon.
Ok, the feast of Dedication is not a pagan feast.
 
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Bro.T

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Christmas (Christ's Mass) is not a pagan festival. It is a Catholic feast day that commemorates the birth of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

Christians do not celebrate or worship false gods on December 25. Christians worship Jesus, the incarnate Son of God the Father, on December 25. We also worship God the Father and God the Holy Spirit on this feast day. We commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ every December 25th. Was he actually born on December 25? It doesn't matter.

It also doesn't matter what anyone else (pagan or not) celebrates on December 25.

Who makes all the days? God makes/creates all the days; therefore, all the days are good.

How you use each of his good days is what matters to him!


If you use his good day to do good things, he is pleased.
If you use his good day to do evil things, he is displeased.

Worshiping God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) on every December 25th to commemorate the incarnate birth of God's only begotten Son is definitely pleasing to Him.
Where Did Christmas Come From?

World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed. The end of December was an especially significant time in the northern hemisphere. Days were short; nights long. The sun was at its lowest point. This called for the celebration of special festivals of thanksgiving and encouragement to the waning sun. When at the winter solstice in late December, the days began to lengthen once again, there was great festivity lasting into the first part of January. The reason was that the declining sun---the light of the world--had been reborn and began to gain in strength. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice ". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra (the Persian's Sun God) celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun).

The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away".

The simple fact is that, as more and more people from throughout the Western Roman Empire became converted to an increasingly popular Christianity, they brought many of their favorite customs with them. "The pagan [winter festivals of the] Saturnalia and Brumalia were too deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influence... The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in spirit or in manner... Christians of Mesopotamia accused their western brethren of idolatry and sun-worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival. Yet the festival rapidly gained acceptance and became at last so firmly entrenched that even the Protestant revolution of the sixteenth century was not able to dislodge it..." (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Volume III, article "Christmas.") You see this going on in churches today. Churches are constantly recruiting new members from other denominations and they often bring some aspect of their previous church to the new one. If you notice, many Christians today celebrate the Roman Catholic tradition of Lent. Historically, Lent, was not celebrated by Protestant churches.
 
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PloverWing

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Thank you for citing your source.

Easter is associated with the Jewish festival of Passover through its symbolism and meaning, as well as its position in the calendar. Some early Christians chose to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on the same date as Passover, which reflects Easter having entered Christianity during its earliest Jewish period. [...]

It's odd to me that the Ancient Origins author doesn't mention the most obvious reason to celebrate Easter near the date of Passover: Christians believe that Jesus was crucified during or near the feast of Passover. See, for example, Matthew 26 and John 13.

The most widely-practiced customs on Easter Sunday relate to the symbol of the rabbit (‘Easter bunny’) and the egg.

Are these really the most widely practiced customs, though? All around the world (not just the US and northwestern Europe), and back through the centuries? More common than, say, observing the Lenten fast and then breaking the fast on Easter Sunday? More common than gathering to read the Resurrection story and sing hymns? More common than declaring "Alleluia, Christ is risen!"?

Eggs make some sense to me, at least for Orthodox Christians. If you've had to abstain from eating eggs for weeks, getting to eat them again is a treat. And you might decorate the eggs that your chickens are laying in the meantime, because the chickens don't know it's Lent.

But I think the rabbit thing may be just from German- and English-speaking people in Europe and North America, which is a minority of Christians worldwide. Do you have sources saying that an Easter Bunny figure is also important to African and South American Christians?
 
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The Ancient Pagan Origins of Easter | Ancient Origins

Easter is associated with the Jewish festival of Passover through its symbolism and meaning, as well as its position in the calendar. Some early Christians chose to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on the same date as Passover, which reflects Easter having entered Christianity during its earliest Jewish period. Evidence of a more developed Christian festival of Easter emerged around the mid-second century.

In 325 AD, Emperor Constantine convened a meeting of Christian leaders to resolve important disputes at the Council of Nicaea. Since the church believed that the resurrection took place on a Sunday, the Council determined that Easter should always fall on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox. Easter has since remained without a fixed date but proximate to the full moon, which coincided with the start of Passover.

While there are distinct differences between the celebrations of Pesach and Easter, both festivals celebrate rebirth – in Christianity through the resurrection of Jesus, and in Jewish traditions through the liberation of the Israelites from slavery.

Here you are just copying what someone else said. Now, you are giving credit, so that's not the problem, but rather the fact that just because someone else says something, doesn't automatically make it right. What matters is on what basis they say it. So, does this source offer any evidence?


The Origins of Easter customs

The most widely-practiced customs on Easter Sunday relate to the symbol of the rabbit (‘Easter bunny’) and the egg. As outlined previously, a hare was a symbol associated with Eostre, representing the beginning of Springtime. Likewise, the egg has come to represent Spring, fertility, and renewal. In Germanic mythology, it is said that Ostara healed a wounded bird she found in the woods by changing it into a hare. Still partially a bird, the hare showed its gratitude to the goddess by laying eggs as gifts.

This is just you repeating a claim I already refuted; granted, copied from a different source, but the same claim. Here is the thing: In the first place, it's not clear if there ever was any Eostre. We have only one evidence of Eostre in the historical record, a passing reference that said a month got named after her because there were feasts to her in it. That's it.

So the claim that Eostre--who may not have ever been worshipped to begin with and just been a post hoc guess as to where the name of the month came from--had any involvements with hares is pure speculation. There is zero source that attests to it. This was already pointed out, again, and it needs to be reiterated: Anyone who claims anyting about Eostre that Bede didn't say (and he didn't say much) is offering speculation.

Your article digs itself even deeper by making the even more ridiculous "In Germanic mythology, it is said that Ostara healed a wounded bird she found in the woods by changing it into a hare." This is flatly false, unless by "in Germanic mythology" it means "in wild speculations of the last century or two." Do you want to know the first mention of Ostara in the historical record? She is first mentioned in the 19th century when Jacob Grimm, trying to find evidence for Eostre (because there is nothing beyond Bede's brief reference) speculated that there was an Ostara who was a Germanic goddess who was Eostre's counterpart. This was a speculation on his part. Keep that in mind: The entire existence of this goddess was a speculation.

Now, if the goddess's very existence is a speculation of a 19th century writer, how in the world could there be any stories in German mythology about her healing a wounded bird? The answer is rather obvious: There aren't any such stories. The story the article puts forward is completely made up.

This is why no sources--let alone any primary sources--are cited. Because, again, these claims are made up. This is the sort of error that makes one wonder why they should take seriously anything in the article if it's going to mess things up this badly.

One might as well declare that Easter eggs and Easter bunnies come from the fact Jesus had a pet bunny and at the Last Supper painted an egg, and that is the source of these traditions. This claim actually stands on better ground than the Ostara story, surprisingly enough, because we have the Gospels as references to Jesus from the first century, whereas even the entire idea of Ostara was a total speculation from the 19th century.

The Encyclopedia Britannica clearly explains the pagan traditions associated with the egg: “The egg as a symbol of fertility and of renewed life goes back to the ancient Egyptians and Persians, who had also the custom of colouring and eating eggs during their spring festival.” In ancient Egypt, an egg symbolised the sun, while for the Babylonians, the egg represents the hatching of the Venus Ishtar, who fell from heaven to the Euphrates.

Here, at least, we see a source cited (the Encyclopedia Britannica), though one can't help but be a bit annoyed about its lack of specificity as to which edition is being cited. It's also not a primary citation, or even something else citing a primary citation.

In the first place, the fact one can find pagans using eggs does not offer any connection between it and Easter eggs, for several reasons. First off, eggs are sort of a thing a lot of people use; one might as well decry the Jewish sacrifices at the Temple as being pagan because pagans did sacrifices. So a simple use or reference to an egg means nothing; it has to be something that actually bears real similarity to Easter eggs, and happened in a time and place that could have plausibly influenced the practice.

Which now brings us to the one thing that bears any kind of actual resemblance, the claim that the ancient Egyptians and Persians "had also the custom of colouring and eating eggs during their spring festival." Unfortunately, the Encyclopedia Britannica cites no source... or if it does, it's not specified by the article (which as noted does not specify which edition it is even referring to). The Encyclopedia Britannica is normally reliable, but there are still errors in it, so it's important to see its sources if possible. So I'm very skeptical of this claim. If it is true, then all someone has to do is offer a primary source for it to prove it.

But let's suppose that the statement about them painting eggs is true (again, I would really like to see a primary source for this). It is ambiguous as to what it means by "ancient" but we run into the obvious problem that Easter eggs by all appearances are a creation from around the 11th century--certainly no one has ever been able to show any reference to them before that time--which poses a major problem for the idea they took it from the Egyptians and Persians, namely the fact this practice would have died out a long time prior to when it was used in Easter, so no connection is plausible. And that is, I want to assume, even assuming this claim is true to begin with.

So not as bad as the previous section in that at least it's not claiming things that are so blatantly false, but it's still without evidence, and even if true, no connection seems possible. The actual source of the Easter Egg is most likely that people started doing it so they could use the eggs for something during Lent, when they couldn't eat the eggs.

The Encyclopedia Last Two Millions Pg. 216: “Pagan Rites Absorbed”

Easter, for instance, a time of sacrifice and rebirth in the Christian year, takes its name from the Norse goddess Eostre, in whose honor rites were held every spring. She in turn was simply a Northern version of the Phoenicians earth-mother Astarte, goddess of fertility. Easter eggs continue an-old age tradition in which the egg is a symbol of birth; and cakes which were eating to mark the festival of Astarte and Eostre where the direct ancestor of our hot-cross buns.

It is hard to know where to start with the errors here. Eostre--assuming, again, there ever was any Eostre--was an English deity, not a Norse one. There is no evidence whatsoever she had anything to do with Astarte. There is zero evidence that Eostre was involved at all with cakes, and even if she was, there could be no connection between hot cross buns as they are a creation of the 17th or 18th century, long after any such cake tradition had died out. So this source is just spouting nonsense.

The Encyclopedia Last Two Millions Pg. 84 “Belief that made a nation”

The Phoenicians, important though their achievement were as migrant traders and colonizers, seem to have developed a little conception nationhood. But the Hebrews or Jews, with relatively small in numbers though they were saw themselves from the start as a distant people because of their believe in Yahweh or Jehovah the only God. Orgiastic rites; devotees of Astarte were stimulated by music, wine and incense.

Hx. Book: Last 2Mil Yrs. Pg 216 & 84 "Pagan Rites Absorbed" The Catholic Church established churches where temples to pagan gods use to be. Easter/Eastra– heathen festival – easter – hot cross buns

“A Belief that made a nation” The celebration of Eastra/Astarte demanded sacred temple prostitutes, orgiastic rites (orgies), music and incense (weed).
This last portion is a little hard to parse out as to what is being quoted from what. But again, as there is no evidence of any connection between Eostre and Astarte outside of imagination, this means nothing either. Certainly, this indicates that "The Encyclopedia Last Two Millions" is a pretty poor source if it's repeating these inaccurate claims that have no actual basis.

None of your sources you offer appear able to offer any evidence whatsoever of their claims. That's because, once again, there is no evidence of so much of this. Some people offered wild speculations and then other people just copied those speculations as if they were fact, sometimes adding speculations on top of them which were in turn copied by others. Sometimes these errors, unfortunately, make it into encyclopedias who should know better.

So once again, we end up without evidence for so many of these claims, because, once again... there isn't evidence. That's why it's never provided.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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The Origins of Easter customs
Easter, also known as Pesach, Passover, and Nativity of our Lord has the bible as its origins for customs, such as gold, frankincense, and myrrh as gifts.

1769056288002.png
 
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The Liturgist

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The most widely-practiced customs on Easter Sunday relate to the symbol of the rabbit (‘Easter bunny’) and the egg. As outlined previously, a hare was a symbol associated with Eostre, representing the beginning of Springtime. Likewise, the egg has come to represent Spring, fertility, and renewal. In Germanic mythology, it is said that Ostara healed a wounded bird she found in the woods by changing it into a hare. Still partially a bird, the hare showed its gratitude to the goddess by laying eggs as gifts.

This is one of the most absurd arguments, since the majority of Christians worldwide who celebrate the feast call it Pascha or the fFeast of the Resurrection or the word Pascha adopted to their language. For example, the Dutch call the celebration of the Resurrection Passen, and in English we call it the Passover, for as the Bible makes clear, Christ is our Paschal lamb, and indeed is referred to explicitly as the Lamb of God in Revelation.

Easter is rather a peculiarity of the English language and a few other languages, not all Germanic languages even, for Dutch is a Germanic language and they don’t call the holiday Easter - its rather a bit like how we historically called Pentecost Whitsunday.

Arguments from local variations in nomenclature are logically fallacious and also in this case a Red Herring, since most Christians as noted do not use a word like Easter to refer to the feast.

Also, the idea that the word Easter is connected to a Pagan festival has itself been questioned, but I’m not even interested in engaging with that debate (in part because like most Orthodox Christians I refer to the feast as Pascha or the Resurrection).
 
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The Liturgist

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By the way @Bro.T on the subject of doing things not in the Bible, you know, posting on Internet forums is not in the Bible, right? Nor is the use of cars, telecommunications, air travel, et cetera.
 
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Jan001

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Where Did Christmas Come From?

World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed. The end of December was an especially significant time in the northern hemisphere. Days were short; nights long. The sun was at its lowest point. This called for the celebration of special festivals of thanksgiving and encouragement to the waning sun. When at the winter solstice in late December, the days began to lengthen once again, there was great festivity lasting into the first part of January. The reason was that the declining sun---the light of the world--had been reborn and began to gain in strength. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice ". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra (the Persian's Sun God) celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun).

The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away".

The simple fact is that, as more and more people from throughout the Western Roman Empire became converted to an increasingly popular Christianity, they brought many of their favorite customs with them. "The pagan [winter festivals of the] Saturnalia and Brumalia were too deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influence... The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in spirit or in manner... Christians of Mesopotamia accused their western brethren of idolatry and sun-worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival. Yet the festival rapidly gained acceptance and became at last so firmly entrenched that even the Protestant revolution of the sixteenth century was not able to dislodge it..." (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Volume III, article "Christmas.") You see this going on in churches today. Churches are constantly recruiting new members from other denominations and they often bring some aspect of their previous church to the new one. If you notice, many Christians today celebrate the Roman Catholic tradition of Lent. Historically, Lent, was not celebrated by Protestant churches.
The simple fact is that it does not matter!

Whether the pagans had or have a festival on December 25 or during the winter solstice, the Christians have and do celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ every year on December 25. It does not matter if Jesus Christ was actually born on December 25 or not. The astronomically darkest day of the year is the winter solstice, usually December 21. God creates all the days of every year. They all belong to him. If the pagans use his day to worship a pagan god, they are misusing God's good day. However, Christians worship the one true God on December 25. They are using God's good day for a good purpose.

I think it is the appropriate time to celebrate the birth of the Light of the world on December 25.


John 9:5
While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

Matthew 4:16
The people who lived in darkness have seen a great light, and for those who dwell in a land darkened by the shadow of death light has dawned.”
 
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The simple fact is that it does not matter!

Whether the pagans had or have a festival on December 25 or during the winter solstice, the Christians have and do celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ every year on December 25. It does not matter if Jesus Christ was actually born on December 25 or not. The astronomically darkest day of the year is the winter solstice, usually December 21. God creates all the days of every year. They all belong to him. If the pagans use his day to worship a pagan god, they are misusing God's good day. However, Christians worship the one true God on December 25. They are using God's good day for a good purpose.

I think it is the appropriate time to celebrate the birth of the Light of the world on December 25.


John 9:5
While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

Matthew 4:16
The people who lived in darkness have seen a great light, and for those who dwell in a land darkened by the shadow of death light has dawned.”
The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.
 
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Bro.T

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By the way @Bro.T on the subject of doing things not in the Bible, you know, posting on Internet forums is not in the Bible, right? Nor is the use of cars, telecommunications, air travel, et cetera.
You would have to show me some scriptures and verses on that, please. Until then let's focus on staying away from paganism.
 
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This is one of the most absurd arguments, since the majority of Christians worldwide who celebrate the feast call it Pascha or the fFeast of the Resurrection or the word Pascha adopted to their language. For example, the Dutch call the celebration of the Resurrection Passen, and in English we call it the Passover, for as the Bible makes clear, Christ is our Paschal lamb, and indeed is referred to explicitly as the Lamb of God in Revelation.

Easter is rather a peculiarity of the English language and a few other languages, not all Germanic languages even, for Dutch is a Germanic language and they don’t call the holiday Easter - its rather a bit like how we historically called Pentecost Whitsunday.

Arguments from local variations in nomenclature are logically fallacious and also in this case a Red Herring, since most Christians as noted do not use a word like Easter to refer to the feast.

Also, the idea that the word Easter is connected to a Pagan festival has itself been questioned, but I’m not even interested in engaging with that debate (in part because like most Orthodox Christians I refer to the feast as Pascha or the Resurrection).
I need to see some resource on that, please.
 
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Easter, also known as Pesach, Passover, and Nativity of our Lord has the bible as its origins for customs, such as gold, frankincense, and myrrh as gifts.

View attachment 375580
Then focus on the Bible term Passover, which is written in the word of God, and that you stay safe....here's why....Let's go into Revelation 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Stick with Passover, Passover is written in the word of God all the way from exodus thur Revelation. Stay away from man's tradition, because man's tradition is not written in the book of life. Pay attention!!
 
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Here you are just copying what someone else said. Now, you are giving credit, so that's not the problem, but rather the fact that just because someone else says something, doesn't automatically make it right. What matters is on what basis they say it. So, does this source offer any evidence?




This is just you repeating a claim I already refuted; granted, copied from a different source, but the same claim. Here is the thing: In the first place, it's not clear if there ever was any Eostre. We have only one evidence of Eostre in the historical record, a passing reference that said a month got named after her because there were feasts to her in it. That's it.

So the claim that Eostre--who may not have ever been worshipped to begin with and just been a post hoc guess as to where the name of the month came from--had any involvements with hares is pure speculation. There is zero source that attests to it. This was already pointed out, again, and it needs to be reiterated: Anyone who claims anyting about Eostre that Bede didn't say (and he didn't say much) is offering speculation.

Your article digs itself even deeper by making the even more ridiculous "In Germanic mythology, it is said that Ostara healed a wounded bird she found in the woods by changing it into a hare." This is flatly false, unless by "in Germanic mythology" it means "in wild speculations of the last century or two." Do you want to know the first mention of Ostara in the historical record? She is first mentioned in the 19th century when Jacob Grimm, trying to find evidence for Eostre (because there is nothing beyond Bede's brief reference) speculated that there was an Ostara who was a Germanic goddess who was Eostre's counterpart. This was a speculation on his part. Keep that in mind: The entire existence of this goddess was a speculation.

Now, if the goddess's very existence is a speculation of a 19th century writer, how in the world could there be any stories in German mythology about her healing a wounded bird? The answer is rather obvious: There aren't any such stories. The story the article puts forward is completely made up.

This is why no sources--let alone any primary sources--are cited. Because, again, these claims are made up. This is the sort of error that makes one wonder why they should take seriously anything in the article if it's going to mess things up this badly.

One might as well declare that Easter eggs and Easter bunnies come from the fact Jesus had a pet bunny and at the Last Supper painted an egg, and that is the source of these traditions. This claim actually stands on better ground than the Ostara story, surprisingly enough, because we have the Gospels as references to Jesus from the first century, whereas even the entire idea of Ostara was a total speculation from the 19th century.



Here, at least, we see a source cited (the Encyclopedia Britannica), though one can't help but be a bit annoyed about its lack of specificity as to which edition is being cited. It's also not a primary citation, or even something else citing a primary citation.

In the first place, the fact one can find pagans using eggs does not offer any connection between it and Easter eggs, for several reasons. First off, eggs are sort of a thing a lot of people use; one might as well decry the Jewish sacrifices at the Temple as being pagan because pagans did sacrifices. So a simple use or reference to an egg means nothing; it has to be something that actually bears real similarity to Easter eggs, and happened in a time and place that could have plausibly influenced the practice.

Which now brings us to the one thing that bears any kind of actual resemblance, the claim that the ancient Egyptians and Persians "had also the custom of colouring and eating eggs during their spring festival." Unfortunately, the Encyclopedia Britannica cites no source... or if it does, it's not specified by the article (which as noted does not specify which edition it is even referring to). The Encyclopedia Britannica is normally reliable, but there are still errors in it, so it's important to see its sources if possible. So I'm very skeptical of this claim. If it is true, then all someone has to do is offer a primary source for it to prove it.

But let's suppose that the statement about them painting eggs is true (again, I would really like to see a primary source for this). It is ambiguous as to what it means by "ancient" but we run into the obvious problem that Easter eggs by all appearances are a creation from around the 11th century--certainly no one has ever been able to show any reference to them before that time--which poses a major problem for the idea they took it from the Egyptians and Persians, namely the fact this practice would have died out a long time prior to when it was used in Easter, so no connection is plausible. And that is, I want to assume, even assuming this claim is true to begin with.

So not as bad as the previous section in that at least it's not claiming things that are so blatantly false, but it's still without evidence, and even if true, no connection seems possible. The actual source of the Easter Egg is most likely that people started doing it so they could use the eggs for something during Lent, when they couldn't eat the eggs.



It is hard to know where to start with the errors here. Eostre--assuming, again, there ever was any Eostre--was an English deity, not a Norse one. There is no evidence whatsoever she had anything to do with Astarte. There is zero evidence that Eostre was involved at all with cakes, and even if she was, there could be no connection between hot cross buns as they are a creation of the 17th or 18th century, long after any such cake tradition had died out. So this source is just spouting nonsense.


This last portion is a little hard to parse out as to what is being quoted from what. But again, as there is no evidence of any connection between Eostre and Astarte outside of imagination, this means nothing either. Certainly, this indicates that "The Encyclopedia Last Two Millions" is a pretty poor source if it's repeating these inaccurate claims that have no actual basis.

None of your sources you offer appear able to offer any evidence whatsoever of their claims. That's because, once again, there is no evidence of so much of this. Some people offered wild speculations and then other people just copied those speculations as if they were fact, sometimes adding speculations on top of them which were in turn copied by others. Sometimes these errors, unfortunately, make it into encyclopedias who should know better.

So once again, we end up without evidence for so many of these claims, because, once again... there isn't evidence. That's why it's never provided.
Of course I copy because I know and understand the different between God and Man. Also neither one of us was born in those days when all these pagan festivals and religion was added or try to be added to the word of God, so of course I'm gonna get my information from history. Even the Bible itself is history, but but now I have a source and you complaining about the facts, is looking like you just have a problem with believing the truth, and that's your problem. At this point I'm not going to go back-and-forth with you about Easter being pagan because now I have shown you source and I prove my opposition on the subject of Easter is being pagan, so this is a belief problem, so if you don't believe it then that's on you, but I'm not going to continue going back-and-forth about it. You ask for a source and you got it!!

peace in Jesus name
 
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Thank you for citing your source.



It's odd to me that the Ancient Origins author doesn't mention the most obvious reason to celebrate Easter near the date of Passover: Christians believe that Jesus was crucified during or near the feast of Passover. See, for example, Matthew 26 and John 13.



Are these really the most widely practiced customs, though? All around the world (not just the US and northwestern Europe), and back through the centuries? More common than, say, observing the Lenten fast and then breaking the fast on Easter Sunday? More common than gathering to read the Resurrection story and sing hymns? More common than declaring "Alleluia, Christ is risen!"?

Eggs make some sense to me, at least for Orthodox Christians. If you've had to abstain from eating eggs for weeks, getting to eat them again is a treat. And you might decorate the eggs that your chickens are laying in the meantime, because the chickens don't know it's Lent.

But I think the rabbit thing may be just from German- and English-speaking people in Europe and North America, which is a minority of Christians worldwide. Do you have sources saying that an Easter Bunny figure is also important to African and South American Christians?
Let me just ask you a question why does it bother you so much that you cannot observe the Passover as it's written in the word of God? Why do u have to be press on using Easter to you and you know that Easter carry a pagan religion behind it. You God don't deal with Man's tradition. Didn't Paul say in Colossians 2: 8 B eware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
 
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Leviticus 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's Passover.

Note what the book states. The Lord's Passover must be observed on the 14 day of the first month, which is the month of Abib. This month can be set by the new moon in the spring. In the 4th verse it states it must be observed in its season, any other time is wrong. Within the Roman Christian community, the bread and wine is taken every Sunday or every first Sunday. They also have changed the name of the Passover. They call it communion, sacrament or when someone's about to die they call it the last rites. When this is done it is done in vain. It must be taken when the Lord says it must be taken. Most people think the bread and the wine started when Jesus sat down with His apostles to eat the Passover. The King of Salem Melchizedek used the same tokens (bread and wine) when he met Abraham. The bread and the wine are very old. Some people call this the last supper. I find that very strange, because after the Lord's resurrection He ate with His apostles on the seaside. So that last supper statement is a myth. Now let's break the Passover down a little, and get the meaning of this High and Holy day. Let's go to Exodus chapter 12.

Exodus 12:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, 2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

Note what the verse says, this is the first month, the first month of the Year. This is when the New Year begins. Jacobs's elder brother Esau who calls himself a Jew states that the seventh month is also the beginning of the Year. But, the Lord states he has set the boundaries of all the sons of Adam according to the number of Israel. Israel has 12 tribes, so that let's you know there are twelve months in a year, not seven. The Lord picked twelve apostles, New Jerusalem will have twelve gates with twelve angels standing at them etc. Let's continue.

Exodus 12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: 4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. 5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

Take a look at verse 5. Notice the lamb must be without blemish, a male of the first year, in other words this lamb has to be perfect and be the first born. This lamb represents the Lamb of God, which is Jesus. Jesus did not commit any sin. That would make him without blemish. He also was the first born of Mary, just like the lamb in verse 5 above. Jesus wasn't the only child that Mary had He was simply the first born.

Exodus 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

They must keep the lamb until the 14th day of the month and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. Jesus death came to pass the same way. All Israel that knew they were Israel had to return to Jerusalem and observe the Passover. And Jesus was killed on the Passover and was taken off the cross at even (sun down).

Exodus 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

Once the lamb was killed they put the blood over the door post. The blood protected Israel from the death angel that came through Egypt that night. It wasn't enough for the Lamb to die, but whoever put the blood over the door post was placed under the blood of the lamb. Israel was no cleaner than the Egyptians. The Book states a mix multitude came out from Egypt with Israel, this lets you know that other peoples had believed in the God of Israel. In other words, by putting the blood over the door post their faith in God delivered them.

Exodus 12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S Passover. 12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

Notice what the Lord says, "I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast." If the people were not under the blood of the Lamb their first born would die.

Exodus 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

The blood shall be a token and when the Lord sees the blood He will Passover you. This is were the word Passover came from. It means exactly that, Passover. The Lord will Passover you when He sees the blood of the Lamb. When the Lord shed his blood for us, we had to come under His blood. Why? Every man born of woman has some type of sin. Once you bring yourself under the blood of Jesus the Lord will pass over your past sins. Once you have done that, you must try not to sin willfully. If you do, you will die for your own sins when you continue to sin willfully. To make it plain and simple, If the Lord doesn't Passover your sins He will destroy you.

Now let's connect the Passover to Jesus so you will have no doubt in your mind what all this represents. Most people think the Old Testament and the New Testament are separated. That's not so. The New Book is the spirit of prophecy, in other words it is the word of prophecy. Let's go to Matthew the 26th chapter and watch how both the Old and the New work together.

Matthew 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the Passover?

Notice what's being said, they called the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the Passover. The Passover takes place the day before the Feast of Unleavened Bread it is outlined in Leviticus 23 and Exodus the 12th chapter. When Moses and the children of Israel came out of Egypt they left in haste. The bread did not have a chance to rise. That is why they called the Passover the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

Matthew 26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the Passover at thy house with my disciples.

Did the verse say I will eat the last supper at your house? No! It states, "I will keep the Passover at your house.

Matthew 26:19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the Passover.

The disciples made ready the Passover not the last supper. As I mentioned earlier, Jesus ate several times after this. Let's move on.

Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Jesus did not change the Passover, He changed the ordinance. Remember in Exodus the 12th chapter they took a Lamb every year, killed, and ate it. Being that Jesus represents the lamb, He wasn't going to die every Passover. He was sent to die one time for all that bring themselves under His blood. So, He used the bread and wine to replace the lamb. Notice what he says "Take, eat; this is my body." He gave us the bread and the wine to replace His body just as He replaced the lamb.

So Jesus says in Matthew 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Notice what the Lord says, “This is the blood of the New Testament or New covenant.” But notice something very important. He says shed for many, not for all. Why did He say many? Because, you must do the same thing they did in Egypt. If you fail to put the blood over your door post, the death angel will get you. You simply must be under the Lord's protection or under His blood. How do you get that protection? You must confess that Jesus is Lord, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38). You must walk in the new covenant, which are the same old Ten Commandments the Lord gave the people Himself on Mount Sinai.The Lord says, "If you love Him keep His commandments. So, if you love Him so much, you should have no problem walking in His Laws. Which includes the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week.

After the death of Jesus let’s take a look what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11: 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

Notice that ye do this until the Lord come, which is the second coming of Jesus, brothers and Sisters. Also this passover is done once a year, according to the scriptures.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Now let's see who Jesus is to us. I Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:

Paul says, "Purge out therefore the old leaven". In other words purge yourself of sin, and become a new lump, being unleaven. Meaning one that is not sinful, why? Christ is our Passover and he was sacrificed for us. Just like the lamb in Exodus was their sacrifice Christ is ours. Remember, it was the blood of the lamb that protected the children of Israel in Egypt, and for us it is the blood of Christ that will protect us. If you don't bring yourself under the blood, when death comes about, you will die for yourself even the second death, which is the LAKE OF FIRE.

The Passover represents the passing over of your sins, and the only way your sins will be passed over is if you bring yourself under the blood of the Lamb.
 
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