Is Europe facing civilizational erasure?

mindlight · Monday at 2:48 AM

Nithavela said:
Your constant refrain of saying that western civilisation wouldn't collapse if everyone just prayed at the altar of your religion reminds me of confucianism and it's attempt to prop up a failing societal order by demanding everyone follows the same rituals surrounding that order.

For my people have committed two evils: they have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and hewed out for themselves cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no water Jeremiah 2:13

People wonder why the wells on their world views have run dry. Simple answer is that are no longer connected to the mains.

mindlight · Monday at 2:52 AM

Larniavc said:
Like Japan?

Japan is a notable outlier but in effect they have completely imitated the way that Western economies work so on a material level the difference is not so apparent. The demographic, debt and spiritual crisis is just as real in Japan as in Europe - worse in some ways.

mindlight · Monday at 2:55 AM

Robban said:
Your point #3 is missing something in regards to power.

One thing to keep in mind is, The spirit of Russia is resilient, Russia will prevail, it has been proven.

The fairies in the leadership of EU and UK will be reminded of, unless they admit their foolishness in time.

I think this changes with leadership. Putin is a very strong and capable leader with a clear expansionist agenda. The same could not have been said about Yeltsin. Putin made a mistake swiveling Russia to Asia and away from Europe as the profits were in Europe and the real threat to Russia is in Asia.

Robban · Monday at 4:05 AM

mindlight said:
I think this changes with leadership. Putin is a very strong and capable leader with a clear expansionist agenda. The same could not have been said about Yeltsin. Putin made a mistake swiveling Russia to Asia and away from Europe as the profits were in Europe and the real threat to Russia is in Asia.

President Vladimir Putin has himself admitted he was naive to believe the Minx agreements would do the trick.

As Merkel and the French guy, Holl...... or something have themselves admitted, it was only to stall and play for time.

They turn around as a deceptive bow.

Have you heard of "Operation unthninkable" 1945. A shockng plan, it does not seem to have gone away.

Larniavc · Monday at 4:42 AM

mindlight said:
so on a material level the difference is not so apparent

But it is apparent that Christianity was unnecessary for them.

mindlight · Monday at 9:13 AM

Robban said:
President Vladimir Putin has himself admitted he was naive to believe the Minx agreements would do the trick.

As Merkel and the French guy, Holl...... or something have themselves admitted, it was only to stall and play for time.

They turn around as a deceptive bow.

Have you heard of "Operation unthninkable" 1945. A shockng plan, it does not seem to have gone away.

Putin violated the Minsk agreements, because he wanted a different government in Ukraine than the one their people elected.
Merkel and Francois Hollande have been out of power for a while now but they could have done more to prepare Europe for the current crisis and the escalation of Russia's invasion before 2022. That strategic failure and the overdependence on Russian fossil fuels are major question marks against the ruling elites of both France and Germany. They completely blew it basically.

Operation Unthinkable was never feasible because Soviet conventional land force superiority in 1945 would have have made it too costly. It was devised before the first nukes were detonated. There was no political capital to support it after a long and exhausting war. Theoretically air and nuclear supremacy and US industrial might could have resulted in an allied victory , a much smaller Russia, and eastern Europe untainted by the communist experience and no cold war. But it was in practice a pipe dream.

mindlight · Monday at 9:20 AM

Larniavc said:
But it is apparent that Christianity was unnecessary for them.

The devil parades as an angel of light. Japan did a very good job of imitating a Christian/Post Christian country while dominated by Christian America. Of course debt, deflation, demography and darkness have taken their toll since the early 90s when the miracle came to a grinding halt with the asset bubble bust and the rise of China. Are they really that good an example today when it appears they stand so close to the precipice edge?

Nithavela · Monday at 9:26 AM

mindlight said:
The devil parades as an angel of light. Japan did a very good job of imitating a Christian/Post Christian country while dominated by Christian America. Of course debt, deflation, demography and darkness have taken their toll since the early 90s when the miracle came to a grinding halt with the asset bubble bust and the rise of China. Are they really that good an example today when it appears they stand so close to the precipice edge?

Ah yes, China, that famously christian country. Surely their rise is because of being extra faithful christians. There is no other explanation for the success or failure of a country than how christian they are.

Larniavc · Monday at 10:31 AM

mindlight said:
The devil parades as an angel of light. Japan did a very good job of imitating a Christian/Post Christian country while dominated by Christian America. Of course debt, deflation, demography and darkness have taken their toll since the early 90s when the miracle came to a grinding halt with the asset bubble bust and the rise of China. Are they really that good an example today when it appears they stand so close to the precipice edge?

I think you are seeing the hand of Christianity in things that are completely unrelated. Moreover I think we have our current way of life despite the hand of Christianity.

Robban · Monday at 1:49 PM

mindlight said:
Putin violated the Minsk agreements, because he wanted a different government in Ukraine than the one their people elected.
Merkel and Francois Hollande have been out of power for a while now but they could have done more to prepare Europe for the current crisis and the escalation of Russia's invasion before 2022. That strategic failure and the overdependence on Russian fossil fuels are major question marks against the ruling elites of both France and Germany. They completely blew it basically.

Operation Unthinkable was never feasible because Soviet conventional land force superiority in 1945 would have have made it too costly. It was devised before the first nukes were detonated. There was no political capital to support it after a long and exhausting war. Theoretically air and nuclear supremacy and US industrial might could have resulted in an allied victory , a much smaller Russia, and eastern Europe untainted by the communist experience and no cold war. But it was in practice a pipe dream.

I have read your post and understand that you have your meaning, that`s ok.

My meaning is to pursue fairness, honesty and if you like righteousness.

I have never voted for anyone, ever, why, because I do not like partiality.

Hans Blaster · Monday at 7:04 PM

mindlight said:
Putin violated the Minsk agreements, because he wanted a different government in Ukraine than the one their people elected.

That's no excuse, nor is it how international relations work. Countries pick their own leaders, not external powers.

mindlight said:
Merkel and Francois Hollande have been out of power for a while now but they could have done more to prepare Europe for the current crisis and the escalation of Russia's invasion before 2022. That strategic failure and the overdependence on Russian fossil fuels are major question marks against the ruling elites of both France and Germany. They completely blew it basically.

mindlight · Monday at 9:54 PM

Nithavela said:
Ah yes, China, that famously christian country. Surely their rise is because of being extra faithful christians. There is no other explanation for the success or failure of a country than how christian they are.

On a per capita basis China does not compare to any Western country. It is significant because of its size. That said things are changing there and China has more Christians than Germany has people. The rise of the church correlates with the rise of the country

mindlight · Monday at 10:03 PM

Hans Blaster said:
That's no excuse, nor is it how international relations work. Countries pick their own leaders, not external powers.

In Ukraine I agree the issue is in part sovereignty but so also unpacking unresolved history and cultural identity issues. Real politik rather a rules based international order is the new normal but Europeans and Democrats have not woken up to that yet. In Venezuela the people did not pick. Maduro at the last election

mindlight · Monday at 10:10 PM

Larniavc said:
I think you are seeing the hand of Christianity in things that are completely unrelated. Moreover I think we have our current way of life despite the hand of Christianity.

You also believe that your existence has nothing to do with the One who created and sustains you. That God is not Sovereign and Almighty. That justice, truth , peace and prosperity have nothing to do with the Divine!

Hans Blaster · Monday at 10:50 PM

mindlight said:
In Ukraine I agree the issue is in part sovereignty but so also unpacking unresolved history and cultural identity issues.

I'm not looking for Russian excuses.

mindlight said:
Real politik rather a rules based international order is the new normal but Europeans and Democrats have not woken up to that yet.

The tired old "you guys just don't understand how it works". SMH.

mindlight said:
In Venezuela the people did not pick. Maduro at the last election

Is that some sort of excuse now? Is this your realpolitik?

Larniavc · Tuesday at 2:42 AM

mindlight said:
You also believe that your existence has nothing to do with the One who created and sustains you. That God is not Sovereign and Almighty. That justice, truth , peace and prosperity have nothing to do with the Divine!

Well yes; that’s true. But you don’t believe in Enki who created you so I guess we are even.

BCP1928 · Tuesday at 9:58 AM

mindlight said:
You also believe that your existence has nothing to do with the One who created and sustains you. That God is not Sovereign and Almighty. That justice, truth , peace and prosperity have nothing to do with the Divine!

Material prosperity and geopolitical power have nothing to do with the Gospel of Christ. Those things aren't "rewards"for being Christian.

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Is Europe facing civilizational erasure?

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