Didascalia Apostolorum Teaching of the Apostles inspired scripture

chevyontheriver · Dec 19, 2025

samaus123456789 said:
You are really not wise are you.

You called me a pig and a Protestant. You seem to have a predilection for insult. So I'll just put you on 'ignore' and be done with it.

The dueling AI was funny though.

chevyontheriver · Dec 19, 2025

AFrazier said:
I'm a Christian, and a New Testament scholar of thirty years. You still need not waste your time, because I don't intend to waste time on someone like you. I have better things to do with my time than try to convince people of facts who can't be convinced of anything beyond the sound of their own voice.

You have a great day. I won't read your response, so don't bother.

I just 'ignored' him. Nothing I learned from him anyway, except that some people think if somebody authors something somebody else will think it is gospel truth.

chevyontheriver · Dec 19, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
I just 'ignored' him. Nothing I learned from him anyway, except that some people think if somebody authors something somebody else will think it is gospel truth.

Oh, and that AI is really not ready for prime time, what with dueling oracles and all.

AFrazier · Dec 20, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
Oh, and that AI is really not ready for prime time, what with dueling oracles and all.

lol

The AI wasn't really fighting with itself. He admits that he asked it a leading question. He wanted an answer, with the specific parameter that it answer him with the assumption the work was genuine. None of the AIs support his view when asked in a neutral way. But, again, I warned him about that in another post. He thinks ChatGPT is the cat's meow. Frankly, I find it to be one of the weakest of the AIs available. Claude Sonnet is much better when it comes to accuracy, but its information is more limited. Google Gemini is great for broader information farming, though it's notorious for hallucinations (false citations to incorrect works). ChatGPT has a tendency to outright make things up.

chevyontheriver · Dec 20, 2025

AFrazier said:
lol

The AI wasn't really fighting with itself. He admits that he asked it a leading question. He wanted an answer, with the specific parameter that it answer him with the assumption the work was genuine. None of the AIs support his view when asked in a neutral way. But, again, I warned him about that in another post. He thinks ChatGPT is the cat's meow. Frankly, I find it to be one of the weakest of the AIs available. Claude Sonnet is much better when it comes to accuracy, but its information is more limited. Google Gemini is great for broader information farming, though it's notorious for hallucinations (false citations to incorrect works). ChatGPT has a tendency to outright make things up.

If an AI provides you with the answers you want rather than something true then it's pretty lame. So for now ai;dr.

stevevw · Dec 22, 2025

I think we want to grab onto as many writings of the disciples as possible. Especially pertaining to the early church. I also like the writings of Clement and Ignatius as they help paint a picture of the early church ermerging during and after the disciples.

I think the period after Christ and until around mid 2nd century is an important period Christians should know as I think this is about as close as we will get to how Christian fellowship and worshop is. After that it becomes more elaborated on the further we go from the cross.

chevyontheriver · Dec 22, 2025

stevevw said:
I think we want to grab onto as many writings of the disciples as possible. Especially pertaining to the early church. I also like the writings of Clement and Ignatius as they help paint a picture of the early church ermerging during and after the disciples.

I think the period after Christ and until around mid 2nd century is an important period Christians should know as I think this is about as close as we will get to how Christian fellowship and worshop is. After that it becomes more elaborated on the further we go from the cross.

All very true. And yet neither the Catholics nor the Orthodox have accepted these documents as Scripture. And even if a genuine book by the apostle Paul were to be discovered, it would be very interesting but it would not become Scripture.

I have studied Ignatius of Antioch and found him very compelling. I have also read Irenaeus of Lyon's 'Against the Heresies' where he catalogued all of the bat crazy Gnostic heresies that popped up everywhere. Point being that not every old document is worthy just because it is old or claims apostolic authorship. Some are bat crazy. Some informative. But the canon is closed. At least for Catholics and Orthodox.

AFrazier · Dec 23, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
All very true. And yet neither the Catholics nor the Orthodox have accepted these documents as Scripture. And even if a genuine book by the apostle Paul were to be discovered, it would be very interesting but it would not become Scripture.

I have studied Ignatius of Antioch and found him very compelling. I have also read Irenaeus of Lyon's 'Against the Heresies' where he catalogued all of the bat crazy Gnostic heresies that popped up everywhere. Point being that not every old document is worthy just because it is old or claims apostolic authorship. Some are bat crazy. Some informative. But the canon is closed. At least for Catholics and Orthodox.

I suppose that might be reconsidered if something surfaced in a horde of first century documents, like 3 Corinthians, which we know was written. We just don't have a copy of it. I don't know if it would become immediately part of the Bible, but upon careful confirmation of its authenticity, it would surely be treated as canon, even if not directly included.

chevyontheriver · Dec 23, 2025

AFrazier said:
I suppose that might be reconsidered if something surfaced in a horde of first century documents, like 3 Corinthians, which we know was written. We just don't have a copy of it. I don't know if it would become immediately part of the Bible, but upon careful confirmation of its authenticity, it would surely be treated as canon, even if not directly included.

I don't think so. In God's provenance 3 Corinthians was not preserved. Nothing was seen as necessary in it.

What doctrines would you be willing to change to accommodate 3 Corinthians?

3 Corinthians might be fascinating. It might provide new understandings on Pauline authorship. Whatever. But when it comes down to it, it has not been part of the faith for 2000 years. What have we missed in 2000 years that it could add?

The canon is closed. It has been closed for more than a thousand years, about 1650 years.

ARBITER01 · Dec 23, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
I don't think so. In God's provenance 3 Corinthians was not preserved. Nothing was seen as necessary in it.

What doctrines would you be willing to change to accommodate 3 Corinthians?

3 Corinthians might be fascinating. It might provide new understandings on Pauline authorship. Whatever. But when it comes down to it, it has not been part of the faith for 2000 years. What have we missed in 2000 years that it could add?

The canon is closed. It has been closed for more than a thousand years, about 1650 years.

GOD can do whatever HE wants. There's no law established by GOD that says HE will not speak anymore through a prophet.

chevyontheriver · Dec 23, 2025

ARBITER01 said:
GOD can do whatever HE wants. There's no law established by GOD that says HE will not speak anymore through a prophet.

Then Joseph Smith and Ellen White and whatever else pops up.

ARBITER01 · Dec 23, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
Then Joseph Smith and Ellen White and whatever else pops up.

Maybe for those that can't discern.

chevyontheriver · Dec 23, 2025

ARBITER01 said:
Maybe for those that can't discern.

Some of us discern a fixed canon.

ARBITER01 · Dec 23, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
Some of us discern a fixed canon.

Lol, ok, I would say you need to discern GOD more. He's not obligated to abide by what we think.

chevyontheriver · Dec 23, 2025

ARBITER01 said:
Lol, ok, I would say you need to discern GOD more.

Of course I need to do more of that. And so do you.

ARBITER01 said:
He's not obligated to abide by what we think.

Nope, He's not. Whether we think we can add to the canon of Scripture or we think we can remove from the canon of Scripture.

ARBITER01 · Dec 23, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
Nope, He's not. Whether we think we can add to the canon of Scripture or we think we can remove from the canon of Scripture.

Or whether HE wants to, there is nothing in scripture from HIM saying that HE won't or wouldn't. HE has not boxed HIMSELF in like that, but some people tend to think HE has for some reason.

prodromos · Dec 23, 2025

Scripture Canon refers to what is read from in the context of the Church Liturgy. It is now long established which passages are read on which days throughout the liturgical year, so I don't think that would likely change if legitimate copies of 3 Corinthians were found. Such works would simply be added to the list of "profitable to read" books

chevyontheriver · Dec 23, 2025

ARBITER01 said:
Or whether HE wants to, there is nothing in scripture from HIM saying that HE won't or wouldn't. HE has not boxed HIMSELF in like that, but some people tend to think HE has for some reason.

That would be the LDS argument, that God decided that the canon of Scripture needed enlarging so he showed his prophet where to unearth the old plates and decode them.

ARBITER01 · Dec 23, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
That would be the LDS argument, that God decided that the canon of Scripture needed enlarging so he showed his prophet where to unearth the old plates and decode them.

My statement is true.

chevyontheriver · Dec 23, 2025

ARBITER01 said:
My statement is true.

Your statement leaves it to anybody to 'discern' some 'new revelation' that God hasn't provided for in the Bible. In practice that is what an open canon involves.

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Didascalia Apostolorum Teaching of the Apostles inspired scripture

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