Antinomianism, definition and a Question "is this you"?

Sadly too common today and if you obey Chrust you're a "pharisee".

BobRyan said:

Definition for "Antinomianism"

AI:

Antinomianism
is a term used in Christian theology to describe the belief that, because salvation is granted by divine grace through faith, believers are not bound by the moral law of God, including the Ten Commandments. The word itself comes from the Greek anti ("against") and nomos ("law"), literally meaning "against the law"

R.C. Sproul

What Are Legalism and Antinomianism?

Legalism and antinomianism undergird all forms of false teaching and heresy.

learn.ligonier.org

"Antinomianism says that God does not require a believer to obey the Law of God (the Ten Commandments)"

Antinomianism | Monergism

Antinomianism is a theological heresy that holds that, because of grace and faith in Christ, believers are no longer bound to obey the moral law of God. The

www.monergism.com

Antinomianism is a theological heresy that holds that, because of grace and faith in Christ, believers are no longer bound to obey the moral law of God. The term comes from the Greek words anti (against) and nomos (law), and it literally means “against the law.” Antinomianism falsely teaches that Christians, having been saved by grace, are free from the obligations of the moral law, leading to a rejection of the law’s role in the Christian life.

If you have read the threads on this particular forum then every now and then you will see someone arguing against the moral law of God , specifically the Ten Commandments. As James 2 says "he who is guilty of breaking one is guilty of breaking them all"

As Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

hint: What are the set of commandments in scripture where the first one in that list WITH a promise is the 5th commandment calling children to Honor father and mother.

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If antinomianism (lit. against law) is regarding no longer being bound by the "moral law of God" then the critical question is what is the "moral law of God". This is not terminology found in scripture, so there is no biblical way to isolate what this moral law of God is and what it is not, which begs the question: Is this responsible terminology/should we be using it? Scripture doesn't bifurcate law, and when the subject of law is raised, law is treated as whole units defined within covenants. Some indeed have more of a moral foundation and others ceremonial/ritual or symbolic, but the law doesn't separate itself to sub categories like this, that's a post-biblical thing to do. So the real question is what aspects of the law of the old covenant should we consider universally moral? The answer, as it applies to the legal code, is nothing. The legal code is meant for the covenant and those outside the covenant are not bound by it (that's how covenants work). That isn't to say they are not based on a universal moral framework but they are not universal themselves, which is an important distinction. Instead, the framework they are based on is universal, which is more foundational to the character and root of God than a covenantal law ever can be.

Even a commandment like "Do not murder," which sounds perfectly agreeable, is not a moral foundation of the NC. The moral foundation of the NC is not about passive resisting evil like murdering, stealing, lying, sleeping with your neighbour's wife, etc... but instead is about actively seeking love and is primarily guided by the Spirit. It's actually pretty easy to resist murdering my neighbour (I haven't done it yet), but I may still cross the street and ignore him when I see he needs help. In doing so, I do not break the 10, which just exposes the limits of the 10, but not the moral framework they are based on.

So what's the moral framework that's better than these laws (better than the 10)? Fortunately, Jesus spells it out in Mat 22:37-40 "And he said to him,“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” He says it right there, that all the law and prophets are based on these two commandments, so this is the moral framework the 10 are based on. There is no list here, and it operates more like a heuristic approach requiring active critical involvement in our actions. NT authors also affirm this same law. Paul calls it "Christ's law (1 Cor 9). James calls it "the Royal law." (Jam 2)

So if by "moral law" we mean the moral framework that law is based on, then Christ spells it out, and this is fundamental to NC teaching. But I suspect "moral law" is a code word for smuggling in the 10 commandments. so if antinomianism in practice means "no longer bound by the 10 commandments" then or course I affirm this. For some reason, people seem to think that without the 10 we will steal, murder, lie and have sex with everyone we see. This plainly is not true, one, we have the Spirit in us to guide us (this is critical), and I have confidence in the Spirit's mechanism given by God. The Spirit is the sign of the NC agreement, so it is crucial to our worldview operating as followers of Christ and we need the Spirit to understand the lens of God. There is no other way around this, and the 10 commandments do not accomplish this the way the Spirit can. The 10 operate several levels in so highly contextualized, where the Spirit is the direct source. but we also have Christ's law to help align ourselves (as well as a host of NT teaching), the product of which will not be murdering, stealing, lying, etc... but now loving our neighbour as ourselves, which is a foreign product of the 10 but a critical part of the NC. The OC focuses on morality from the outside in. eg. I do X, Y, Z therefore I am good. But the NC is focused on an inward outflowing, where our moral expressions and worship are from an outflowing from the heart. As a Christian, that outflowing is rooted by the Spirit, not by the 10 commandments. This is the meaning of "laws written upon our heart" (2 Cor 3) it is not the 10 commandments smuggled in the NC, but the quality of the Spirit impacting our core and overflowing to all actions. We are not dependent upon lists in the NC, we are dependent upon the leading of the Spirit. Even if the outflow looks "good" without the Spirit as its source, it can be that of a clanging symbol. I'm not sure why anyone would argue with this, as it is fundamental to NC teaching. I am spirit-led, not stone-led. Is the output the same? It doesn't matter because it is not a "both x AND y" system. I am emphatically Spirit-led.

BobRyan said:

Sadly all the Confessions of Faith of major Christian groups claim you are wrong.

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BobRyan said:

so then if the dictionary and history of the NT church is correct?

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BobRyan said:

yep. Hence all the confessions of faith addressing that very point and even the definition for antinomianism pointing to the TEN Commandments

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BobRyan said:

It is probably a bit uncomfortable if one is used to posting in opposition to the Ten Commandments, given how the definition for antinomianism reads.

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church history supports a position that you ultimately reject. which is changing the Sabbath to Sunday. maintaining Sabbath on the 7th day is simply not a popular held view throughout the history of the church. if you wish to use church history as your model it is coupling two values of gathering on the 1st day and the sabbath. more recent views like that of SDA have shifted this coupling to the 7th day but the gathering part for worship is not the quintessential value of the day according to the letter of the law. SDA will find scripture to endorse their positions but refuse to accept that fundamentally their starting point was adopting main stream Christian Sunday values and shifting them to the 7th over adopting biblical values. essentially what you get is a Sunday-worship-version on the 7th day. these values don't have to compete with each other, and that's not what I'm saying, but SDA doctrinal positions are clearly influenced are cultural trends to set the values of the day and loosely biblical values.

BobRyan said:

Until you read Heb 10 where "He takes away the first to establish the second" vs 4-10 where it is explicitly speaking of "animal sacrifice and offerings" all the while "The Commandments of God" are strongly affirmed in 1 Cor 7:19 where "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1 in that still valid unit of TEN

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a comprehensive study of a Hebrew will show that it does not flatten law in the sense of one aspect is done away with (like the sacrafice) every aspect is done away with. this can lead to some contrasting claims on how we categorize these laws. but the 10 commandments are not an endorsed category that stands alone and there certainly is no label on the 10 commandments calling it "God's Moral Law" all of which are biblical injection. there are moral and monthesitic claims that reaffirm their counterparts in the 10 but the 4th is not one them. it instead speaks of Sabbath as something beyond a human requirement of physical rest but a rest found in God. it's claim is beyond external keeping of the law and reframing it to entering God's rest. it's reference of Sabbath is not of a physical day, but of a mode or state of rest coupling ideas of God's completed work ushering in this rest like that of creation. the reframing shifts the focus to God's action over shaping the new covenant over our actions where the quintessential moment is now, not a specific day.

BobRyan said:

No wonder the Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19, and the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19 , and D.L. Moody's sermon on the Ten Commandments, and R.C. Sproul, and C.H. Spurgeon affirm the TEN as included in the moral law of God

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You mean they affirm that Sunday is the Sabbath? I'm not an advocate for that, but it would seem a counterpoint to your argument, yet you copy and paste it like a mic drop. your list affirms X and Y, you reject X and affirm Y but don't see this as a conflict. if they are right about Y (which you both agree) doesn't this add to the credibility of their claim of coupling it with X? or if they are wrong about X doesn't this question the credibility of the claim made on Y? But your not interested in critically approaching this, you only take what you want and throw out the rest which shows a highly biased view.

BobRyan said:

1 Cor 7:19 what matters is keeping the Commandments of God
John 14:15 Love Me and KEEP My Commandments
Ex 20:6 Love Me and KEEP My Commandments
Rev 14:12 the saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus
1 John 5:3 this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments
Epn 6:1 where the first COMMANDMENT with a promise is "Honor your father and mother"


My Response texts above show that the Commandments of God include the TEN where the first commandment with a promise is "Honor your father and mother.


wishful thinking.

Heb 10 perfectly isolates "sacrifices and offerings".

The antinomian position has a lot of Bible challenges to overcome.

Some antinomians don't like it. That is for sure.

Until you read Heb 10

Until you read Heb 10

For those who don't read Heb 10:4-16 or Acts 15, or Rom 13, or Rom 7 or James 2 or Deut 5 "He spoke these Ten and added no more"

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Exactly.

Jesus was predicted to do 2 things with the laws- so therefore all laws are not treated as the whole law.

The Ten Commandments is the whole law of God and the law of Moses is the whole law of Moses. One written by God, He placed His seal on the document of Ten Deut4:13 Exo20:6 Exo20:11, that no more were added Deut5:22 and the law of Moses was written by the hand of Moses and was written in a book placed besides God's Ten Commandments Deut31:24-26

God made these distinctions plainly

2 Chro 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.”

The "I" speaking is God and what He commanded Exo20:1-17 is the whole law AND there was the law of Moses, written by Moses.


God predicted with His first coming two things to the law.

Dan 7:25 Then he shall confirm a [a]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [b]desolate.”

He put an end to one as also shown in Heb 10:1-10 Col2:14-17 Heb9:10-15 an end to animal sacrifices and offerings which would include the annual holy days that had to do with animal sacrifices offerings that some were also called annual sabbaths feast day offerings that also had animal sacrifices.

He promised to do this to another Law- the one written by the Holy Spirit of Truth, the Ten Commandments Exo31:18

Isa 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
The word used here means make larger, not greater.

Obviously by these clear Scriptures God promised a law would end until the Seed came (animal sacrifices and offerings) and another He would make greater - His Law, the Ten Commandments and we see clear examples of Jesus doing just that, placing them in the heart of the believer, quoting from the Ten Commandments- relating anger to the commandment of thou shalt not murder, relating improper thoughts to thou shalt not commit adultery, fixing the heart, which the NC believer would be keeping all of God's commandments - why He told us not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments. Mat5:19-30.


If everyone would be keeping the Ten Commandments they way Jesus explained they are to be kept, there would be no more sin. Why people fight not wanting to keep them when our Heavenly Father wrote them and said showing mercy to those who love me and Keep My commandments Exo20:6 , but the Bible explains it.


John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Most people are "okay" with 9 of the Ten Commandments, its just a day many say, disregarding what God said- Remember, if you love Me, keep My commandments, the Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord thy God, made for man and everyone who joins themselves to Him.

No wonder why God singles this out for breaking the Sabbath...

Neh 13:17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said to them, “What evil thing is this that you do, by which you profane the Sabbath day?


Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

Jesus still said we can do evil on the Sabbath, why He said it is profaning it.

Mark 3:4 Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?”

God relates to breaking the Sabbath as going after an idol and our heart being wrong Eze20:16 because we are replacing words of someone else with the Word of God of the Universe, our Creator Exo20:11, the only God we are to worship Rev14:7

With His Second Coming, His saints overcome and keep His commandments and are reconciled back to God Rev14:12 Rev22:14 Exo20:6

BobRyan said:

Definition for "Antinomianism"

AI:

Antinomianism
is a term used in Christian theology to describe the belief that, because salvation is granted by divine grace through faith, believers are not bound by the moral law of God, including the Ten Commandments. The word itself comes from the Greek anti ("against") and nomos ("law"), literally meaning "against the law"

R.C. Sproul

What Are Legalism and Antinomianism?

Legalism and antinomianism undergird all forms of false teaching and heresy.

learn.ligonier.org

"Antinomianism says that God does not require a believer to obey the Law of God (the Ten Commandments)"

Antinomianism | Monergism

Antinomianism is a theological heresy that holds that, because of grace and faith in Christ, believers are no longer bound to obey the moral law of God. The

www.monergism.com

Antinomianism is a theological heresy that holds that, because of grace and faith in Christ, believers are no longer bound to obey the moral law of God. The term comes from the Greek words anti (against) and nomos (law), and it literally means “against the law.” Antinomianism falsely teaches that Christians, having been saved by grace, are free from the obligations of the moral law, leading to a rejection of the law’s role in the Christian life.

If you have read the threads on this particular forum then every now and then you will see someone arguing against the moral law of God , specifically the Ten Commandments. As James 2 says "he who is guilty of breaking one is guilty of breaking them all"

As Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

hint: What are the set of commandments in scripture where the first one in that list WITH a promise is the 5th commandment calling children to Honor father and mother.

Click to expand...

The problem with your premise is the typical fallacy by legalists. Your real argument is if you don’t believe in keeping the Jewish law then you are committing a heresy. The other part of your argument that fails is the part where you ignore that Jesus redemptive sacrifice ushered in a new covenant. A covenant is like a contract and has unique terms.

As we have discussed before the non legalist position is that Jesus fulfilled (completed) the 613 commandments of the law including the 10 commandments and the dietary laws that your church still follows. So does this means that God’s moral law is no longer applicable? Absolutely not. Jesus gave us two love commandments and into them He repeated 9 of the 10 commandments. For the 4th commandment Jesus is Lord of the sabbath so the Christian rest is now in Jesus not in a day. In addition, the 4th commandment was never a moral commandment but a ceremonial commandment as the Mosaic law plainly shows.

The moral commandments of the Jewish law including the Ten Commandments were summarized in Jesus’s two commandments.

“Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Which law and which prophets do you think Jesus is talking about? It says ALL of it not just some of it.

“For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


The WHOLE LAW was fulfilled (completed) in ONE word. All of the law is now one word in the one commandment. Pretty cool that Jesus can put all 613 laws including the 10 commandments into one word. I guess that is what happens when Jesus is the only one that was ever able to keep it perfectly therefore nailing all of it to the cross.

If you want to stay in the law then go right ahead but the rest of us will live by the Spirit which is now the one that convicts us of our sins.

Tell me, are those under the law able to confess their sin in order to be forgiven? Were the Jews under the law able to do that? Christ redemptive sacrifice for the propitiation of our sins allows us to do what the law never did. It’s simple really.

“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

With Jesus we still sin but ALL we have to do now is just confess our sins and He is faithful and forgives us. Can people under the law do that ? Of course not. But, you ask, how do we know that we are sinning without the law? Well, Jesus tells us of course.

“But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me; and regarding righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you no longer are going to see Me; and regarding judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭7‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


Look the Helper that Jesus is sending, the Holy Spirit, will take the responsibility of convicting us of our sins. Why? Because we still sin just like you do and I do, but the good news is that we no longer LIVE in sin because of the guidance of the Spirit. Why would we need the law if we have something much better? So what happened in the past has been wiped clean by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ who died in the cross for the propitiation of our sins.

The new covenant contains the gospel of good news which does not include the Mosaic law.

You continue to post this as if it helps you in any way.

“Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

* - 10 as-is or else in edited form”

None of these denominations and people believe in the legalism that you and your church believe in. They think of the Ten Commandments just as other mainstream churches do which is as I explained above. Secondly none of these denominations and people keep the Jewish sabbath like you do. All of these denominations and people believe that the sabbath now is Christ resurrection day which is Sunday. Why would anyone in the new covenant want to celebrate a day when Jesus was still in the tomb?

Jesus saying He made the Sabbath for mankind Mar 2:27 that He is Lord of the Sabbath, Mark2:28 is not saying the 4th commandment is no longer for mankind, the opposite of what Jesus said. When is being Lord of something, means what He is Lord of doesn't exist?? He already spoke on this matter clearly and wrote it out so no one will have excuses Exo20:10 Isa58:13 Changing the spoken and written Testimony of God written by God, is sure taking a lot of liberties that only God holds, not man Pro30:6

The Lord already spoke on this matter and nothing else can mean anything different.


Isa 66:15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by His sword
The Lord will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the Lord shall be many.

Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

I can't help but wonder if one is so opposed to keeping the holy day of the Lord now, would they really be happy in the new heaven and new earth. Would the God of love force one to do so, against their will, or will His judgement really be one of love that He loves us too much to make us do something against our will for eternity, but His will, will always prevail, because His ways are above our ways and He know the only way to remove sin is to remove the sinner who won't repent and turn from their sins.

BobRyan said:

My Response texts above show that the Commandments of God include the TEN where the first commandment with a promise is "Honor your father and mother.

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it shows how much you want it so conflat every "God's commandment" with the 10

1 Cor 7:19 biblically is not referring to the OC. when compared with Gal 5:6 and Gal 6:15, which are mirror versions the matter is settled. Paul does not point to the 10, he points to an identity unique to the NC.

John uniquely refers to a new commandment of Christ not the OC, all his references (John, 1, 2 , 3 John, Revelation) inherit this context, the context that John himself sets (not that you are trying to inject)

regarding the 5th commandment, NC values do extract from OC morals as a teaching root. however if you suggest because of X, Y, Z, is valued the entire 10 is smuggled in with it, then this cannot be biblically supported and to be blunt is irresponsible. there is no NT commandment for the 4th. that's not an exaggeration, that just how it is.

Ex 20 is when the 10 are introduced. if you intend that the "first commandment with a promise" means all commandments are brought in you better read Ex 20-24. there is a lot of commandments before the blood covenant is made. the covenant is regarding all the commandments spoken by God which is everything in Ex 20-23. there's a lot of good stuff in there, but also things we do not keep. your inconsistency is something I cannot respect or take your postion seriously as it is clear you're not critically interested in engaging this subject only interested in parroting a tradition's views.

SabbathBlessings said:

Jesus saying He made the Sabbath for mankind Mar 2:27 that He is Lord of the Sabbath, Mark2:28 is not saying the 4th commandment is no longer for mankind, the opposite of what Jesus said.

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“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Notice the “so” in verse 28.

Strong’s Definitions
ὥστε hṓste, hoce'-teh; from G5613 and G5037; so too, i.e. thus therefore (in various relations of consecution, as follow):—(insomuch) as, so that (then), (insomuch) that, therefore, to, wherefore.

The verses read that the sabbath was made for man therefore (so) Jesus is Lord of the sabbath. Jesus has full authority over the sabbath so He, as fully man and fully God, is our Christian rest.

Hentenza said:

“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Mark 2:27-28 (NASB2020) - Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath wa | YouVersion

Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

bible.com

Notice the “so” in verse 28.

Strong’s Definitions
ὥστε hṓste, hoce'-teh; from G5613 and G5037; so too, i.e. thus therefore (in various relations of consecution, as follow):—(insomuch) as, so that (then), (insomuch) that, therefore, to, wherefore.

The verses read that the sabbath was made for man therefore (so) Jesus is Lord of the sabbath. Jesus has full authority over the sabbath so He, as fully man and fully God, is our Christian rest.

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Yup and doesn't change what Jesus is Lord of, the Sabbath, which is not an example of Him ending the Sabbath or that the Sabbath no longer exists or who He made the Sabbath for that He just said plainly, is no longer binding. One would have to add that to what Jesus said, when its plainly not there.

SabbathBlessings said:

Yup and doesn't change what Jesus is Lord of, the Sabbath, which is not an example of Him ending the Sabbath or that the Sabbath no longer exists or who He made the Sabbath for that He just said plainly, is no longer binding. One would have to add that to what Jesus said, when its plainly not there.

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The sabbath exists in Jesus. The Jewish sabbath no longer exists as it was part of the Mosaic law and not part of the new covenant.

Hentenza said:

The sabbath exists in Jesus. The Jewish sabbath no longer exists as it was part of the Mosaic law and not part of the new covenant.

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These appear to be your words, not what Jesus said plainly Mark2:27-28 Isa56:6. Whoever we obey is who we serve. Rom6:16 Why Jesus said to live by His words, not mans and said not to add our words to His. This is telling Him what He says doesn't matter, our words mean more than His.

But this is quite typical when one can't prove their point, just go on to the next argument, never really allowing the Words of God to register and to evoke change .

There is no Scripture that says this

The Jewish sabbath no longer exists as it was part of the Mosaic law and not part of the new covenant.

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God who is Jesus, said this about the Ten Commandments, it His own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 that included the Sabbath commandment. Exo20:8-11

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Why the Sabbath continues for eternity Isa66:22-23 made for mankind Mark2:27 and everyone who loves and wants to join themselves to Him that holds fast His covenant Isa56:2 because God's Laws never changed, just the location Heb8:10 2Cor3:3, the words He promised not to alter Psa89:34. I could always take your word for it, but you can't save me. Why my faith is in God because He loves us so much He died for us, and He can save us if we repent and turn from our evil ways. I would hate to make His death in vain so I am going to stick with what He says over what man says and is a popular tradition of man telling me to break one of the commandments of God Mat7:7-13 written personally by the Holy Spirit of Truth Exo31:18

BobRyan said:

yep

"Mankind shall not live by bread alone" Matt 4.
"The Sabbath was MADE for mankind not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 speaks of the making of BOTH in Gen 1-2

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Nope. That’s you reading the old covenant into the new covenant. Why do you always ignore Mark2:28?

BobRyan said:

Instead of the much imagined "Sabbath was MADE For Jews"

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Sabbath was made for man, Jesus is fully man and fully God (the cornerstone of the new covenant), therefore Jesus is the Lord if the sabbath.

BobRyan said:

Sabbath commandment Exodus 20 does not say "for in 6 days God made the Jews and rested the seventh day"

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It does not say that nor did anyone say that it does. That’s your typical Strawman.

BobRyan said:

The creation event is ALL MANKIND being made in that 7 day week.

Sabbath was made in Gen 2:2-3 as even Exodus 20:11 points out ... so than Jesus who made the Sabbath in Gen 2 is Lord of it.

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The old covenant sabbath no longer exists since it was part of the Mosaic law which is not part of the new covenant. The Christian’s sabbath rest is in Jesus not on a day.

BobRyan said:

Mark 2 does not say Jesus made the Sabbath in Mark 2 or that He became Lord of it in Mark 2.

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Sure does. It’s in the verse that you keep ignoring, verse 28.

BobRyan said:

James 2 says to set aside one of God's commandments is to set aside them all. Which means it is a fitting topic for this particular thread

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Right. So you don’t want to remain under the guardianship of the law since it will profit you nothing. Paul says the same thing in Galatians.

BobRyan said:

Until you read Eph 6:1 where "the first commandment with a promise is Honor your father and mother" in that still valid unit of TEN
And Rom 13, James 2, Matt 19 ...

It is referring to scripture
It is referring to "The Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Eph 6:1 where "the first commandment with a promise is Honor your father and mother" in that still valid unit of TEN

Click to expand...

you're still conflating. "commandment" is ambiguous and can be defined differently based on context. to apply a universal meaning is irresponsible. for example the context of 1 Cor 7:19 is not the 10 commandments, this is revealed by reading it's mirror verses of Gal 5:6 and Gal 6:15. they all address the same thing, not "in addition to" 1 Cor 7:19 calls this thing "commandments of God" but it is not a reference to the 10, it's a reference unique to the NC.

the first commandment with a promise would invoke a whole lot more than the 10 if you intend to use that to smuggle them in. because you refuse to consider the rest of the these commandments and only stop at the 10 I cannot take your position seriously. Ex 20-23 details these initial covenantal commandments that indeed include the 10 but are not limited to them. I know SDA typically don't count these, but that's an SDA problem not a biblical one, this is how God presents them.