It does not answer the question as to why the brain should be non physical and non local particularly when the mathematics used by Strapp shows otherwise.
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Although I don't believe this apparently scientists believe life formed on its own
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Try to understand it is not what it is not what Strapp is stating but what you are stating.
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stevevw
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Then why does he say that the Mind cannot be reduced to the physical brain. Why does he say that its the observers free conscious observation, measure and choice that collapses the wave function to a real event.
Once again here is Ai
'
Henry Stapp argues that conscious choices play a causal role in collapsing the quantum wave function, transforming a superposition of potentialities into a definite reality, suggesting consciousness isn't just an observer but an active participant in shaping the physical world, connecting the mental and physical realms through quantum mechanics. He proposes that our psychological choices (like deciding what to measure) determine which potential outcome manifests from the quantum possibilities, allowing for free will to impact the physical world.
So even Ai finds enough info out there as the most popular that aligns with my claim. I am not deluded and its a fact that this is what Stapp is saying.
Anyway I have had enough. You can believe what you want.
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It has nothing to do with what I believe but what the mathematics of Stapp's model tells us which also explains how a physical brain comes into existence:
(1) The quantum state acted upon is a global (nonlocal) wavefunction defined over the combined system, apparatus, environment, and brain Hilbert spaces from which brain states arise.
(2) Entanglement arises from physical interactions governed by quantum mechanics resulting in the system, apparatus, environment, and brain becoming entangled forming a nonlocal quantum state.
(3) Environmental decoherence from factors such as light and heat acts locally on macroscopic systems (such as the apparatus and brain), reducing the number of possible alternatives while not yet selecting a unique outcome.
(4) A conscious experience is associated with a physically localized change in the brain states, and since the brain is entangled with the rest of the measuring system, this localized brain event is accompanied by a global reduction of the quantum state, resulting in a single outcome of a physical brain and a corresponding local conscious experience.
As explained in previous posts point (3) is a problem as the neural processes in the brain are far too slow compared to the decoherence times which are orders of magnitude faster making it impossible for point (4) to occur.
It is for this reason despite your denials the role of consciousness in QM is not at all popular.
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stevevw
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Just explain what Stapp meant by the Mind not being reduced to the physical brain and that it is the observers conscious free choice that collapses the wave function.
You asked for shorter posts. Here it is. Just explain a simple claim from Stapp. What he actually meant by these words.
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Ophiolite
Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
I have given you a "Like" because you have delivered a concise post. I offer you a non-patronising "well done". I would have awarded a "Winner" if you had given the precise words written by Stapp; a proper citation of where those words were to be found; and an active link to the source.
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You are being far too generous.
You should ask him why he refuses to accept admitting being wrong given Stapp's own words of a local consciousness and a physical brain contradicts his own take on Stapp proposing a non physical brain and nonlocal consciousness.
Demanding I explain what Stapp's statement means has nothing to do with this and is either an obfuscating tactic or yet another example of gross incompetence in thinking he is making a valid argument.
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You are not fooling anyone, this is about your inability of answering my question on what leads you to the conclusion that Strapp advocates a non physical brain and nonlocal consciousness despite his words and the mathematics stating the exact opposite.
Since you are into fallacy identification this one is about shifting the burden of proof, if there is a connection between the two the onus is on you on answering the question not me
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Ophiolite
Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Well if you favour slanging matches over nuanced, cautious, yet progressive advances towards agreement and enlightment, then let me say what a bunch of juvenile, immature nonsense your post is. Full of the usual arrogance and closed mind that infests your posts.
Now, be honest. Was my approach there useful? I suggest not. We should reward positive steps. Every good parent knows this. It works with toddlers, it works with school kids, it even works with teenagers and, not surprisingly it keeps on working until death, or dementia claim the individual.
So, I was not being too generous. I was rightly applauding a small step (from my perspective) and a huge step (from his perspective). And for what its worth, (which you may consider to be nothing), I would be interested in the answer to his question. It would help educate me.
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Let me answer the question then.
The mind does not reduce to a physical brain.
In post #446 point (4) reproduced here for reference:
(4) A conscious experience is associated with a physically localized change in the brain states, and since the brain is entangled with the rest of the measuring system, this localized brain event is accompanied by a global reduction of the quantum state, resulting in a single outcome of a physical brain and a corresponding local conscious experience.
The role of the mind in Stapp's model is to select a range of brain states which forms a statistical mixture of physical brains after decoherence has occurred.
The localized brain event is the application of the Born rule where each brain state has a probability and the final selection is non deterministic.
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Ophiolite
Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Thank you. That is useful, but could I explain that to some else? No. Which means I don't actually understand it. I'll reflect on it some more and look through some of your earlier posts and see if it makes more sense. QM has little obvious impact on the world of geology and drilling technology I have inhabited for half a century.
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stevevw
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Oh I already did that. Its not fair. Here are a couple.
Mindful Universe
The physically described aspects of nature were asserted to be completely determined by prior physically described aspects alone, with our conscious experiences entering only passively. During the twentieth century the classical concepts were found to be inadequate. In the new theory, quantum mechanics, our conscious experiences enter into the dynamics in specified ways not fixed by the physically described aspects alone. Consequences of this radical change in our understanding of the connection between mind and brain are described.
https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783642180750
Physicalism versus quantum mechanics
A specific new model of the mind-brain connection that is fundamentally quantum mechanical but that ties conscious experiences to these macroscopic synchronous oscillations is used to illustrate the essential disparities between the classical and quantum notions of the physical, and in particular to demonstrate the failure in the quantum world of the principle of the causal closure of the physical, a failure that goes beyond what is entailed by the randomness in the outcomes of observations, and that accommodates the efficacy in the brain of conscious intent.
Physicalism versus quantum mechanics
In the context of theories of the connection between mind and brain, physicalism is the demand that all is basically purely physical. But the concept of "physical" embodied in this demand is characterized essentially by the properties of the physical that hold in classical physical theories...
arxiv.org
Quantum theory and the role of mind in nature
The present work examines and proposes solutions to two problems that have appeared to block the development of this conception of nature. The first problem is how to reconcile this theory with the principles of relativistic quantum field theory; the second problem is to understand whether, strictly within quantum theory, a person's mind can affect the activities of his brain, and if so how.
Quantum theory and the role of mind in nature
Orthodox Copenhagen quantum theory renounces the quest to understand the reality in which we are imbedded, and settles for practical rules describing connections between our observations. Many physicist have regarded this renunciation of our effort to describe nature herself as premature, and...
arxiv.org
On The Nature of Things: Human Presence in the World of Atoms
A new theory was needed, and was duly created. It accounts with fantastic accuracy for the empirical data both old and new. The core difference between the two theories is that in the earlier classical theory all causal effects in the world of matter are reducible to the action of matter upon matter, whereas in the new theory our conscious thoughts and mental efforts play an essential and irreducible role in the determination of the evolving material properties of the physically described world.
Points of Contact Between the Stappian Philosophy and Emergent Aspect Dualism
Henry Stapp is well known for his advanced views of Quantum Physics and particularly for development of the view that the mind of the observer is intimately involved in the collapse of the wave function when an observation is made.
Points of Contact Between the Stappian Philosophy and Emergent Aspect Dualism - Activitas Nervosa Superior
Henry Stapp is well known for his advanced views of Quantum Physics and particularly for development of the view that the mind of the observer is intimately involved in the collapse of the wave function when an observation is made. He expands this view to a cosmic mind conceptualization that, in...
link.springer.com
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stevevw
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The basis for this change came from the governments own research they claimed that the science shows biological sex is on a spectrum and gender identity was a scientific fact that makes gender identity have the same status as sex inder the anti descrimination laws.
yes I agree
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stevevw
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If you are basing this on words then why are you not answering the simple question I asked as to what his words meant when he said that consciousness cannot be reduced to the physical brain. If Stapp equated the physical brain and consciousness as the same. Or that consciousness was a physical product then why would he say that the Mind cannot be reduced to the physical brain.
Why would he then clearly say that consciousness observations and free choice collapse the wave function into reality. That means the Mind is creating the reality by the observation and conscious focus nd free choice as to what is given attention. This speaks dirtectly the the wave function being brought into reality by the Mind.
Stapp clearly seperates the physical brain from the conscious mind and gives the mind causal power. Most definitely.
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I did answer your question in my response to @Ophiolite where at least the answer was acknowledged and to his credit admitted he didn't understand it but is open to learning more about the subject.
Compare this to your Dunning Kruger type responses, where you not even have the vaguest understanding of how totally irrelevant your replies are in addressing why the mathematics and Stapp's very words contradict your idea of the brain being non physical and the consciousness being nonlocal.
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