Ukraine agrees to demilitarized economic zone in Donbas to advance Trump’s peace plan

Stopped_lurking · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
Sadly, since the "2008 Bucharest Summit, where NATO said Ukraine “will become a member of NATO” in the future, and my thought in my youth was "what the hell do we want Ukraine for with all their corruption.

Ask PolitiFact: Has Ukraine tried to join NATO?

Russian President Vladimir Putin has long cited NATO’s expansion into Eastern Europe as a pretext for his country’s inva

www.politifact.com

Yanukovych codified in law in 2010 that Ukraina was unaligned. When Russia occupied Crimea, Ukraina was not seeking to join NATO. This is a red herring.

Larniavc · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
Legally binding military commitment?

You see; this is one of the differences in the European and the American and Russian mindsets. Just because something isn't illegal doesn’t mean it’s fair game. Moreover, Russia has a storied history of violating legally binding treaties throwout history. Russia can never be trusted. It is the rabid dog that can only be placated for a while before it returns to you do demanding more. It needs to be put down.

Laodicean60 · Dec 27, 2025

Stopped_lurking said:
Yanukovych codified in law in 2010 that Ukraina was unaligned. When Russia occupied Crimea, Ukraina was not seeking to join NATO. This is a red herring.

2002?

Larniavc · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
No, but they are increasing attacks and cutting the south from the north by blowing up bridges.

And dying in their thousands and losing combat power and experience and money. Which from a selfish European point of view is great; every day Russia bleeds is a good day for civilised world. Unfair to Ukraine of course; but this continual self own by Russia is it’s own fault.

Stopped_lurking · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
2002?

No from your link it was 2010. They left the unaligned position in december of 2014, IIRC. After the occupation of Crimea.

Laodicean60 · Dec 27, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
Have fun in Russian influencer spaces.

I ain't trying to influence nothing! I am repeating history, sorry if it doesn't sound good, and I don't need a labal so stop name-calling.

Hans Blaster · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
I ain't trying to influence nothing! I am repeating history, sorry if it doesn't sound good, and I don't need a labal so stop name-calling.

I wasn't name calling or referring to you as an influencer. I just wished you well when you are elsewhere in spaces infested with Russian influenecers. Cheers.

Laodicean60 · Dec 27, 2025

Stopped_lurking said:
No from your link it was 2010. They left the unaligned position in december of 2014, IIRC. After the occupation of Crimea.

Come on, we don't live in a box; there is history. Western leaders said Ukraine would join NATO in 2008. Ukraine wanted NATO membership since 2002, but it was Russia's red line. We've been dangling that carrot since then. Even George jumped on the bandwagon in 2008, coward, because leaders were talking about it when the Ukrainian president then publicly stated he wanted to be in NATO in 2002.

From the link:
"In 2008, Ukraine requested a NATO membership action plan, which puts aspiring NATO members on track to potentially join the alliance by helping them to prepare for possible future membership. The alliance’s member nations did not agree by consensus to enter Ukraine into the program, but they did declare that Ukraine “will become” a member."

7thKeeper · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
It takes two to tango. Nice talking with you.

It takes one to invade.

7thKeeper · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
Sadly, since the "2008 Bucharest Summit, where NATO said Ukraine “will become a member of NATO” in the future, and my thought in my youth was "what the hell do we want Ukraine for with all their corruption.

Ask PolitiFact: Has Ukraine tried to join NATO?

Russian President Vladimir Putin has long cited NATO’s expansion into Eastern Europe as a pretext for his country’s inva

www.politifact.com

Except France immediately shot that down.

Stopped_lurking · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
Come on, we don't live in a box; there is history. Western leaders said Ukraine would join NATO in 2008. Ukraine wanted NATO membership since 2002, but it was Russia's red line. We've been dangling that carrot since then. Even George jumped on the bandwagon in 2008, coward, because leaders were talking about it when the Ukrainian president then publicly stated he wanted to be in NATO in 2002.

From the link:
"In 2008, Ukraine requested a NATO membership action plan, which puts aspiring NATO members on track to potentially join the alliance by helping them to prepare for possible future membership. The alliance’s member nations did not agree by consensus to enter Ukraine into the program, but they did declare that Ukraine “will become” a member."

Fact is when Crimea was occupied in 2014, Ukraina wasn't trying to join NATO. It is a red herring.

What is your position? If Ukraina had been trying join NATO before the occupation of Crimea, then Russia's actions are justified? If you at the same time say Russia was justified even if Ukraina wasn't trying join NATO, you are just saying that regardless of Ukraina's position Russia was justified.

durangodawood · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
It takes two to tango. Nice talking with you.

It take two for a rape to happen.

7thKeeper · Dec 27, 2025

Stopped_lurking said:
Fact is when Crimea was occupied in 2014, Ukraina wasn't trying to join NATO. It is a red herring.

I'm just waiting and expecting for the lie that there was a promise of no expansion to be thrown around soon.

durangodawood · Dec 27, 2025

7thKeeper said:
It takes one to invade.

Obviously, a tango is where two people decide to meet and do this fun thing together, right?

So, when we apply reasoning we can conclude that any event that requires two parties is a voluntary arrangement where both parties are equally responsibility for the consequences.

Yay for reasoning!

Laodicean60 · Dec 27, 2025

durangodawood said:
Obviously, a tango is where two people decide to meet and do this fun thing together, right?

Or punch each other in the mouth.

durangodawood · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
Or punch each other in the mouth.

A tango is where two people come together to punch each other in the mouth? You dance different in your country I guess.

Is a tango also where one person goes and punches another in the mouth to steal their stuff?

7thKeeper · Dec 27, 2025

durangodawood said:
A tango is where two people come together to punch each other in the mouth? You dance different in your country I guess.

Is a tango also where one person goes and punches another in the mouth to steal their stuff?

Well it would explain some of the arguments made.

Larniavc · Dec 27, 2025

durangodawood said:
A tango is where two people come together to punch each other in the mouth? You dance different in your country I guess.

Is a tango also where one person goes and punches another in the mouth to steal their stuff?

And then demands to stay in your house.

Larniavc · Dec 27, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
Come on, we don't live in a box; there is history. Western leaders said Ukraine would join NATO in 2008. Ukraine wanted NATO membership since 2002, but it was Russia's red line. We've been dangling that carrot since then. Even George jumped on the bandwagon in 2008, coward, because leaders were talking about it when the Ukrainian president then publicly stated he wanted to be in NATO in 2002.

From the link:
"In 2008, Ukraine requested a NATO membership action plan, which puts aspiring NATO members on track to potentially join the alliance by helping them to prepare for possible future membership. The alliance’s member nations did not agree by consensus to enter Ukraine into the program, but they did declare that Ukraine “will become” a member."

Ukraine wanting or not wanting g to join NATO is not a barometer for invasion by Russia.

Gaius Baltaring for Russia is really not a good look.

SoldierOfTheKing · Dec 28, 2025

Stopped_lurking said:
Fact is when Crimea was occupied in 2014, Ukraina wasn't trying to join NATO. It is a red herring.

What is your position? If Ukraina had been trying join NATO before the occupation of Crimea, then Russia's actions are justified? If you at the same time say Russia was justified even if Ukraina wasn't trying join NATO, you are just saying that regardless of Ukraina's position Russia was justified.

The Ukraine doesn't have to formally join NATO to threaten Russia. What Russia wants is assurance that NATO isn't going to use Ukrainian soil as a springboard for another Operation Barbarossa.

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Ukraine agrees to demilitarized economic zone in Donbas to advance Trump’s peace plan

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