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Hundreds protest in Minneapolis after ICE officer kills Renee Nicole Macklin Good

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Larniavc

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Calling it a "hit" is hyperbole
This I agree with. It’s just the statistical inevitability of a LEO killing someone they encounter.

With the trigger happy people they recruit it’s going to happen. The only unknown is who in particular has to die.

I guess if you live in America it could be you at any time.
 
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High Fidelity

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Crikey. That’s very different from what I experience here in the UK. Police officers are uniformly polite and non-threatening whenever I’ve been pulled over.

We don't live in a country with more guns than people, though. Nor are police routinely armed.
 
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wing2000

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Her group was. What was she doing in her car sideways in the middle of the street?

The point being, the available video, on which all of us are making our assessments, doe not show her throwing anything. Let's assume she was intentionally blocking the progress of ICE vehicles. ICE now has a decision to make. Attempt to move her or have local law enforcement deal with her.

No, but according to a witness she was the lead vehicle intentionally obstructing the vehicles of federal agents, which is a crime, and to my understanding is also one of the few instances where ICE can intervene and/or detain US citizens if they're impeding or obstructing them during their duties/investigations.

...and we see the results. Such authority should be suspended and re-assessed.
 
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wing2000

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If she attacked the agents by using her car then she invited the self defense action. If she did not use her car as a weapon then the agent should be prosecuted.

...we may never know. I certainly have no confidence the Patel's FBI will issue an objective finding.
 
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Larniavc

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Their job isn't to let them go. Unfortunately she made the wrong choice of running with an agent in front of the car.
At that means shoot to kill?
 
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rjs330

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But you are unlikely to be gunned down on the spot by a fireman or an EMT for it. It doesn't matter. You don't need to fuss over whether it was legal or not The admistration has declared it a legal hit and their Christian supporters have declared it righteous killing, It's over.
This is nothing but inflammatory rhetoric. The admin did not call it a hit. They did claim it was a legal use of force. Maybe they jumped the gun before the investigation was completed. I will give you that. And not one Christian supporter has called it a righteous killing. Don't be so inflammatory.
 
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Larniavc

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We don't live in a country with more guns than people, though. Nor are police routinely armed.
Can’t think how that might possibly be relevant to this woman being killed.
 
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rjs330

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What’s the charge when it’s ICE blocking a medic from administering potentially life saving treatment?
Did that happen? I didn't know that. Now that would be completely wrong if that did indeed occur. I'm sure that would be some sort of criminal offense.
 
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keith99

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But there's no escaping the authority imbalance that exists between civilians and certain authority figures.

For example, if I'm mad at my neighbor, so intentionally block him from getting to his accounting job, it's a misdemeanor.

If I do the same to a fire truck or ambulance when they're on the way to doing their job, it's a felony.
So, will they be going after the ICE officers who prevented medics from getting to her?
 
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rjs330

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The escalation is having squads of armed agents sweep through people’s neighborhoods. That’s bound to bring out opposition and inevitably lead to tragedy like this.
No the escalation is mobs of people sweeping through communities in an attempt to prevent agents from carrying out the laws of the land.
 
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rjs330

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Clearly people are not happy about the methods that the administration has chosen to use for enforcement. That's not absurd. It's factual. If you were genuinely interested in resolving the problem, you would look for ways to enforce the law that do not involve federal agents shooting people in the street or conducting military-style raids on people's houses, not make up strawmen about how the alternative is completely stopping enforcement.
People can be unhappy about the methods. Thats just fine. Being unhappy with them is not justification for impeding, obstructing, preventing or attacking those carrying out the laws. The correct way to deal with it is to let your voice be heard and ask your elected officials to change the laws. The actions of those doing theae things creates an atmosphere of chaos and lawlessness which can lead to this sort of thing.

Leave the agents alone, let them do their jobs and go protest against those who are in charge of this. Which aren't the agents.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Did that happen? I didn't know that. Now that would be completely wrong if that did indeed occur. I'm sure that would be some sort of criminal offense.
There is, in fact, video of a person asking if he can check on her. He says he is a doctor. ICE says "No."
 
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rjs330

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I've already given my alternative.
End all quotas for ICE and CBP, take them out of sanctuary cities, have strict enforcement everywhere else so illegal immigrants have to go to sanctuary cities. They want them there, let them have all of them
I don't have an issue with that. I would go further though and end all Federal monies going to those cities. If they want illegals, people who are breaking the laws of the land there, then they can pay for it themselves.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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People can be unhappy about the methods. Thats just fine. Being unhappy with them is not justification for impeding, obstructing, preventing or attacking those carrying out the laws.
Sure. And people doing that is not justification for ICE killing them. If people break the law, they can be arrested and charged.
 
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High Fidelity

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And kill her if she did not comply?
In the process of non-compliance she accelerated her vehicle towards a federal agent. At that point it's a weapon.

Point a gun at a cop and refuse to lower it will likely result in the same.
 
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High Fidelity

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Can’t think how that might possibly be relevant to this woman being killed.

Because our police officers don't stop people and have to assume they may be armed.

They also aren't armed themselves, so the risk of escalation is much lower, as is the possibility of being shot.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Their job isn't to let them go.
It certainly can be - if not letting the person go puts more people in danger than letting them go, then letting them go is the right course of action. They definitely had her license plate number. I'm sure they had photos of her. If she had committed a chargeable offense, they had everything they needed to get a warrant and arrest her later.
Unfortunately she made the wrong choice of running with an agent in front of the car.
Unfortunately, the agent made the wrong choice of putting himself in front of a vehicle trying to leave the area, and someone else paid the price for it.
 
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BCP1928

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You back to blaming Christians again? Not cool.
Not all Christians, but the Justice Department has a task force trying to correct that. I'm already not a Christian by Presidential proclamation. I belong to the same denomination as the Bishop of DC--I'm a "Blasphemous Pervert" and proud of it. :D

We'll see how the rest goes. The Catholic Church is proving a tough nut for Bondi to crack.
 
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rambot

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The difference is the Federal government is enforcing laws that were created during a democratic process by the elected representatives of the people. And now people are trying to prevent the enforcement of those laws.
And perhaps that's also because the government changed standards and in some cases, the laws themselves to expand the number and type of people they can remove.

Initially the Bill of Sale for all of this read "We are getting rid of criminals and rapists" and people were "open" to that possibility.

What is currently happenning is nowhere NEAR the bill of sale. Some people who were legally here 1 year ago, had the requirements change and then they suddenly became illegal. Some people have been law abiding, hard working community members (if not legal residents) and they are getting removed.
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Republicans could be in a position to show reason and compassion. But they are choosing to NOT do that. You can fall back on the "crutch" of the law, but repulations, and policies have also been changed; even retroactively at times. OR just simply revoking visas.

I mean, how many times have we heard the concept that "just because something is illegal doesn't make it immoral" or "Just because something isn't illegal, doesn't make it right". Essentially, we should not be relying SOLELY on the "law" to determine what is "right and wrong".

And yet it just seems like all these "get the minorities out" folks have completely forgot that ethos and now rely on nothing BUT the law to determine whether something is right or wrong.

This one is just a side bar but boy is it interesting:
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