At Pentagon Christmas Service, Franklin Graham Praises ‘God of War’ “We know that God loves. But did you know that God also hates?"

RileyG · Tuesday at 1:13 AM

BCP1928 said:
Christ's teachings? Nobody wants to follow Christ's teachings. Why do you think we strung him up? But that's OK, we've got Paul's teachings instead.

What? If a Christian believes the Bible is the inspired word of God, then what Paul taught is indeed part of Christian theology.

Jesus and Paul are NOT contradictory. At all.

RileyG · Tuesday at 1:14 AM

ViaCrucis said:
Paul is almost as radical as Jesus. Paul's vision for the Church is that of a multi-cultural Christ-shaped community that lives by the principles of love and mercy.

I don't really understand Paul hate. I know that there are those who quote-mine and cherry-pick from the Pauline corpus for self-serving ends. But as someone who has spent a lot of time studying and reading Paul's letters for most of his life, what I see is a radical preacher of mercy, advocating for radical love even when it costs one everything. There's no better advocate for the Jesus-shaped life than St. Paul of Tarsus.

Yes! St. Paul is awesome and a really good writer! I LOVE his epistles!

Hans Blaster · Tuesday at 1:22 AM

RileyG said:
Jesus and Paul are NOT contradictory. At all.

Well...

Anyway, neither of them belong at the Pentagon.

Robban · Tuesday at 2:13 AM

ViaCrucis said:
The point seems to be that Christian Nationalism doesn't really have much use for Christ. If one were to do a study involving asking those who self-identify with Christian Nationalism what they believe and think about Jesus, there would probably be a very diverse set of answers. Some might be theologically orthodox, others less so.

In my personal experience what I see and experience from the Christian Nationalist milieu is that Jesus just isn't really that important. Jesus functions primarily as a religious mascot rather than as Lord and Teacher. I don't think this is a novel feature of Christian Nationalism, this is--unfortunately--the result of turning Christianity into a civil religion in America. Christianity not as the religious body of teaching and practice that is based on Jesus Christ (Who He is, what He did, what He said) but is Christianity as civilization and cultural marker.

I've been coming up against that problem for the last twenty years. I was talking about this 20 years ago back when Beliefnet was around, and it's something I've been talking about here on Christian Forums for the last 15 years since I first joined. It shows up every time someone points God's commandments, especially Jesus' commandments, and perhaps even most especially in His Sermon on the Mount, and the general response is to not take it seriously. It happens every time when the point is made that Christ says that when He judges the nations He says to those on His right and on His left, "I was hungry" and "I was thirsty" but the response I get is, "That only applies to other Christians" or I'm told that we should prioritize certain groups of people. Why should I care about the stranger who is without food, I should instead only worry about if my kids are hungry.

It is in every attempt to remove Jesus as the ultimate authority of Christian life. To replace the Jesus we read about in Scripture with another Jesus. It's when someone like Mark Driscoll tried to say that Jesus was "A Dude" and that we can't have some wimpy sissy Jesus but some rugged manly man man Jesus. Rather than the Jesus of Mt. Calvary, the Jesus who weeps at the grave of His friend Lazarus, the Jesus who looks at the downtrodden and His heart breaks for them--He's replaced with a totally different fake Jesus. I'm told I can't believe in the Lamb because Jesus is "a lion now" or "will be a lion in the future"--but I don't know, my Bible says there is a Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world, that Lamb is seated at the right hand of God, worthy to open the scroll, and it is a Lamb who judges the world.

There is a fence, a gate and a gatekeeper, the thief climbs over the fence to steal.

Thereof, "No one comes to the Father but through me."

Further more, from Ethics of the Fathers 1:1,

The men of the great assembly would always say;

Be cautious in judgement, establish many pupils, and make a safety fence around the Torah.

Servus · Tuesday at 2:40 AM

So what's going on here is the usual there's nothing new about this, being treated as a brand new threat, because Trump.

Aryeh Jay · Tuesday at 3:31 AM

essentialsaltes said:
@SecWar is for official use, yes.

Likewise...

View attachment 374736

View attachment 374737

View attachment 374738

There's nothing wrong with this once you realize who the savior and king they are referring to is.

Servus · Tuesday at 5:51 AM

essentialsaltes said:
View attachment 374731

Secretary of War oversteps his office and the constitution. We The People do not have a Lord.

I'm sure you can find similar messages like that from past presidents and members of government. Nothing new. It's just when it's Trump era it's time to have a cow over it.

Servus · Tuesday at 5:56 AM

Aryeh Jay said:
There's nothing wrong with this once you realize who the savior and king they are referring to is.

View attachment 374750

I'm gonna bet 95% of stuff like that isn't produced by MAGAs, Republicans, the right, conservatives. The left paints him as a Messiah far more than any others.

DennisF · Tuesday at 8:26 AM

timewerx said:
After I did an exhaustive study of the Bible as a Christian, it only raised even more questions and doubts rather than answers.

I don't even think the Old Testament is part of the Christian literature nor even necessary. Only one thing is certain, the Old Testament is part of the Judaist literature. Fits with Judaism perfectly. Yet, Judaism is not Christianity and will never be.

People who loves genocide, money, exploitation will tend to quote more from the Old Testament and that is a huge problem.

You are a good candidate for becoming a follower of Marcion, the church heretic of an early century who taught that the OT god was a different god than the god revealed in Jesus - you know, the guy who drove the money-changers from the temple with a whip he put together himself.

essentialsaltes · Tuesday at 8:47 AM

Servus said:
So what's going on here is the usual there's nothing new about this,

False. Setting aside the bellicose sermon, having prayer services at the Pentagon is new.

essentialsaltes · Tuesday at 8:51 AM

Servus said:
I'm sure you can find similar messages like that from past presidents and members of government.

Show us. Why should I find these things you have imagined, but are sure exist?

BPPLEE · Tuesday at 8:53 AM

essentialsaltes said:
Show us. Why should I find these things you have imagined, but are sure exist?

https://x.com/POTUS46Archive/status/1871933921631330810?lang=en

essentialsaltes · Tuesday at 8:54 AM

BPPLEE said:
https://x.com/POTUS46Archive/status/1871933921631330810?lang=en

No one ever prevented people from saying Merry Christmas.

"My hope for our nation, today and always, is that we continue to seek the light of liberty and love, kindness and compassion, dignity and decency."

From what I understand, some of those things are not even Christian virtues at all nowadays. They're certainly not exclusively sectarian.

BPPLEE · Tuesday at 8:59 AM

essentialsaltes said:
No one ever prevented people from saying Merry Christmas.

"My hope for our nation, today and always, is that we continue to seek the light of liberty and love, kindness and compassion, dignity and decency."

From what I understand, some of those things are not even Christian virtues at all nowadays. They're certainly not exclusively sectarian.

"May God bless you all."

essentialsaltes · Tuesday at 9:17 AM

BPPLEE said:
"May God bless you all."

If you can't tell the difference between "May God Bless the American People" and "Jesus is our Lord and Savior" I can't help you.

BPPLEE · Tuesday at 9:25 AM

essentialsaltes said:
If you can't tell the difference between "May God Bless the American People" and "Jesus is our Lord and Savior" I can't help you.

Statement from President Joe Biden on Easter | The White House

Jill and I join Christians around the world in celebrating Easter Sunday, a day of hope and joy, renewal and rebirth. It marks the end of Lent, a period

bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov

Statement from President Joe Biden on Easter

Jill and I join Christians around the world in celebrating Easter Sunday, a day of hope and joy, renewal and rebirth. It marks the end of Lent, a period of sacrifice and contemplation. And it commemorates Christ’s Resurrection, a powerful reminder of God’s love and the promise of redemption for us all.

During Lent and especially on Good Friday, we held in our hearts all those who are suffering from threats of violence and persecution, grief and isolation, and illness, poverty, and other hardships.

Today, we hold close the Easter message that nothing – not even death – can match the power of faith, hope, and love. And we remember Jesus’ sacrifice and recommit ourselves to love God with all our hearts and to love our neighbors as ourselves, embracing His call to treat one another with compassion.

Servus · Tuesday at 9:31 AM

essentialsaltes said:
Show us. Why should I find these things you have imagined, but are sure exist?

Easter and Christmas messages: Obama regularly referenced Jesus Christ in official White House statements. For example, in Easter proclamations he spoke about “the resurrection of Jesus Christ” and its meaning for Christians.
2013 National Prayer Breakfast: He explicitly referred to Jesus’ teachings, saying that he tried to follow Christ’s example of humility and compassion, and he quoted the Bible.
Speeches on faith: Obama often acknowledged Jesus when discussing Christianity, including references to the Sermon on the Mount, loving one’s neighbor, and caring for the poor.
Personal faith remarks: While he emphasized religious pluralism, he also stated that he was a Christian and that Jesus Christ was central to his faith, even if he spoke about religion in a more inclusive, constitutional way as president.

essentialsaltes · Tuesday at 9:33 AM

BPPLEE said:
Statement from President Joe Biden on Easter

Much closer. But more personal (coming from "Jill and I") and shared with "those who gather in churches" rather than something applied to "all of us".

Servus · Tuesday at 9:34 AM

essentialsaltes said:
False. Setting aside the bellicose sermon, having prayer services at the Pentagon is new.

White House prayer meetings and Bible studies have been held by staff, cabinet members, and invited clergy.
These were often informal and voluntary, sometimes weekly, and typically held in rooms like the Roosevelt Room or private offices.

National Prayer Breakfast

While not always inside the White House, presidents (including Obama) regularly participated in or referenced this long-standing event, which has close ties to White House faith activities.

Presidential administrations

Jimmy Carter held prayer meetings and openly discussed his evangelical faith.
Ronald Reagan hosted and encouraged Christian prayer groups and chaplain visits.
George W. Bush had regular Bible studies and prayer meetings involving senior staff.
Barack Obama allowed and supported voluntary prayer meetings and faith-based discussions among staff, while also hosting interfaith events.
Donald Trump hosted prayer sessions in the Oval Office with clergy.
Joe Biden has participated in private prayer and faith observances and supported religious services and gatherings connected to the presidency.

Interfaith events

The White House has also hosted Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and interfaith prayer or reflection events, especially around holidays or national tragedies.

Legal context

These activities are considered constitutional as long as:
- Participation is voluntary
- They do not establish an official state religion
- They respect religious pluralism

So historically speaking, prayer in the White House is normal and well-documented, though the tone, frequency, and visibility vary depending on the president.
If you want, I can list specific dates, describe what happens in a typical White House prayer meeting, or explain how these differ from official government ceremonies.

essentialsaltes · Tuesday at 9:34 AM

Servus said:
Personal faith remarks: While he emphasized religious pluralism, he also stated that he was a Christian and that Jesus Christ was central to his faith, even if he spoke about religion in a more inclusive, constitutional way as president.

What were his official faith remarks? Oh, those were uttered in a more inclusive, constitutional way.

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At Pentagon Christmas Service, Franklin Graham Praises ‘God of War’ “We know that God loves. But did you know that God also hates?"

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Statement from President Joe Biden on Easter​

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Statement from President Joe Biden on Easter​

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National Prayer Breakfast​

Presidential administrations​

Interfaith events​

Legal context​

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Statement from President Joe Biden on Easter

Statement from President Joe Biden on Easter

National Prayer Breakfast

Presidential administrations

Interfaith events

Legal context