Joy, tears and chants of "freedom" as Venezuelans - Bravo President Trump and his decisive actions

ThatRobGuy · Jan 5, 2026

Bradskii said:
Why quote my post. It has zero relevance. It's not applicable whatsoever.

Because your hypothetical implied that Venezuela was just a model international citizen who perhaps just sees things a slightly different way, and we just waltzed in there for no good reason decided to take their leader and exert authority.

Taking money from our enemies in exchange for letting them set up de facto military operations down there is in our interest to prevent and rectify.

So to your "We'll I'm going to take over your household decisions, how would you like it?!?"...if there was person who was was interested in burning your house down (but lived a few towns over so you'd normally have a buffer zone), but you found out I accepted money from them to let them store a bunch of Molotov cocktails in my garage across the street that's within throwing distance, you'd have every interest in intervening.

Hans Blaster · Jan 5, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
Russia setting up shop in the host country of a Latin American socialist dictatorship was enough to get JFK to take notice and attempt to take action. Had JFK had the more modern military "toys" we have today, the Bay of Pigs Invasion may have succeeded.

we should note that "Bay of Pigs" veterans were also the ones that botched the break-ins to the DNC HQ at the Watergate. I don't think we can lay this on lack of "toys".

Hentenza · Jan 5, 2026

Bradskii said:
He doesn't even know who is going to step in for Maduro. The guy is absolutely clueless. He makes things up as he goes.

We’ll see.

ThatRobGuy · Jan 5, 2026

Hans Blaster said:
we should note that "Bay of Pigs" veterans were also the ones that botched the break-ins to the DNC HQ at the Watergate. I don't think we can lay this on lack of "toys".

Intelligence leaks were a huge part of it...

So when people were in a huff about certain members of congress not being briefed first before it happened...

Bay of Pigs taught us that the Russians have eyes and ears all over the place, and there something about the press getting their hands on operation plans a week in advance that has a certain way of foiling the initiative.

And with regards to matters impacting Venezuela, the Chinese have eyes and ears everywhere too.
(and tech has only gotten better since then)

Vambram · Jan 5, 2026

U.S. reward for Venezuela's Maduro increased to $25 million in effort to capture him

The increase to $25 million reflects "the gravity of his crimes and the continued threat he poses," a senior official said.

www.cbsnews.com

Aryeh Jay · Jan 5, 2026

Always in His Presence said:
How often and how many times does he have to mention it for you to be comfortable? The seal team action (not an invasion) was the day before yesterday - -

Yeah, I know, was there. I'm on the USS Iwo Jima, one of the ships that launched the operation and the first stop for President Maduro.

Bradskii · Jan 5, 2026

Hentenza said:
We’ll see.

What's with the future tense? We are seeing it right now. In real time. I'm watching the news and keeping up to date with what's happening on an hourly basis. I just read an article that's 38 minutes old that says oil companies will be reluctant to do anything about the infrastructure in the county because they have no idea what's going on (Trump says that you'll be paying for it all as well).

From here: Trump suggests US taxpayers could cover cost of boosting Venezuelan oil production – live

'Trump acknowledged that “a lot of money” will need to be spent to increase oil production in Venezuela, but suggested the US government could pay American oil companies to do the work.

“A tremendous amount of money will have to be spent and the oil companies will spend it, and then they’ll get reimbursed by us or through revenue”, the president said.'

Did you note that? A lot of money? Spend a lot of money in a country when they don't even know who's leading it? And the oil companies will get reimbursed by us? Well, when he says 'us' he really means 'you' when he says that. But hang on...OR through revenue. Tell me that you don't realise that he's making this up as he goes.

As the WSJ said in the same article:

'“They need sort of a long, stable environment to invest in.'

[STAFF EDIT]

Aryeh Jay · Jan 5, 2026

durangodawood said:
Fentanyl is NOT mentioned in the indictment against Maduro.

Thats should seem odd to you. More than odd.

Not odd at all, par for the course. Trump could say the reason was to set up a clown school and his supporters would eat it up. Yum yum!

Hans Blaster · Jan 5, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
Intelligence leaks were a huge part of it...

So when people were in a huff about certain members of congress not being briefed first before it happened...

Indiscreet talk by members of the invaders. Not leaks from Congress.

ThatRobGuy said:
Bay of Pigs taught us that the Russians have eyes and ears all over the place, and there something about the press getting their hands on operation plans a week in advance that has a certain way of foiling the initiative.

And with regards to matters impacting Venezuela, the Chinese have eyes and ears everywhere too.
(and tech has only gotten better since then)

Your argument is that the top members from each party and party leaders are not trustworthy enough to receive a briefing or are compromised or hacked by Chinese intel.

Hans Blaster · Jan 5, 2026

Bradskii said:
How it it humanly possible to miss the point of the analogy?

It helps when you are accustomed to weaving your own narratives and concocted scenarios of every topic to avoid accidentally agreeing with the left while the right wingers are watching.

rambot · Jan 5, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
I posted this in the other thread, but it's applicable here

China gave them nearly $60 billion in oil-backed loans.

Russia gave them nearly $20 billion in loans, $4 billion of which, they used to buy Russian arms, in exchange for Russia being allowed to build military training facilities there and do "temporary rotational deployments" (which is just a thinly veiled way to skirt the Venezuela constitutional provisions prohibiting foreign military bases on their soil)

Russia setting up shop in the host country of a Latin American socialist dictatorship was enough to get JFK to take notice and attempt to take action. Had JFK had the more modern military "toys" we have today, the Bay of Pigs Invasion may have succeeded.

Although it should be noted that one of the reasons it failed was because of them getting tipped off due to "leaked intelligence", which would answer the questions others were asking about why the administration kept this one close to the vest until after the job was done.

Silly of America to put sanctions on them forcing them to find other ways to trade with "more nefarious" players.

Bradskii · Jan 5, 2026

Hentenza said:
You have a lot more trust in the media than I do.

Well, I guess you won't trust this either: Client Challenge

'Oil output will fall by 1.1 per cent next year to 13.3mn barrels a day, according to S&P Global Commodity Insights, as prolific shale drillers that made the US the world’s biggest producer idle rigs in the face of prices driven lower by fears of oversupply and Trump’s trade war.'

Get that? Not only are the oil companies not making investments into future oil production, they've actually been reducing what they drill for in the US for some time. And see why? They don't know what in heaven's name is going to happen in the US with Trump in the wheelhouse. Let alone some South American country where no-one even knows who's going to be leading it next month.

But then again, why should they worry? Trump literally just said that you'd be paying them to invest there. You happy with that? I'd say your answer might depend. That you might suggest that...

Hentenza said:
...I think I’m going to wait a bit for the dust to settle.

A sensible precaution I'd say. Because you, nor anyone else has the slightest idea where this is heading. Including, unfortunately, the guy who poked the first domino.

Hentenza · Jan 5, 2026

Bradskii said:
Well, I guess you won't trust this either: Client Challenge

'Oil output will fall by 1.1 per cent next year to 13.3mn barrels a day, according to S&P Global Commodity Insights, as prolific shale drillers that made the US the world’s biggest producer idle rigs in the face of prices driven lower by fears of oversupply and Trump’s trade war.'

Get that? Not only are the oil companies not making investments into future oil production, they've actually been reducing what they drill for in the US for some time. And see why? They don't know what in heaven's name is going to happen in the US with Trump in the wheelhouse. Let alone some South American country where no-one even knows who's going to be leading it next month.

But then again, why should they worry? Trump literally just said that you'd be paying them to invest there. You happy with that? I'd say your answer might depend. That you might suggest that...

Oil companies have been reducing production and slowing investments because of the oil glut which has created price swings. Hopefully this will shift as the market balances.

“The oil market oversupply is here, evident in the price swings in both directions in recent weeks. Geopolitical developments have moved oil up or down, but the hikes and dips have been short-lived and smaller than they would have been if the market were tight or balanced.

The market is headed to as much as 3.84 million barrels per day (bpd) of supply exceeding demand in 2026, the IEA said in its latest monthly report for December.

The oil glut will be short-lived, many analysts say, and they expect the market to start balancing later in 2026 and into 2027.”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/big-oil-prepares-leaner-prices-220000463.html

When you cloud your perspective because of your hatred for one person everything looks like is that person’s fault. We only have three more years left.

Bradskii said:
A sensible precaution I'd say. Because you, nor anyone else has the slightest idea where this is heading. Including, unfortunately, the guy who poked the first domino.

We’ll see.

ThatRobGuy · Jan 5, 2026

rambot said:
Silly of America to put sanctions on them forcing them to find other ways to trade with "more nefarious" players.

Why?

Aren't sanctions supposed to be the primary "non-violent tool" to curb bad behavior?

Sanctions during the Venezuelan crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Multiple administrations from both parties have imposed multiple sanctions on them for reasons of ranging from supporting terrorism, to aiding in drug smuggling, to flat out human rights violations. Our neighbors to the north imposed sanctions on them as well.

What's left to do after 20 years of sanctions attempts fail to correct bad behaviors?

The idea that "golly gee shucks, I guess we just have to let them do whatever they want because if we don't placate them, they'll align with even worse people" is self defeating. That's like saying "I'll just leave my car unlocked so thieves can take whatever they want, because that way they won't have to break the window to get the stuff and cause more damage"

And I noted in another thread, that was one of Trump's blind spots when initially making overly optimistic promises regarding being "against military conflict", thinking that everyone is equally swayed by the prospect of good business deals and making money. When dealing with regimes that are heavily rooted in ideology (that would apply to both revolutionary socialist/communist regimes as well as theocratic ones), they prioritize something else over economics, so it's harder to use the normal incentive structures.

If a world leader has the goal of "smashing western capitalism" or "mobilizing the spread of my ideology", a good financial deal isn't going to appeal to them in the same way it does with other likeminded countries.

Bradskii · Jan 5, 2026

Hentenza said:
We’ll see.

I'll just point out again that this is what you have to say. Despite this being a major event, and not just as it relates to Venezuela, but to many other countries as well, no-one has any idea what's now going happen. That that is the case is not credible. You don't mess around with global politics by saying 'Hey, let's do this and see what happens'.

ThatRobGuy · Jan 5, 2026

Hans Blaster said:
Indiscreet talk by members of the invaders. Not leaks from Congress.

Your argument is that the top members from each party and party leaders are not trustworthy enough to receive a briefing or are compromised or hacked by Chinese intel.

My trust is limited...

Just in recent years we've had a member of the Homeland Security committee who was getting entangled with a Chinese spy, a Senate Majority leader who was so aged that he was freezing up and having mini-strokes during press conferences and didn't know where he was, Schumer I don't trust at all... Mark Warner and Tom Cotton seem okay. Jeffries is still a bit of a wild card.

But I guess a question I've pondered is... what is the utility of that formality of notifying the "gang of eight"? That's an honest question.

They can ask questions during the briefing itself, though the executive branch controls what information is provided and can decline to answer. They can express objections or concerns verbally to the President or intelligence officials, but these are essentially opinions with no binding force.
They can't tell anyone what they heard in the briefing, which means their ability to pushback on an idea/plan is limited to basically nil.

So within our current framework, it seems like the "gang of eight" notification requirement don't provide any real "check" on the executive branch. It creates only risk, with no upside.

"I'm going to do this thing, I'm telling you about it, but you don't have any power to push back, tell anyone else, or do anything about it"

Hentenza · Jan 5, 2026

Bradskii said:
I'll just point out again that this is what you have to say. Despite this being a major event, and not just as it relates to Venezuela, but to many other countries as well, no-one has any idea what's now going happen. That that is the case is not credible. You don't mess around with global politics by saying 'Hey, let's do this and see what happens'. That's the attitude of a fool.

Your opinion is noted. I, on the other hand, am going to wait a bit and see what actually happens. I don’t like speculation.

rjs330 · Jan 5, 2026

Say it aint so said:
The next in line just the other day was threatened to collaborate or suffer the same consequence as Maduro.

Yup, as it should be.

RocksInMyHead · Jan 5, 2026

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss:

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-orders-police-find-arrest-anyone-involved-supporting-us-attack-decree-2026-01-05/

Fantine · Jan 5, 2026

Always in His Presence said:
hogwash - Biden talked tough about Venezuela - called for military action for more than 40 years and did NOTHING - Trump is the one that brought it to an end - no war -

You know who is rejoicing - our allies and people who had to live under the dictator - you know who is complaining about it - our enemies

Hmmm......

We went from No Kings to Leave the murderous dictator alone in weeks.

Ugh! By allies you mean Russia and China, who'll feel emboldened to attack Eastern Europe and Taiwan? China already is claiming the South China Sea.
Not only will they feel emboldened, but they'll know we are spread thin due to Trump's unauthorized power grab.

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Joy, tears and chants of "freedom" as Venezuelans - Bravo President Trump and his decisive actions

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Under the Southern Cross I stand...

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