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Is America a police state (if you are not white)?

Oompa Loompa

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I guess you missed the update today. Trump said her death was a tragedy and that “They're (ICE) going to make mistakes. Sometimes, ICE is going to be too rough with somebody. You know, you deal with rough people…”

Of course what provoked this 180 was him being told that her father is allegedly a huge MAGA supporter. You know, the thing that always prompts his good opinion. You can invade an entire government building and be a great dude as long as you like Trump, per Trump.
All I am saying is that the odds of getting shot by a police officer are never zero, but it is considerably higher than zero if you go out of your way to mess with them.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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All I am saying is that the odds of getting shot by a police officer are never zero, but it is considerably higher than zero if you go out of your way to mess with them.
Ok so police carrying out street judgments that could include execution? So that’s not normal, nor is it a sign of a healthy and effective policing of the general populace. A police force of Tackleberrys is not the goal.

And, I’d also like to add that during my time working at a police department, nobody ever started their shift saying “the odds of getting shot by me are never zero so don’t mess with me.” In fact, they spent a considerable amount of time… Far more time, actually… Learning how to not shoot people than they did how to shoot them. Because that is the goal. Or at least it was.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Oompa Loompa

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Ok so police carrying out street judgments that could include execution? So that’s not normal, nor is it a sign of a healthy and effective policing of the general populace. A police force of Tackleberrys is not the goal.

And, I’d also like to add that during my time working at a police department, nobody ever started their shift saying “the odds of getting shot by me are never zero so don’t mess with me.” In fact, they spent a considerable amount of time… Far more time, actually… Learning how to not shoot people than they did how to shoot them. Because that is the goal. Or at least it was.
Nothing about my statement was inaccurate and nothing you stated changed that fact. But if you want to increase your chances of becoming a martyr for your cause, who am I to stop you.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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curious - what do you think caused the officers internal bleeding after being struck by her vehicle?
Delusion…? Fabrication…? An effort to cover his behind…? If I were to believe the officer (I don’t) or the government (I don’t), I know “internal bleeding” is a vague and meaningless descriptor. As an EMT, if I gave a patient report as “internal bleeding,” I’d be told that’s not a valid report and to be more specific. Since that’s what they told us as bottom feeder EMTs, I find it impossible to believe that is an actual doctor’s diagnosis after treatment. And the fact that he was treated and released tells me that any “internal bleeding” he had was superficial.

Actually, my husband rightly pointed out how I was taken to the hospital in severe abdominal pain and they found free-floating blood in my abdomen from a non-trauma. I was hospitalized for more than a week. How much blood did they find, you ask? Well, during surgery they removed the equivalent of 2.75 tablespoons of blood. 2.75 tablespoons, no trauma, and issues like pain management, potential for sepsis, cardiac issues (it made me severely tachycardic) and monitoring to ensure I wasn’t actively slow-bleeding from an organ kept me there a week. I had debilitating pain to the point of delusion, two surgeries, had to be wheeled in to the ER and sedated because I was in so much pain, 7+ days inpatient over 2.75 tablespoons of blood.

So forgive me if I think officer Tackleberry may be misrepresenting his injuries a tad.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Nothing about my statement was inaccurate and nothing you stated changed that fact. But if you want to increase your chances of becoming a martyr for your cause, who am I to stop you.
I actually pointed out all the inaccurate things. You disagree, but disagreement doesn’t mean I’m wrong.

An effective, well-trained, properly monitored police force doesn’t have a motto “the chances of getting shot by is never zero, so comply or we will shoot you.” Or, again, it didn’t during my years working as a 911 dispatcher and EMT at my department. Shooting was last resort, not primary threat to force compliance.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Let's see - Authorized law enforcement acting in their constitutional authority are arresting murderers, baby rapist - thugs and illegal Aliens -
You write this as if they are arresting people *because* the are murders and rapists. The data does not support this. Who are these "violent criminals" being arrested by ICE? People who have served their time or those awaiting trial. They aren't hunting down fugitives from justice or solving unsolved crimes. They are arresting people without valid immigration papers and some of them happen to be ex-cons and persons with pending charges. In one case justice has been served as to their crimes in the other they are *interrupting* the application of justice by deporting people (or preparing to) without being convicted for the crimes they have committed.

Short version: ICE is arresting people for deportation because they don't have legal status, not because they are investigating crimes or serving justice. (This *is* what ICE is for, enforcing immigration law. Let's not pretend they are cleaning the streets of violent criminals like local cops would.)
The lunatic left
It's not just the "left", not even close, particularly in the twin cities. The opposition is widespread in political ideologies. Basically everyone except the "deport them all" crowd is participating at some level.
passes out whistles - follows them around honking their horns
Blowing whistles, following ICE, honking horns, and videoing their operations are all protected First Amendment activities.
and attempting to blockade the law enforcement officers
It is only a crime if they physically impede passage.
- shoots fireworks at them - attempts to hit them with vehicles -
I've heard a couple reports of these, but that is all.
verbally assaults people during a worship service -
Now your talking about one incident that didn't even involve ICE. The people who broke in likely committed some misdemeanors (trespass or whatever), but that can be discussed on the active thread on that incident.

One further note, though: "verbal asssault" is not "assualt" and not a crime. Not in the church and not when shouted from 10 feet away at ICE troopers.
and some think they are the problem?

Unbelievable.
I do.
FWIW I'm not white and I think they are nutz
I don't care. You've had enough fun playing with the others on this line. I'm not interested.
 
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MarkSB

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The likelihood of winning stupid prizes is considerably less if you don't play stupid games. Especially when if involves playing stupid games with law enforcement officers.

And that makes sense as a counterpoint how, exactly? Either she was trying to run them over, or she wasn’t.
 
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Bradskii

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curious - what do you think caused the officers internal bleeding after being struck by her vehicle?
You do know that inernal bleeding is simply a bruise? I've got 'internal bleeding' on my thigh because I bumped into the dining table yesterday. Luckily I wasn't armed. I might have started shooting people in the face.

If you had decent gun laws then he'd have his gun licence taken from him. He showed to the world that he's not responsible to carry. As your president said (so it must be true) Ice sometimes makes mistakes.

You going to contradict him? Hmm. Bit of a quandry there perhaps...
 
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Oompa Loompa

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I actually pointed out all the inaccurate things. You disagree, but disagreement doesn’t mean I’m wrong.

An effective, well-trained, properly monitored police force doesn’t have a motto “the chances of getting shot by is never zero, so comply or we will shoot you.” Or, again, it didn’t during my years working as a 911 dispatcher and EMT at my department. Shooting was last resort, not primary threat to force compliance.
Anytime there is a gun, the odds of getting shot is never zero, and if you go around looking for trouble with law enforcement, the odds of getting shot get much higher. That is a fact. Stupid games earn stupid prizes, and I highly discourage you from playing stupid games with ICE agents unless you want to increase your odds of getting shot.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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And that makes sense as a counterpoint how, exactly? Either she was trying to run them over, or she wasn’t.
As I previously stated, I do not think she was intentionally trying to run anyone over. Just that she was in such a state of panic that she did not care if anyone was ran over.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Anytime there is a gun, the odds of getting shot is never zero, and if you go around looking for trouble with law enforcement, the odds of getting shot get much higher.
Which is indicative of a broken policing system. Shooting people for “causing trouble” is not a valid reason for an officer-led shooting. The only valid reason of an officer-led shooting is self-defense or defense of an onlooker from an active and imminent loss of life.

Being big mad over being called fat by a lesbian or the woman with a whistle, no ID, and a personal body alarm videotaping you is not a valid reason.

That is a fact. Stupid games earn stupid prizes, and I highly discourage you from playing stupid games with ICE agents unless you want to increase your odds of getting shot.
Just blindly accepting that as a fact is sad. Blindly accepting that as fact and thinking that’s fine is even sadder.
 
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wing2000

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Blowing whistles, following ICE, honking horns, and videoing their operations are all protected First Amendment activities.

Interesting take....from a sociologist:

".....the vast majority of men are only willing to engage in public violence if they feel like the people around them will approve of — and reward them for — that violence.

ICE Watch works because it surrounds men seeking approval with people loudly expressing their disapproval. "



 
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Oompa Loompa

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Which is indicative of a broken policing system. Shooting people for “causing trouble” is not a valid reason. The only valid reason is self-defense or defense of an onlooker from an active and imminent loss of life.

Being big mad over being called fat by a lesbian or the woman with a whistle, no ID, and a personal body alarm videotaping you is not a valid reason.


Just blindly accepting that as a fact is sad. Blindly accepting that as fact and thinking that’s fine is even sadder.
I never said it was fine. It is just a fact. What i think is sad is how despite your thought about the policing system being broken, you still think it is a good idea to obstruct law enforcement.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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I never said it was fine. It is just a fact. What i think is sad is how despite your thought about the policing system being broken, you still think it is a good idea to obstruct law enforcement.
Nothing I described is obstructing law enforcement. I’m not standing in their way. I’m not physically intimidating them. I’m not attacking them. I’m blowing a whistle, pulling an alarm on my person, and videoing them. None of that stops them from performing their duties, as we’ve seen. Might as well say a fire alarm that notifies everybody in the house of the presence of fire makes it too hard for fire fighters to put out fires so we should just warn people who have them they may get shot.

I believe in non-violent malicious compliance and maintaining my rights through following the very letter of the law in my interactions. I know what they are and aren’t allowed to ask me, what I must tell them and what I can withhold or demand. If that means they’re wasting their time with me as opposed to bothering somebody less informed, my job is done.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Nothing I described is obstructing law enforcement. I’m not standing in their way. I’m not physically intimidating them. I’m not attacking them. I’m blowing a whistle, pulling an alarm on my person, and videoing them. None of that stops them from performing their duties, as we’ve seen. Might as well say a fire alarm that notifies everybody in the house of the presence of fire makes it too hard for fire fighters to put out fires so we should just warn people who have them they may get shot.

I believe in non-violent malicious compliance and maintaining my rights through following the very letter of the law in my interactions. I know what they are and aren’t allowed to ask me, what I must tell them and what I can withhold or demand. If that means they’re wasting their time with me as opposed to bothering somebody less informed, my job is done.
Every minute they spend dealing with me is a minute they’re not getting somebody else.
That is obstruction.
 
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wing2000

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MN Police Chiefs news conference today.....chief of Brooklyn Park (Minneaoplis suburb) notes both citizens and off-duty police officers of color have been stopped based on racial profiling.

 
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Tropical Wilds

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That is obstruction.
It is not. Obstruction is when you use illegal means to impair their ability to do their job. Relying on legal means to prioritize my rights that happens to make more work for them is not and, I might add, is the whole point of having rights in a free society.
 
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wing2000

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MN Police Chiefs news conference today.....chief of Brooklyn Park (Minneaoplis suburb) notes both citizens and off-duty police officers of color have been stopped based on racial profiling.


....and from the same press conference.....on ICE accountability, lack of command-and-control, ICE superiors not knowing where their agents are at any given time, the lack of agent identification etc.

 
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Oompa Loompa

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It is not. Obstruction is when you use illegal means to impair their ability to do their job. Relying on legal means to prioritize my rights that happens to make more work for them is not and, I might add, is the whole point of having rights in a free society.
Yes, it is. You are openly admitting that your intention is to delay a federal law enforcement. Which is obstruction in accordance with 18 U.S.C. § 1510. Now, you know I am black. I respectfully ask that you stop trying to be my female white knight trying to come to my rescue.
 
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