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Please What is the word "Passion" actually referring to ?

peter2

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To be more precise : Why is a same word used for something that commonly points to deep emotion at men's and on the other hand, that looks stemming from the deeply determined will (without emotion ?) at God's ?
1. Could the word "Passion" point to a divine reciprocating of the word : "worship", since a worship is a human practice, and as for God the Son, it is relevant to use another word ?
2. Could it point as well to Passover in second meaning, a kind of passage from slavery (Egypt, sin, the inside of maternal womb, etc..) to utter freedom (Desert, weaning of sin, weaning of maternal, cutting of the umbilical cord, etc..)
3. something else
 

PloverWing

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In English, "passion" means two rather different things: 1) suffering; 2) strong emotion. As I understand it, the "suffering" meaning goes back to the underlying Greek πάσχω and Latin passio. I'm not sure whether the "strong emotion" meaning also goes back to the Greek πάσχω or whether it's a later development in English; perhaps someone with more Greek knowledge can weigh in. One discussion of the development of the English word is here: Passion - Etymology, Origin & Meaning

In theology, "Christ's passion" refers to Christ's suffering.

As far as I know, the word "passion" is unrelated to the English word "paschal" and the French word "Pâques"; the latter two come from the Hebrew word for Passover.
 
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peter2

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In English, "passion" means two rather different things: 1) suffering; 2) strong emotion. As I understand it, the "suffering" meaning goes back to the underlying Greek πάσχω and Latin passio.
Hi PloverWing, thank you. It's precious information you give me.
In theology, "Christ's passion" refers to Christ's suffering.
Indeed in french, the suffering meaning relates only to Christ's. Don't you think it could exist some relationship between the1) and 2) meanings that might converge ? As for greek or latin i have no knowledge of any, and thus fail to interpret what you write about

I 'm going to have a look at your link after. Thank you again
As far as I know, the word "passion" is unrelated to the English word "paschal" and the French word "Pâques"; the latter two come from the Hebrew word for Passover.
It's just another of my hypotheses. Catholic Nicene creed in Latin tells : "passus et sepultus est". "Passus" must be the adjective of the noun "passio" you just learnt me. You see, from a catholic view, it would make a bit more likely the hypothesis "passus", that's tranlated as "suffering", might be related to passion, since it's used just when the Passion takes place, that is, 3 days before Easter
 
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JSRG

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To be more precise : Why is a same word used for something that commonly points to deep emotion at men's and on the other hand, that looks stemming from the deeply determined will (without emotion ?) at God's ?
1. Could the word "Passion" point to a divine reciprocating of the word : "worship", since a worship is a human practice, and as for God the Son, it is relevant to use another word ?
2. Could it point as well to Passover in second meaning, a kind of passage from slavery (Egypt, sin, the inside of maternal womb, etc..) to utter freedom (Desert, weaning of sin, weaning of maternal, cutting of the umbilical cord, etc..)
3. something else
The word "passion" in English goes back to the Latin word passio. This word originally meant suffering, which was the meaning that came into English. However, later on--way later on--it gained the additional meaning of "strong emotion". This new meaning eventually overtook the original meaning in both English and various other languages to the point that the original meaning of suffering is only in reference to that specifically of Jesus (and in English is usually denoted by capitalizing the word).

This sort of word meaning shifting happens plenty of times. Nowadays, awful means something that's really bad. Originally it meant awe-inspiring, but over time it shifted. Similarly, egregious (very bad) originally meant very good--and in some languages like Spanish, this original meaning is retained. Or for a religious instance, "ghost" originally meant "spirit", hence why older translations of the Bible like the KJV said "Holy Ghost" and frequently used the phrase "gave up the ghost" (meaning to die--one gives up one's spirit/soul). Over time, however, the term "ghost" narrowed into its more modern time as referring specifically to dead spirits, hence why "Holy Ghost" for the most part shifted to "Holy Spirit" to better fit the modern definitions. Maybe the same thing should have been done with "passion", but maybe the term in reference to Jesus was too engrained to shift.

So trying to analyze how the meaning of "deep emotion" relates to the Passion of Jesus is to try to take a meaning that appears to have only developed over a thousand years after the Passion.

As for Passover, that didn't come from the word passion. In fact, the word Passover didn't even exist until the 16th century. It first shows up in Tyndale's bible translation as a way to translate Pesakh and Pascha, the Hebrew and Greek words for Passover (the former found in the Old Testament, the latter in the New Testament). The origin of the word Passover, however, was simply a combination of the separate words "pass" and "over" (or, as they were originally spelled, "passe" and "ouer", so the original spelling of Passover was actually passeouer). No relation to the word passion. In case people were wondering how Pesakh/Pascha was translated into English before this term got created, it usually was translated either as a transliteration (like pasch, pask, phase) or as Easter. "Passover" gained popularity because it was what the King James Version used, as that translation left a major mark on the English language.

To also reply to part of the second message:

It's just another of my hypotheses. Catholic Nicene creed in Latin tells : "passus et sepultus est". "Passus" must be the adjective of the noun "passio" you just learnt me. You see, from a catholic view, it would make a bit more likely the hypothesis "passus", that's tranlated as "suffering", might be related to passion, since it's used just when the Passion takes place, that is, 3 days before Easter
Passus is not an adjective of passio, though it is related. The Latin noun passio (suffering) comes from the Latin verb patior (to suffer). Passus is the perfect passive participle form of patior, and when combined with "est", into "passus est", it turns into the third person singular masculine perfect conjugation of patior... which is a convoluted way of saying it means "he suffered". The Nicene Creed adds "et sepultus" between the passus and est, which adds in "and was buried". So "passus et sepultus est" translates out to "he suffered and was buried."

Of course, just to make things even more convoluted, passus has two other, unrelated meanings, both unrelated to patior. Passus can be the perfect passive participle of a completely separate verb, pando, which means to spread out. Passus can also be a noun that means "step". These two meanings have nothing to do with the "suffered" meaning (all three have different etymologies from one another), but just ended up with the same spelling by coincidence. Sort of like how in English, wind can be a noun referring to a breeze, but can also be a verb referring to move in a circular or spiraling motion. Despite the identical spellings of wind--though different pronunciations, oddly--these words have totally different meanings and etymologies.
 
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peter2

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The word "passion" in English goes back to the Latin word passio. This word originally meant suffering, which was the meaning that came into English. However, later on--way later on--it gained the additional meaning of "strong emotion". This new meaning eventually overtook the original meaning in both English and various other languages to the point that the original meaning of suffering is only in reference to that specifically of Jesus (and in English is usually denoted by capitalizing the word).

This sort of word meaning shifting happens plenty of times. Nowadays, awful means something that's really bad. Originally it meant awe-inspiring, but over time it shifted. Similarly, egregious (very bad) originally meant very good--and in some languages like Spanish, this original meaning is retained. Or for a religious instance, "ghost" originally meant "spirit", hence why older translations of the Bible like the KJV said "Holy Ghost" and frequently used the phrase "gave up the ghost" (meaning to die--one gives up one's spirit/soul). Over time, however, the term "ghost" narrowed into its more modern time as referring specifically to dead spirits, hence why "Holy Ghost" for the most part shifted to "Holy Spirit" to better fit the modern definitions. Maybe the same thing should have been done with "passion", but maybe the term in reference to Jesus was too engrained to shift.
Thank you, JSRG, for so much informative information.
I already made myself the following assumption (see quote below), copied/pasted from a message i sent to John Clay, on CF, through which words meanings have evolved from a starting point in Genesis, that would be the word "nudity/naked".
This word would actually bear pure subjective significance. It would be some sort of ancestor for all words whose sense has changed over through human history.
So we seemingly have made the same constat.
I wonder whether there's not a possible response from Genesis, which i propose to you, however partial

I mean :
Let's consider the tree of knowledge of good and evil did bring a knowledge, but not an important one to Adam and Eve (that is, their nudity would be shameful)

Now, if the knowledge of their nudity induced them into feeling shameful, we may wonder whether this shame was adding or substracting to their self-awareness.

Another questions they might wonder is whether :

Their nudity was or not the deepest origin of the shame ? Couldn't it rather stem directly from the knowledge of this nudity, that would have induced them into feeling some guilt. Indeed, it seems to me the same nudity they're first not ashamed with becomes source of their shame then.

And, also, that the word "naked" bore no significance before the first sin. Neither does God use it before. Nor does the Verb in Jn 1.

So, does the word "naked" bear any significance but subjective ?

Finally,
i wonder whether this word, "naked", made Adam and Eve wealthier or poorer, as regard their knowledge
And whether the New Adam didn't start his incarnation unaware of its subjective and subsequently impoverishing significance, thus making him straightly far more knowing than the first man
So trying to analyze how the meaning of "deep emotion" relates to the Passion of Jesus is to try to take a meaning that appears to have only developed over a thousand years after the Passion.
Agreed, but
From what i preceedingly wrote i'd thus say, "trying to analyze how the meaning of "deep emotion" relates to the Passion of Jesus" is also a means for me to try and thwart a little what could be some worldly traps of the language. Welcome into paranoland !;)
Passus is not an adjective of passio, though it is related. The Latin noun passio (suffering) comes from the Latin verb patior (to suffer). Passus is the perfect passive participle form of patior, and when combined with "est", into "passus est", it turns into the third person singular masculine perfect conjugation of patior... which is a convoluted way of saying it means "he suffered". The Nicene Creed adds "et sepultus" between the passus and est, which adds in "and was buried". So "passus et sepultus est" translates out to "he suffered and was buried."

Of course, just to make things even more convoluted, passus has two other, unrelated meanings, both unrelated to patior. Passus can be the perfect passive participle of a completely separate verb, pando, which means to spread out. Passus can also be a noun that means "step". These two meanings have nothing to do with the "suffered" meaning (all three have different etymologies from one another), but just ended up with the same spelling by coincidence. Sort of like how in English, wind can be a noun referring to a breeze, but can also be a verb referring to move in a circular or spiraling motion. Despite the identical spellings of wind--though different pronunciations, oddly--these words have totally different meanings and etymologies.
This is the reason why i thank you to give all those details. Because as for me, however distinct might look all these meanings' origin, i fail to conclude with certitude they are
 
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