• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Do the Ten Commandments apply to Christians today?

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,719
12,091
Georgia
✟1,125,430.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Again, no verse that shows that anyone kept the sabbath before Moses.
Until you read Gen 2:2-3 where the entire reason we HAVE a seven day week and not a 6 day week is that God MADE the Sabbath as Gen 2 points out and as the Sabbath command itself states in Ex 20:11

were we simply "not supposed to notice?

you have no "do not take God's name in vain" in the text before Ex 20:7 yet it is basic knowledge to all of us that this was in place even in Eden.

Too easy to miss this detail

"Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27 ... at the "making" of mankind, the Sabbath was made.

In Genesis 1-2
Secondly, Gen 6-7 contains the 7 Noahic laws which included not eating the flesh of a live animal
Yet clean vs unclean distinction details do not show up until Lev 11. Even though they needed to implement that distinction in Gen 7.

Your responses simply skim over details that show your solution does not work
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,820
5,438
On the bus to Heaven
✟171,309.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Until you read Gen 2:2-3 where the entire reason we HAVE a seven day week and not a 6 day week is that God MADE the Sabbath as Gen 2 points out and as the Sabbath command itself states in Ex 20:11
Again, no verse that states that anyone before Moses kept the sabbath. And as I stated in my previous post and you avoided like the plague is the FACT that no one read Genesis or Exodus until Moses wrote them in the 15th century BCE. Are you not aware of biblical history?
were we simply "not supposed to notice?
Notice what? That seven day week has nothing to do with the 4th commandment. There was a seven day week even before the 4th commandment was given by God to Moses. No one kept the sabbath before then.
you have no "do not take God's name in vain" in the text before Ex 20:7 yet it is basic knowledge to all of us that this was in place even in Eden.
That again? Your argument begs the question and therefore a fallacy.
Too easy to miss this detail

"Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27 ... at the "making" of mankind, the Sabbath was made.

In Genesis 1-2

Yet clean vs unclean distinction details do not show up until Lev 11. Even though they needed to implement that distinction in Gen 7.
I’ve already answered this but you ignored it. Here let me repeat it. Maybe you can address it now.

Secondly, Gen 6-7 contains the 7 Noahic laws which included not eating the flesh of a live animal not about clean vs unclean.

Third, God had an opportunity to require the sabbath rest for Noah and his people but He did not make it part of the 7 laws. The 4th commandment was not given until Moses and the to Israel.
Your responses simply skim over details that show your solution does not work
No. Your replies are nothing but reading your pet doctrine into the texts and forming fallacious arguments. You can’t even look at the historical context because it blows your argument out of the water.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,820
5,438
On the bus to Heaven
✟171,309.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I though you had given up on that detail
Not me. I explained both the linguistic and historical context which you so far have totally ignored.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,719
12,091
Georgia
✟1,125,430.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Again, no verse that states that anyone before Moses kept the sabbath.
Again. No text says "do not take God's name in vain" prior to Ex 20:7
Impossible to refute as we all know
But this does not mean Adam was taking God's name in vain
And as I stated in my previous post and you avoided like the plague is the FACT that no one read Genesis or Exodus until Moses wrote them
True but you ignore the glaringly obvious fact that Moses writes Genesis through Deut for his readers who have access to all of it. So then the meaning for clean vs unclean is known to his readers who have BOTH Genesis AND Lev.

The fact that God is able to talk to Adam prior to Moses writing something down is not even questioned by most readers. Is this news to you?
Notice what? That seven day week has nothing to do with the 4th commandment.
wake up. A week is seven days. You see this before Genesis even before Exodus.

why do you tread the simple details as if they are so difficult?
There was a seven day week even before the 4th commandment
True and the commandments exist before Sinai as even Moses writes that Abraham kept God's commandments, laws and statutes.

You keep skimming over the simple details so they have be reposted. Why keep doing that?
was given by God to Moses. No one kept the sabbath before then.
fiction
Secondly, Gen 6-7 contains the 7 Noahic laws
Not one of which contain the command "do not take God's name in vain"
Not one of which tells us how to differentiate between a clean vs unclean animal. We do not see that detail until Lev 11
Yet clearly in Gen 6,7,8, they knew it.
which included not eating the flesh of a live animal not about clean vs unclean.
I think need to actually read the Genesis account before going too far out on that limb again.

Gen 7:. 2 You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; 3 also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth.

this just isn't that hard
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,820
5,438
On the bus to Heaven
✟171,309.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Again. No text says "do not take God's name in vain" prior to Ex 20:7
Impossible to refute as we all know
But this does not mean Adam was taking God's name in vain
Are you not understanding that the books of genesis and exodus were not written until the 15 century BCE? Can you prove that all of the wicked people that died during the flood did not take the name of God in vain?
True but you ignore the glaringly obvious fact that Moses writes Genesis through Deut for his readers who have access to all of it. So then the meaning for clean vs unclean is known to his readers who have BOTH Genesis AND Lev.
Since the book of Genesis was not written until Moses then only those after Moses had the clean vs unclean law and access to the books. Those before Moses did not have access that the books. The Noahic law only stated not to eat the flesh of a live animal and did not include the clean vs unclean law.
The fact that God is able to talk to Adam prior to Moses writing something down is not even questioned by most readers. Is this news to you?
So prove it. Give me a verse where anyone between Adam and Moses kept the sabbath.
wake up. A week is seven days. You see this before Genesis even before Exodus.
And? Another argument from silence?
why do you tread the simple details as if they are so difficult?
Because I actually use historical and linguistic context and you don’t.
True and the commandments exist before Sinai as even Moses writes that Abraham kept God's commandments, laws and statutes.
Which commandments did Abraham keep? Need a verse here.
You keep skimming over the simple details so they have be reposted. Why keep doing that?

fiction
So post a verse that shows that anyone prior to Moses kept the sabbath. You are so emphatic about this that it should be simple for you to prove it but not you have not so far.

Not one of which contain the command "do not take God's name in vain"
Not one of which tells us how to differentiate between a clean vs unclean animal. We do not see that detail until Lev 11
Yet clearly in Gen 6,7,8, they knew it.
Post the verse from Gen 6-8 that shows the commandment to not to take Gods name in vain.
I think need to actually read the Genesis account before going too far out on that limb again.

Gen 7:. 2 You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; 3 also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth.
And how does this prove that people before Moses kept the sabbath? In fact? I would venture to say that this is an addition for I the text by the scribes given the law. There was absolutely no proof that Noah had been given the clean and unclean law. Even the seven laws that God gave him to not include that.
this just isn't that hard
It sure isn’t. But when you inject bias into the text it does become much harder.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
4,833
407
88
Arcadia
✟270,544.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Considering Paul has a salvation warning 2Peter3:16 , I would caution anyone who is using Paul against the very Testimony of Jesus Himself Who said the Sabbath would not end at the Cross Mat24:20 or ever Isa66:22-23

There is more than one Sabbath in Scripture, one came before sin one after sin that had to do with food and drink and offerings the context of this passage. I have completed a Bible study on this that spells out the context hopefully some will take the time to prayerfully study before carelessly disregarding one of God’s own personally written and spoken commandments and His own Testimony Exo31:18 Isa8:20

First, we can't isolate Col 2:16 without looking at the immediate context if we truly want to understand what Paul is speaking about.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This verse sets up the following verses and gives us a lot more context.
Paul is giving us the context as to what he is speaking about
  1. handwritten
  2. against and contrary to us
1. Was the Sabbath commandment "handwritten" ?

Lets look at what the Bible says
Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

The had is what man uses to write with, on scrolls with ink. The finger is not the hand and no man could possible write with their finger on Stone, only God could do so, by design so man should not not to mess God’s commandments, not a jot or tittle because man is not God.


2. Is the Sabbath commandment against and contrary to us

Lets look at what Jesus said:
Mat 2:28 The Sabbath was made for man
The Sabbath was made for man, what God makes for man is not against us. The Sabbath is blessed and sanctified by God, its not the definition of contrary and against

Context doesn't fit

So looking at the immediate context shows clearly Paul is not speaking of the Sabbath commandment. Nor does Paul have the authority to change God's written and spoken Testimony Exo 31:18 the words of the covenant Exo 34:28 that God promised He would not alter Psa 89:34 they went from written on tables of stone to written on tablets of the heart 2 Cor 3:3 Heb 8:10 because God keeps His promises.

Right here is enough to know Paul is not referring to the Sabbath commandment, but lets keep going.

This is what Paul is quoting the law he is referring to is from

Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

2 Cor33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.” (Handwriting of ordiances the context)

The laws that were beside the ark of the Covenant handwritten by Moses, there as a witness against, the context of Col 2:14


But lets look at this verse closer

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
The Greek word for sabbath here is plural not singular. So its not speaking of "The" Sabbath day "The holy day of the Lord" as already seen in the context.

Paul is quoting Ezekiel all of the sacrifices and offerings.

Eze 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and theburnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

What was predicted would end when Jesus came?

Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

So this is not about any of the Ten Commandments but about the food and drink offerings, feast days that some were also annual sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses placed besides the ark of the covenant that came after the fall of man. The Sabbath started at Creation before sin Exo 20:11 so can't be a "shadow" of anything as it is part of God's perfect plan before sin took over and a need for a plan of salvation.

Why if you look at the next verse it clearly shows what it is referring to which works in perfect harmony with the context

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. (contrary and against)
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU DID NOT DESIRE, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME.
Heb 10:6 IN BURNT OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAD NO PLEASURE.
Heb 10:7 THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME—IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME—TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.' "
Heb 10:8 Previously saying, "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING, BURNT OFFERINGS, AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU DID NOT DESIRE, NOR HAD PLEASURE IN THEM" (which are offered according to the law),
Heb 10:9 then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

Exo 12:17 43 So the Lord said to Moses and Aaron: This is the ordinance of the Passover:
1Co 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.

I know this is a popular teaching, but the context does not fit the Sabbath commandment written by the finger of God that is part of God's holy and eternal law Mat 5:18-19 Isa 66:23
AND Anyone reading Heb 9:18 has to ADM,IT what Paul who wrote HEB. 9:18 IS TRUE and many I see reject it E

WHEN reading Heb 9:18. !!

Therefore. , not even the FIRST COVENANT was dedicated. Without BLOOD ( CHECK. EXO 24 ;3-8. IS . ONLY

the BLOOD OF ANIMAL and that is. why JESAUS death on a CROSS. and only the BLOOD OF CHRIST CAN

SAVED US ALL FROM SIN. !!

dan p
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
4,833
407
88
Arcadia
✟270,544.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Paul is not speaking of the weekly Sabbath as v14 clearly indicates- handwritten ordinances that were contrary and against. Col2:14KJV.

The Sabbath commandment is written by the finger of God Exo31:18 not handwritten in a book Deuteronomy 31:24-26 God called them one of His commandments Exo20:6 that God placed in a unit of Ten Deut4:13 if the Sabbath goes than the other 9 commandments go, breaking one we break them all James2:11 Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark2:27 so what God makes for man is not contrary and against. He said keeping it was to be a blessing Isa56:2 and a sign of His sanctification Eze20:12 and sign He is our God Eze20;20 and the Sabbath is to be a. Deligh Isa 58:13-14 is holy and blessed by God Himself. Those are the opposite of contrary and against because thats not what Paul is speaking of.

Why we need to be careful with Paul writing, he was the only one in the Bible that misunderstanding came with a salvation warning 2Peter3:16 especially when we are trying to make him teach against the Testimony of God Exo31:18 Isa8:20 and against Jesus own Testimony that the Sabbath would not end at the Cross Mat24:20 or ever Isa66:22-23
AND THE SABBATH. means the SABBATH. , PERIOD !!

dan p
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,776
5,868
USA
✟761,088.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
AND THE SABBATH. means the SABBATH. , PERIOD !!

dan p
There is the weekly Sabbath about worship Isa66:23 and honoring God Isa 58:13 Exo20:8-11 and the annual sabbaths that had to do with animal sacrifices- festivals, offerings etc. If they were all the same both would have started at Creation, only one did Exo20;11 and was part of God's perfect plan before sin entered, the others came after the fall, once man sinned. One was written by God, the other written by Moses, one was inside the ark of the covenant, the others were outside the ark.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
25,214
9,437
up there
✟395,919.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

linux.poet

act from love, not guilt
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
6,771
2,729
Poway
✟460,743.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been moved from General Theology to Sabbath and the Law.

MOD HAT OFF

 
Upvote 0

Akita Suggagaki

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
10,639
7,584
70
Midwest
✟388,053.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
How about the other Ten Commandments?

Exodus 34:

14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

17 Do not make cast idols.

18 Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

19 The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock.

21 Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

22 Celebrate the Feast of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year.

25 Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast,

25 and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Feast remain until morning.

26 Bring the best of the first fruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God.

27 Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,776
5,868
USA
✟761,088.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
How about the other Ten Commandments?

Exodus 34:

14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

17 Do not make cast idols.

18 Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

19 The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock.

21 Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

22 Celebrate the Feast of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year.

25 Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast,

25 and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Feast remain until morning.

26 Bring the best of the first fruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God.

27 Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.
Those are not the Ten Commandments, those are some of the law of Moses and some of the Ten Commandments. If you had quoted the whole passage, you would see there is much more than Ten. These are some laws that Moses wrote as shown in ver 27 and some the Ten Commandments that God wrote as shown by v28. They were reviewing both.

The Ten Commandments is Exo20:1-17 and repeated 40 years later in Deut 5. I am pretty sure you know this, its what your own church teaches, but believe as you wish, it doesn't change what the Ten Commandments of God are.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Akita Suggagaki

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
10,639
7,584
70
Midwest
✟388,053.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Those are not the Ten Commandments, those are some of the law of Moses and some of the Ten Commandments. If you had quoted the whole passage, you would see there is much more than Ten. These are some laws that Moses wrote as shown in ver 27 and some the Ten Commandments that God wrote as shown by v28. They were reviewing both.
What all went on the tablets besides? How much of the passage needed?
The very next verse
27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water.And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.

Were these ten not on the tablets?

But I certainly agreed these are not the traditional 10 we have come to revere. In fact most people are not aware of the list of Exodus 44:12-26.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,776
5,868
USA
✟761,088.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
What all went on the tablets besides? How much of the passage needed?
The very next verse
27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water.And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.

Were these ten not on the tablets?

But I certainly agreed these are not the traditional 10 we have come to revere. In fact most people are not aware of the list of Exodus 44:12-26.

The Ten Commandments Reviewed​

Deut 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your hearing today, that you may learn them and be careful to observe them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive. 4 The Lord talked with you face to face on the mountain from the midst of the fire. 5 I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up the mountain. He said:

6 ‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
7 ‘You shall have no other gods [b]before Me.
8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow[c] down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, [d]visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and [e]keep My commandments.
11 ‘You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him [f]guiltless who takes His name in vain.
12 ‘Observe the Sabbath day, to [g]keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
16 ‘Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
17 ‘You shall not murder.
18 ‘You shall not commit adultery.
19 ‘You shall not steal.
20 ‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
21 ‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.’
22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Which is taken from Exo20:1-17- God re-wrote the EXACT commandments on stone Deut 10:4 when Moses broke the first set, nothing more was added.

Moses wrote a different law on paper that was placed outside the ark of the covenant Deut31:24-28. Why Exo34:27 is speaking about the laws that Moses wrote that they were reviewing and Exo34:28 is speaking about the commandments God wrote, the Ten and no more were added Exo34:28 Deut5:22.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,719
12,091
Georgia
✟1,125,430.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
What all went on the tablets besides? How much of the passage needed?
The very next verse
27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water.And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.

Were these ten not on the tablets?

But I certainly agreed these are not the traditional 10 we have come to revere. In fact most people are not aware of the list of Exodus 44:12-26.
Exodus 20 has the Ten written on stone. Even Jews to this very day admit it and so also do most Christian denominations

Deut 5 refers back to them saying that "God spoke the Ten and added no more". Referring back to that Sinai event where God was speaking audibly directly to the people as the text says explicitly. Everyone agrees that Exodus 34 is God speaking to Moses but not shouting out to all the congregation as we see in chapter 20.

This is the easy part
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,719
12,091
Georgia
✟1,125,430.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Again, no verse that states that anyone before Moses kept the sabbath
No verse before EX 20 says "do not take God's name in vain"
Mark 2:27 Jesus speaks of the making of BOTH the Sabbath AND mankind in Gen 1-2
. And as I stated in my previous post and you avoided like the plague is the FACT that no one read Genesis or Exodus until Moses wrote them
Turns out God existed before Moses and God said Abraham "kept my commandments".

The only reason "creation WEEK" is a 7 day week is because of Gen 2:1-3 the SEVENTH day of that week that Ex 20:11 says was the actual SABBATH being made, blessed, sanctified.

Pretty hard to miss.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
37,820
5,438
On the bus to Heaven
✟171,309.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
No verse before EX 20 says "do not take God's name in vain"
Mark 2:27 Jesus speaks of the making of BOTH the Sabbath AND mankind in Gen 1-2
Not what I asked. And again you cannot prove that the wicked that died during Noah did not take Gods name in vain. Read verse 28. Jesus became the Lord of the Sabbath.
Turns out God existed before Moses and God said Abraham "kept my commandments".
What commandments? Show me the verse that contains the list of commandments before Moses? How about the 4th commandment, did anyone keep it before Moses?
The only reason "creation WEEK" is a 7 day week is because of Gen 2:1-3 the SEVENTH day of that week that Ex 20:11 says was the actual SABBATH being made, blessed, sanctified.
Nonsense. No one read Genesis or Exodus before the 15th century BCE.
Pretty hard to miss.
Only if you read it outside of historical context as you are doing.
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
10,311
3,458
✟1,033,459.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The helpful website, gotquestions.org, has over 10,000 answers to frequently asked Bible questions, such as this one: "Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?"

After briefly explaining some of the laws that were given to God's people, (Ten Commandments, civil, ceremonial) their website states, "None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today."

Do you see any problem with their answer?

While it is true that God does not expect believers today to follow the Old Testament laws regarding the sacrificial system, food and clothing rules, etc., it is unwise in my view to claim that the Ten Commandments are not "binding on Christians today."

After all, examine the New Testament instructions given to Christians in the words of Jesus, and the writings of Paul, Peter and James. While Scripture makes it clear that Christians "are not under law, but under grace," (Romans 6:14) followers of Christ are presented with many rules for holy living in the New Testament. And these godly instructions line up beautifully with the Ten Commandments.

Continued below.
smuggling in the 10 because we have overlapping values in the new testament is sloppy. Hebrews 8:13 says the OC has been made obsolete and there is a better way. if we accept this then why are we trying to superimposing OC law to instruct NC living?

my motivation is not to resit killing my neighbour which is the charge of the 10. instead Christ tells me to actively pursue love and that is infinity deeper as a moral foundation. let's not kid ourselves, this is not about how to value murdering, stealing, lying, etc... it's about how we value Sabbath law.

Sabbath law is ritual in nature and Christ has fulfilled it's requirement. instead of seeking a day to give us rest, we should be seeking Christ. we can't do both either, we can only seek rest through Christ and there is no other system that will give us this rest (The OC has been made obsolete so it can't do it even if we really really want it to). if we desire physical rest, sure the Sabbath can give us this but so can any other day. if we seek a spiritual discipline to slow down and fix our attention on God, the Sabbath can do this as well, but so can any other day. but if we seek spiritual rest the Sabbath or any other day cannot meet this need and it is only Christ.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
14,776
5,868
USA
✟761,088.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
It never ceases to amaze me that people think its okay to tell God He is wrong when His Sabbath is Exo20:10 and what its for Isa58:13 Isa 56:1-2, 6-7, Lev 23:3 Eze20:12 Eze20:20 and then tell Him its no longer required that we no longer need His blessings Isa56:2 or sanctification Eze20:12. Tell Him He fulfilled it so we can profane it, when Jesus never once said we could, He said we can still do evil (profane) the Sabbath Mark3:4 and never once said we no longer needed to keep the Sabbath commandment. Taking liberties that only God has to speak for Him and edit His own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18

God did make the old covenant obsolete but we should not forget He made a new covenant based on better promises Heb8:6 and now placed His laws in our hearts Heb8:10 if we don’t rebel against them Rom8:7-8 like those who came before us Eze20:16 we are told not to follow Heb4:11
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0