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ICE Violently Detained 2 U.S. Citizens While at Work at Target.
- Thread starter MarcusGregor
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Hans Blaster
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Frankly, no.
Large retail corporations are not habitual and knowing employers of unauthorized workers. That doesn't mean someone with fake papers doesn't work there, but a big box store is not the same as a field laborer, day labor construction worker, back room restaurant or hotel worker. Those are the kinds of employment situations Kavanaugh was referring to when creating his "exception" to prohibitions on warrantless detention.
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So are you suggesting they said "hey, let's go to this store completely at random and go for anyone darker than khaki"?
If a store or establishment is either suspected of (or has a past history of) employing undocumented workers, is everyone suppose to ignore the statistics & dynamics in the name of political correctness?
If you were with a counter-extremism taskforce, and got a tip that a local store was believed to be employing someone who was a leader in a neo-nazi group...
And the 5 employees standing there were 3 Asian ladies, a Black guy....and a white guy with his head shaved. Who would you be focused on and who would you be going to first for some questioning? And if that White dude, upon being asked "hey we need to talk to you, can you answer some questions for us", swore at you and then started making a line for the door, that would increase suspicions even more, correct?
Would "being white and bald isn't reasonable suspicion of being in a neo-nazi group" be an unfair over-simplification of the circumstances?
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Yes, and then if an anomaly is found, they turn it over to the enforcement arm of the agency
I-9 audits don't necessarily give you the name of the individuals, there have been thousands of instances of identity theft where a person fills out the paper work with someone else's name and information, and the audit catches it because they see oddities like "why is this guy registered for retail employment in both Missouri and New Mexico at the same time?...something's fishy here"
A corporate retailer doesn't necessarily have to be a "knowing" violator. Walmart got burned by it back in 2003. Where it turned out that 61 locations in 20 different states had undocumented workers.
Chipotle had issues even more recently. ICE audits revealed hundreds of employees lacked proper work authorization. The company was required to fire workers and paid a $1.4 million fine in 2020.
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Yes, there are times where a person may look like the type of person they're looking for... it happens
Like my previous example, if there was a tip that a store was people believed to be involved with a neo-nazi group and I was tasked with canvasing the area to look into it, I'm certainly not focusing the old Asian lady or the Black guy... the White guy with the shaved head would be who I focused on.
Not sure why people seem to think colorblindness (to the point where it starts to defy common sense) is a virtue.
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ICE
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s (ICE) mission is to protect America from the cross-border crime and illegal immigration that threaten national security and public safety. This mission is executed through the enforcement of more than 400 federal statutes and focuses on smart...
...sorry, I guess I assumed people would know that was the government website for ICE.
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And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon
ICE agents are sworn LEOs who go through a 4-month training program just like local cops.
As far as what I think people are protesting about?
Conservatives want tighter immigration controls, therefore, progressives feel compelled to want the opposite (and be very vocal about it to demonstrate their progressive bona fides), and make the opposition to it a virtue.
The pattern has repeated itself across a variety of topics over the past 10 years.
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Hans Blaster
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Wouldn't that literally include the name of the person with jobs in non-adjacent states? Of persons with fake identity papers used on the I-9? (Or in a case you didn't mention, someone using a SSN issued to someone with a work visa that expired 3 years ago?)
And I'd bet they didn't figure that out by sending raiding parties to 100 different Walmarts. (It's something like our list above, probably.)
I was going to blame franchisees, but they don't have franchising. However, those things are all over the place just like walmarts (or subway or starbucks or plagues) so hundreds of undocumented employees is probably less than 61 different Walmart stores.
No wonder they don't try super hard to "stay clean".
You've got a few corporate examples with a modest number of undocumented employees. None is a good motivation for raids of random Target stores.
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- Oct 2, 2020
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Probably resisting and obstruction would be the reasons given.
Probably if the two had just cooperated right away, nothing would have happened.
In a traffic stop or checkpoint stop for example; If someone refuses to cooperate they'll get taken down and cuffed. I've seen that happen in numerous police bodycam videos. Often after the person has been arrested for resisting and obstruction they'll attempt to cooperate, but are told it's too late for that.
So basically it's either answer questions and present ID right when the police ask, or get taken downtown to do so.
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It would include the name of the victim of identity theft, but wouldn't include the real name of the person who assumed their identity for employment.
Often times, they're not using the identity of other work permit people, they're using the identify of full blown citizens.
There are some serious gaps and weaknesses in the e-verify system (for the states that use it)
Actually...
Again, I don't think it was random...
It's not like it's a case where they're saying "I need to get some new towels and a scented candle, and while we're here, let's look for some undocumented workers"
I'd even go as far as arguing that states and cities that designate themselves with sanctuary status (and pass laws and ordinances that suggest that employers aren't even allowed to inquire about immigration status on applications) are painting a bigger target on those stores' backs in those locations.
If I was being tasked with apprehending people illegally purchasing weapons under federal law, and there's a city/state that says "we think background checks are unconstitutional for gun transactions and are federal overreach, so we're not going to enforce that rule", guess where I'm starting my search.
We all know the states that have weaker gun laws, yes? And nobody is coy about bringing up the fact that more guns are ending up in the hands of people who shouldn't have them in those states. And if one were wanting to crack down on that, it would make more sense to start the search in those locations.
Why would we apply a different set of logic to this scenario?
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I'll say it again (and realize that's it's "un-PC" in the eyes of some people), certain crimes and more likely among certain communities.
If a federal agency was tasked with canvasing an area to look for KKK members and neo-nazis, they'd be looking more for white guys than black and asian guys, correct?
Is that anti-white racism? Or is that just common sense?
In this case (again, sorry if sounds un-PC), the statistics are overwhelmingly indicative that if you're tasked with apprehending people who are in the country illegally, there is a data point to consider.
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This is my personal rule of thumb if I'm detained and ordered to present ID: Comply first, and then dispute later if I think the order was unlawful.
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Hans Blaster
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2003? Wow. I didn't realize you had to reach back that far
It's more like "since we're in MSP let's go to Target and roust some brown people.".
Sure they do.
Not interested in the scenarios you concoct.
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I would concur...
Where the far-left progressive wing undermines their own argument (in my opinion) is in one breath, they'll champion the separation of powers, condemn vigilantism, and rail against people who rely on their own constitutional interpretations saying "we've got a judicial branch for that", and then appeal to credentialism.
Yet, when it comes to a cause that's "near and dear" to them, they'll toss that out the window and challenge the executive branch themselves on the basis of "because I feel this is unconstitutional, I have the right to ignore this rule and see myself as an instrument against it" (despite the fact that they don't have any constitutional law credentials)
It's an attempt to equate their own position with some "higher purpose" and explain why it's "special". When in reality, they're no different than the people who gave cops grief with regards to enforcing mask rules during covid.
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Sure they do.
Why not?
Is it not comparable?
State/City declares 'we're not going to enforce rule XYZ', doesn't it make sense that the people looking to break rule XYZ will more prevalent in those areas?
If someone was looking to buy a gun without a background check or rigorous screening, would they not seek out an area that let's you buy one no questions asked? Isn't that the common talking point? The unchecked guns in Chicago are coming from Gary, Indiana?
Why would the logic be any different here?
If I were an undocumented immigrant, I'd certainly be looking to settle in a city/state that said "we don't ask those kinds of questions"
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They just want to do their racism routine. That's all that matters to them. WHITE MEN attacking BROWN PEOPLE - end of story.
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Hans Blaster
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Because I am not interested in your distractions.
Didn't read it that carefully because ...
I don't care about it.
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Stop apologizing for this administration, rob. These guys were citizens. U.S. citizens. They did not commit any crime. What was done to them is disgusting and apologizing for the government and this administration is disgusting.
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So what should happen in the future when people refuse to show that they're U.S. citizens?
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