Minneapolis ICE shooting: Toxic empathy vs. the rule of law

Vanellus · Wednesday at 2:27 PM

ChubbyCherub said:
just scream and abuse law enforcement with impunity.

Just to repeat Renee Good didn't scream at anyone before she was killed. She drove away as she had been asked to.

ChubbyCherub · Wednesday at 2:37 PM

Vanellus said:
Just to repeat Renee Good didn't scream at anyone before she was killed. She drove away as she had been asked to.

Ok, but apparently hit the man and caused internal bleeding.

Michie · Wednesday at 2:39 PM

The Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent who fatally shot Renee Good last week in Minneapolis, Jonathan Ross, suffered internal bleeding to the torso following the incident, according to two U.S. officials briefed on his medical condition.

Continued below.

ICE agent who shot Renee Good suffered internal bleeding, officials say

Jonathan Ross, who shot Renee Good in Minneapolis last week, suffered internal bleeding after the incident, two officials said, though it's not clear how extensive the bleeding was.

www.cbsnews.com

ChubbyCherub · Wednesday at 2:45 PM

Helmut-WK said:
You will not risk your life, unless you meet some co-prisoner who wants to kill an American, or whatever may happen in prison …

This also hold for violence used by law enforcement.
Training policemen (and -women) in techniques of de-escalation is part of a program to improve the work of the police.

The manner of a SWAT team (SEK is the German abbreviation) is different, of course but the odds are that you will never get into the focus of such an unit.

Why would I be in prison, risking my life for or as an American....? I don't understand that statement. In the event I was in prison, I would not be mouthing off, gesticulating in a threatening manner, using my bed or sheets as an inferred weapon etc.

We are accountable for our own actions. We cannot ensure, guarantee or always accurately predict another person's actions so we must react (or not react) in an abundance of caution. Police are human and subject to stress and all other human emotions. Folly to think that they are above this just because they are 'trained'. Lots of 'training' fails in the heat of a moment and this holds true for many skills and professions.

As a result of their training, they are held to higher standards under the law, but why test those standards with our lives when we could have just walked off?

Anyway, I have nothing further to say on this matter. I think education regarding self-preservation, managing expectations with regards to law enforcement and humanity in general, is sorely lacking.

It's a pity because people find out the hard way that we're not all in a television series or a video game where you can pick a fairy tale ending or come back after a fatality.

I am going to pray for that woman's children. They lost a mother, whatever the circumstances, and that is very sad.

FredG3 · Wednesday at 2:54 PM

Yarddog said:
I hope that you're joking. Fox is known for being untrustworthy, this administration is full of liars, etc... Nothing is good enough from those sources.

I'd be nice if they provided links to Minnesota law enforcement shows actually court transcripts.

Again, ICE has lied about so many issues and the government is hiding facts about the investigations.

Left leaning sites give news favoring the left. I'd like court transcripts.

That's why I try to search for news outlets on both sides. What is really noticeable is that I tried search for several of the names on the ICE list and they did not come up on any of the traditional left leaning sites at all - not even to say "alleged" or "accused".

So, to go with the court transcript, I've attached the record I found for MAHAD ABDULKADIR YUSEF, from one of the ICE articles. He was convicted on 7/10/24 for "Assault, Crim Sex (609.101.2); Criminal Sexual Conduct-3rd Degree-Penalty (609.344.2(1)); Dangerous Sex Offenders - Presumptive Executed Sentence for Repeat Sex Offenders (609.3455.10)" He was ordered to 3645 days in jail, down from 2 years, which was then reduced again to supervised probation instead of jail time.
A search for Sriudorn Phaivan shows 23 cases including a conviction in 10/2/23 for "Predatory Offender - Intentionally provides false information (243.166.5(a)(2))", on 6/29/22 for " Theft - Value over $5,000 or trade secret, explosive, Controlled Substance I or II (609.52.3(2))" and the same charge conviction on 1/13/21, on 11/15/19 for "TRESP-OCC LKD DWELL", on 8/25/14 for "Criminal Sexual Conduct-2nd Degree-Penalty-Stat. Max. (609.343.2(a))" listing victim under 13", onb 3/18/11 for "Criminal Sexual Conduct-2nd Degree-Penalty-Stat. Max. (609.343.2(a))"

That's 2 for 2 so far on court record search in Minnesota for the claims by ICE.

Vanellus · Wednesday at 3:09 PM

ChubbyCherub said:
I think if you reread what I typed, this will answer your question.

I won't be insulted if you answer the question directly and unambiguously.

ChubbyCherub · Wednesday at 3:10 PM

Vanellus said:
I won't be insulted if you answer the question directly and unambiguously.

Ok, but your feelings aren't my responsibility.

Have a good day x

Vanellus · Wednesday at 3:18 PM

ChubbyCherub said:
Ok, but apparently hit the man and caused internal bleeding.

Ross was released the same day from the hospital and the testimony you refer to was from "officials" (nfi) so not hospital staff. A media request for further information was unsuccessful. It was reported that Ross was driven to the hospital though he was also seen to drive himself away from the scene of the shooting. Ross had been involved in a more serious incident previously in June where he had been dragged along by a car for some distance.

Vanellus · Wednesday at 3:19 PM

ChubbyCherub said:
Ok, but your feelings aren't my responsibility.

Have a good day x

I see no reason why you can't give a simple answer to a simple question.

ChubbyCherub · Wednesday at 3:21 PM

Vanellus said:
I see no reason why you can't give a simple answer to a simple question.

I see no reason why you don't already have the answer to your question and I feel like you are deliberately goading with malintent.

As a result, I do not wish to continue down this path with you.

We can agree to disagree without enmity.

God bless x

Valletta · Wednesday at 3:51 PM

Vanellus said:
Just to repeat Renee Good didn't scream at anyone before she was killed. She drove away as she had been asked to.

She peeled out with an ICE agent in front of her. The agent survived although he had internal bleeding.

Vanellus · Wednesday at 4:41 PM

Valletta said:
She peeled out with an ICE agent in front of her. The agent survived although he had internal bleeding.

Not directly in front: Ross was standing next to the left headlight and Renee steered to the right i.e. away from him. Renee can't be held responsible for the speed of the car after she was shot which happened immediately after the car started to move forward. Ross was discharged from hospital on the same day and was seen walking about normally after the shooting.

Valletta · Wednesday at 5:23 PM

Vanellus said:
This is the blame the victim narrative. You reach into your pocket for a handkerchief, you're shot dead, you don't reach for a handkerchief, make a sudden loud noise (i.e. sneeze) you're shot dead, you're told to drive away, you drive away not harming anyone you're shot dead. ICE agents are not paid by the government, they're paid by citizens through taxation. They are public servants not public slave masters like in OT Egypt where someone called Moses took violent action against the government! Except Renee Good didn't kill anyone or hurt anyone.

Wearing a uniform doesn't put someone automatically in the right. There are so many cases when men in uniform massacred unarmed civilians e.g a certain Sunday in St Petersburg in 1905 and another Sunday in Londonderry in 1972 or a Monday in Manchester in 1819. If you take the "government is always right and the people are always wrong" view then these massacres and the many others like them should be celebrated as times when the lawful government asserted their right to murder the country's citizens with impunity. Is that what you think?

It may not be true for you but it seems to me that some people in this forum have adopted a particular line for partisan political reasons, not based on what actually happened.

The ICE officer is a victim, all because on an individual choose to violate federal law in multiple instances. Even though he knows it was in the line of duty he has to live with the fact that he killed another human being. Yes he was close to potentially losing his life and yes he acted as his training requires, but he still has to live with it.

Vanellus · Thursday at 2:08 AM

Valletta said:
Yes he was close to potentially losing his life

Not according to the video evidence.

Helmut-WK · Thursday at 3:06 AM

ChubbyCherub said:
Ok, but apparently hit the man and caused internal bleeding.

Did she hit him when she draw back away from him, or when he was on the side of her car and he shot at her?

Who said he had internal bleedings? Any hospital? Or is this just another lie from ICE or so?

Helmut-WK · Thursday at 3:12 AM

ChubbyCherub said:
Why would I be in prison, risking my life for or as an American....? I don't understand that statement.

You said it would be a matter of life or death in any country. I replied that in Germany (and I am sure many other countries, the consequences are less severe. I explained this in more details, because you did object to it.

Mrs. Good made a mistake. It caused her death in Minneapolis, but a similar mistake in other countries would be not that fatal. If you don't want to test that, ok. But don't say »in every county«, when it is only true in uncivilized countries, and in the USA.

Helmut-WK · Thursday at 3:18 AM

Vanellus said:
Not directly in front: Ross was standing next to the left headlight and Renee steered to the right i.e. away from him.

To be more precise: He was indeed standing in front of her, then she drove backwards, and what followed next is what you said.

Vanellus said:
Ross … and was seen walking about normally after the shooting.

With internal bleeding, you may walk quite normally for several minutes.

But it is not clear whether the bleedings came from Mrs. Good driving away from him., or from an incident before, when he was dragged by a car …

Helmut-WK · Thursday at 3:20 AM

Valletta said:
Yes he was close to potentially losing his life

That's a lie. The car fist drove away from him, then changed the course to drive right of him.

Trogdor the Burninator · Thursday at 3:23 AM

Helmut-WK said:
Did she hit him when she draw back away from him, or when he was on the side of her car and he shot at her?

Who said he had internal bleedings? Any hospital? Or is this just another lie from ICE or so?

Knocked hard enough to supposedly have internal bleeding, but still able to stand on his feet on icy ground while barely moving and continue shooting into the car. Apparently the laws of physics were suspended that day.

Helmut-WK · Thursday at 5:17 AM

Trogdor the Burninator said:
Knocked hard enough to supposedly have internal bleeding, but still able to stand on his feet on icy ground while barely moving and continue shooting into the car. Apparently the laws of physics were suspended that day.

Well, internal bleeding sometimes cause problems only after some time, this is no argument.

Fact is:

If you combine the info from all the known videos, he was not knocked down.
There is no information from a hospital, only allegations from ICE.
He suffered another attack some days ago, which may be the cause of internal bleeding.

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