WHEN WAS THE LAW TAKEN AWAY. AND GRACE BEGAN. ??

Hentenza · Dec 27, 2025

@HIM

Here is the definition from yet another lexicon.

LN 18.23 cause to hang (Mt 18:6; Lk 23:39+); 2. LN 20.76 κρεμάννυμι ἐπὶ ξύλου (kremannymi epi xylou), crucify, formally, hang on wood (Ac 5:30; 10:39; Gal 3:13+); 3. LN 18.22 (dep.) hang from (Ac 28:4+); 4. LN 89.2 (dep.) depend upon (Mt 22:40+)

Swanson, James. 1997.

throughfierytrial · Dec 27, 2025

throughfierytrial said:
The Law was taken away at the cross.
Colossians 2:14

Also see more specific timing:

Matthew 27:50-52:

throughfierytrial · Dec 27, 2025

throughfierytrial said:
Also see more specific timing:

Matthew 27:50-52:

throughfierytrial · Dec 27, 2025

That is to say the moment the veil in the temple separating the Holy Place from The Most Holy Place is torn in two indicating mankind is extended Peace with God and allowed to approach Gods mercy seat directly and cry out “ABBA, Father”

Hentenza · Dec 27, 2025

@HIM

Here is the definition from yet another lexicon.

89.2 κρέμαμαιb: to be in a relation of dependency upon something—‘to depend upon.’ ἐν ταύταις ταῖς δυσὶν ἐντολαῖς ὅλος ὁ νόμος κρέμαται καὶ οἱ προφῆται ‘the entire Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments’ Mt 22:40. In a number of languages dependency as in Mt 22:40 may be expressed as ‘to hang on’ or ‘to be tied together by’ or ‘only have meaning because of.’ C Derivation (89.3)

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains.

throughfierytrial · Dec 27, 2025

BobRyan said:
Grace began in Gen 3, the moment Adam sinned , since God has stated that to was to die, and Adam lived over 900 years after he sinned.

The Law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant according to Jer 31 and according to Heb 8 and Heb 10.

"Sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4, still even in the NT age.

So then , it is "still a sin to take God's name in vain" just as it always was.

Agree in part. The promise of Messiah is Genesis 3 and looking to that promise was their salvation. OP mentions the dropping of the Law however which was added after Genesis 3 promise and done away with …as standing against mankind… on the cross as I tried to outline in previous posts citing Scripture

HIM · Dec 29, 2025

Hentenza said:
Using it is simple. All you do is read since they have done the linguistic work for you. I’m not sure why you find that so difficult.

None of the examples you shared use the word summed up in their definition.
As was said What is behind the 1 and 2 in Thayer's abridged edition are the definitions. Not the a and b. The a and b are how Thayer sees the word being used. Not how the word is defined. Key word in his summation in a and b is the word used. It was "used of one hanging on a cross" and it was "used of the law and prophets, they is summed up or hanging on two precepts". Summed up is not part of the definition. Summed up and hanging have two different meanings.

Here is Thayer's
- Definition:
1. to hang up or suspend
2. to be suspended, to hang
a. used of one hanging on a cross
b. used of the law and prophets, they is summed up or hanging on two precepts

The a and b that follows the second citation is not how the word is defined. It is how Thayer seen them being used, his commentary in respect to the text to which the word is used. Suspend and hang are synonyms. They are what define the word Summed up does not fit. Summed up and hanging are not synonyms. Summed up and suspend are not synonyms.

As was said the word in question is used 7 times in the NT. Nowhere can the phrase summed up be used and the verse have the same meaning. As a matter of fact, if you used summed up in 6 of them it wouldn't even make sense. Here are the 6: Matt 18:6, Luk 23:39, Acts 5:30, 10:39, 28:4, and Gal 3:13.

The LXX has an additional 28 times the word is used. And in every example found there a derivitive of the word hang is used to translate the word κρεμάννυμι found in
Matt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Hence why most translations used the word hang to translate the word in Matt 22:40. Because all the Law depend on Love for our God and Man.

Just like the definitions from the Lexicons YOU provided shared.

Hentenza said:
Here is the definition from another lexicon.

89.2 κρέμαμαι: to be in a relation of dependency upon something—‘to depend upon.’ ἐν ταύταις ταῖς δυσὶν ἐντολαῖς ὅλος ὁ νόμος κρέμαται καὶ οἱ προφῆται ‘the entire Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments’ Mt 22:40.

Louw, Johannes P., and Eugene Albert Nida. 1996.

Hentenza said:
@HIM

Here is the definition from yet another lexicon.

LN 18.23 cause to hang (Mt 18:6; Lk 23:39+); 2. LN 20.76 κρεμάννυμι ἐπὶ ξύλου (kremannymi epi xylou), crucify, formally, hang on wood (Ac 5:30; 10:39; Gal 3:13+); 3. LN 18.22 (dep.) hang from (Ac 28:4+); 4. LN 89.2 (dep.) depend upon (Mt 22:40+)

Swanson, James. 1997.

Hentenza said:
@HIM

Here is the definition from yet another lexicon.

89.2 κρέμαμαιb: to be in a relation of dependency upon something—‘to depend upon.’ ἐν ταύταις ταῖς δυσὶν ἐντολαῖς ὅλος ὁ νόμος κρέμαται καὶ οἱ προφῆται ‘the entire Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments’ Mt 22:40. In a number of languages dependency as in Mt 22:40 may be expressed as ‘to hang on’ or ‘to be tied together by’ or ‘only have meaning because of.’ C Derivation (89.3)

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains.

Hentenza · Dec 29, 2025

HIM said:
None of the examples you shared use the word summed up in their definition.
As was said What is behind the 1 and 2 in Thayer's abridged edition are the definitions. Not the a and b. The a and b are how Thayer sees the word being used. Not how the word is defined. Key word in his summation in a and b is the word used. It was "used of one hanging on a cross" and it was "used of the law and prophets, they is summed up or hanging on two precepts". Summed up is not part of the definition. Summed up and hanging have two different meanings.

Here is Thayer's
- Definition:
1. to hang up or suspend
2. to be suspended, to hang
a. used of one hanging on a cross
b. used of the law and prophets, they is summed up or hanging on two precepts

The a and b that follows the second citation is not how the word is defined. It is how Thayer seen them being used, his commentary in respect to the text to which the word is used. Suspend and hang are synonyms. They are what define the word Summed up does not fit. Summed up and hanging are not synonyms. Summed up and suspend are not synonyms.

As was said the word in question is used 7 times in the NT. Nowhere can the phrase summed up be used and the verse have the same meaning. As a matter of fact, if you used summed up in 6 of them it wouldn't even make sense. Here are the 6: Matt 18:6, Luk 23:39, Acts 5:30, 10:39, 28:4, and Gal 3:13.

The LXX has an additional 28 times the word is used. And in every example found there a derivitive of the word hang is used to translate the word κρεμάννυμι found in
Matt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Hence why most translations used the word hang to translate the word in Matt 22:40. Because all the Law depend on Love for our God and Man.

Just like the definitions from the Lexicons YOU provided shared.

You are trying very hard to put the Christian back under the bondage of the law. I gave you four definitions from four different lexicons and you continue to argue with the lexicons. You are not a Greek scholar and are not qualified to challenge the translation. At the end of the day the law and the prophets are dependent on Jesus two commandments which means that they are not necessary by themselves. There is no love on the law since the purpose of the law was always to convict.

Either way you look at it the law was nailed to the cross (Col. 2:14) and is no longer our guardian (Gal. 3:24). We walk with the Spirit (Rom. 8:2-4).

Studyman · Dec 29, 2025

Hentenza said:
You are trying very hard to put the Christian back under the bondage of the law.

The Law you were in bondage to, was the Law that said, "The soul that sins shall die", not the Law "Thou shall Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart". When you continue to sin, as those religious men who professed to know God in Paul's Time, who were rejecting God's Laws so that they might live by their own religious traditions, and go about establishing your own righteousness, you bring yourself back under the same bondage.

This is why Jesus said to those whose transgressions were forgiven, "Now go and sin no more". He wasn't trying to bring these men He forgave, "Back under the bondage of the law", as you imply Him is trying to do to you. He was instructing them NOT to bring themselves back under Bondage of the same Law HE just got done forgiving them for breaking.

Hentenza · Dec 29, 2025

Studyman said:
The Law you were in bondage to, was the Law that said, "The soul that sins shall die", not the Law "Thou shall Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart". When you continue to sin, as those religious men who professed to know God in Paul's Time, who were rejecting God's Laws so that they might live by their own religious traditions, and go about establishing your own righteousness, you bring yourself back under the same bondage.

This is why Jesus said to those whose transgressions were forgiven, "Now go and sin no more". He wasn't trying to bring these men He forgave, "Back under the bondage of the law", as you imply Him is trying to do to you. He was instructing them NOT to bring themselves back under Bondage of the same Law HE just got done forgiving them for breaking.

I feel sorry for you because if you keep one law then you have to keep them all and be judged by them. Until Jesus no one could keep the law perfectly and after Jesus people still can’t keep the law perfectly. So if you want to be under the law do so at your own peril.

What the law could not do was give us a way to have our sins forgiven but now that the law have been nailed to the cross all we have to do is confess our sins. And every one sins including you.

“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 1:8-10 (NASB2020) - If we say that we have no sin, we a | YouVersion

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all

bible.com

Studyman · Dec 30, 2025

Hentenza said:
I feel sorry for you because if you keep one law then you have to keep them all and be judged by them. Until Jesus no one could keep the law perfectly and after Jesus people still can’t keep the law perfectly. So if you want to be under the law do so at your own peril.

You seem to be preaching that if I don't steal something, "BECAUSE" God said, "Thou shall not Steal", then I am obligated to keep God's Other Laws as well, as if this is a bad thing. The Jesus "of the Bible" said "but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments". Do you feel sorry for me because I believe in the Jesus "of the bible"? Is this Jesus, in your religion, " tempting God, to put a yoke upon my neck, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Hentenza said:
What the law could not do was give us a way to have our sins forgiven but now that the law have been nailed to the cross all we have to do is confess our sins. And every one sins including you.

It is true that the Law was not created to take away sin, but to define sin so that those who repent and "Yield themselves" to God, might know what is Sin and what is not sin, as defined by God. Blessed with this wisdom and knowledge of God, they can now strive to be sinless, or as the Jesus "of the Bible" commands, perfect, even as my Father in Heaven is perfect. I am free from the Law of Sin, so I can strive to "Go and Sin no more" as the Christ, the Holy One of Israel who became a flesh and blood man in the person of Jesus, teaches since the foundation of the world.

Consider the foolishness and implication of your stated philosophy, " all we have to do is confess our sins". So if I lust after other women in my heart, and cheat on my wife, all I have to do is admit this sin to God, or maybe a group of people. But I can't stop lusting after other women in my heart, because if I obey that Law of God, then I'm obligated to obey God's other Laws as well.

Sadly, you are confused about what Yoke of Bondage Paul is speaking to. We are freed from the Law of Sin, "the soul that sins shall die", so that we can become a New Man, "which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." We are not freed from the Righteousness of God, as "many", who come in Christ's Name, imply.

Hentenza said:
“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 1:8-10 (NASB2020) - If we say that we have no sin, we a | YouVersion

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all

bible.com

It is true that all men have sinned, and to say that we have no sin on us, makes us a liar. But there are some who, as Paul teaches both Jew and Gentile, "repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance". These men, as it is written, "are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. These men, "who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality". These men "present their bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is our reasonable service". These men are "diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless". These men "labour, that, whether present or absent, they may be accepted of him". These men are "renewed in the spirit of their mind; And have put on the new man, which after God (Not man's religion) is created in righteousness and true holiness".

John, who you trust, also said these words.

1 John. 2: 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, "is a liar", and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, "in him" verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself "also so to walk", even as he walked.

This is why I said;

This is why Jesus said to those whose transgressions were forgiven, "Now go and sin no more". He wasn't trying to bring these men He forgave, "Back under the bondage of the law", as you imply Him is trying to do to you. He was instructing them NOT to bring themselves back under Bondage of the same Law HE just got done freeing them from. "The soul that Sins shall die".

Hentenza · Dec 30, 2025

Studyman said:
You seem to be preaching that if I don't steal something, "BECAUSE" God said, "Thou shall not Steal", then I am obligated to keep God's Other Laws as well, as if this is a bad thing. The Jesus "of the Bible" said "but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments". Do you feel sorry for me because I believe in the Jesus "of the bible"? Is this Jesus, in your religion, " tempting God, to put a yoke upon my neck, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

It is true that the Law was not created to take away sin, but to define sin so that those who repent and "Yield themselves" to God, might know what is Sin and what is not sin, as defined by God. Blessed with this wisdom and knowledge of God, they can now strive to be sinless, or as the Jesus "of the Bible" commands, perfect, even as my Father in Heaven is perfect. I am free from the Law of Sin, so I can strive to "Go and Sin no more" as the Christ, the Holy One of Israel who became a flesh and blood man in the person of Jesus, teaches since the foundation of the world.

Consider the foolishness and implication of your stated philosophy, " all we have to do is confess our sins". So if I lust after other women in my heart, and cheat on my wife, all I have to do is admit this sin to God, or maybe a group of people. But I can't stop lusting after other women in my heart, because if I obey that Law of God, then I'm obligated to obey God's other Laws as well.

Sadly, you are confused about what Yoke of Bondage Paul is speaking to. We are freed from the Law of Sin, "the soul that sins shall die", so that we can become a New Man, "which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." We are not freed from the Righteousness of God, as "many", who come in Christ's Name, imply.

It is true that all men have sinned, and to say that we have no sin on us, makes us a liar. But there are some who, as Paul teaches both Jew and Gentile, "repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance". These men, as it is written, "are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. These men, "who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality". These men "present their bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is our reasonable service". These men are "diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless". These men "labour, that, whether present or absent, they may be accepted of him". These men are "renewed in the spirit of their mind; And have put on the new man, which after God (Not man's religion) is created in righteousness and true holiness".

John, who you trust, also said these words.

1 John. 2: 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, "is a liar", and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, "in him" verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself "also so to walk", even as he walked.

This is why I said;

The problem for you is that salvation is NOT by works as you advocate. The Christian is NOT under the law and never will be. The Christian is under the Spirit who convicts us of sin and leads us to repentance and confession resulting in forgiveness. The law can’t do that.

You preach legalism and it will take you to pray and work with the Spirit to renounce legalism. Jesus was clear about the perils of legalism. I can’t change your mind, which was never my intention, unless you accept the knowledge and it comes from you.

I’ll leave with this:

“But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭16‬-‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 5:16-18 (NASB2020) - But I say, walk by the Spirit, and | YouVersion

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to o

bible.com

We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

WHEN WAS THE LAW TAKEN AWAY. AND GRACE BEGAN. ??

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Truth-Lover

Truth-Lover

Truth-Lover

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Truth-Lover

Friend

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Similar threads