• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Ilhan Omar blasted over resurfaced comments on Somali influence in the US as Elon Musk suggests she committed treason

camille70

Newbie
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2007
4,081
3,930
Ohio
Visit site
✟746,036.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Magadonian, thats a new one lol.

This whole project 25 is just one of a number of false narratives that have been put out there. Also some of the ideas are quite commonsense. I don't know what all the conflation is about like its some sort of theocracy lol.

But the whole Project 25 has been busted as a myth and c onspiracy anyway.

There has been this false narrative about Trump for a decade now. He has never become the dictator the false narratives have claimed. Its all hyperbole and designed to create this us verse them politics. The big scarry monster who is going to take away our freedoms.

When in fact it was the otherway around from what they are finding with all the Lawfare, fraud and controlling of media and targeting conservatives and Christians. Gaslighting everyone over Biden and bypassing the democratic process in selection Harris ect. I mean they put forward Waltz which shows something was wrong with their selection or oversight.

I don't trust either as far as Christian belief and values. Luckily I don't have to vote in the US. But we do in Australia and we have a similar divide between Left and Right. If I have to vote out of two bad candidates I will tend to vote conservative as its closest to my beliefs. I cannot side with a party that supports abortion or other progressive ideas.

Otherwise I try and vote locally for a member who is closest to my beliefs. I actually did not vote for around 10 years. Then they found me lol.

Nah, I would say the same for anyone who uses such language. If you noticed I mentioned it was from the same school of thought as Critical Race theory and DEI. I know the language and its divisive and hateful. You may not recognise it.

But when people talk about white supremacy and bring up race in just about every answer. I know its identity politics. Pointing that out is not IP. Its highlighting it as obviously some don't see it as well until its identified.

I have not issues with immigrants, we are all immigrants to some extent. I trace back to African American slaves. I guess thats why I have an interest in US politics. But its similar to my nation generally. We are only 250 years young lol. We have had waves of immigrants to make our nation. But we also know that some who come don't like our western nations way of life and bring their own problems.

But its also the administration of integrating immigrants into the host culture rather than creating divisions. I see the whole immigration, illegal immigration and lack of integration as mess. Its associated with a lot of bad stuff that has cost a lot of people. The real culprits are those in charge who orchestrated this. Because it did not happen by accident. This was poor policiy and management.

Thats the true crime and moral wrong. That leaders who were suppose to do the right thing and set the example and look after the needy. Abused their position and allowed this to get to such a point that it costs so much financially and in human suffering.

For it to be a conspiracy, the number of items the Trump administration has completed is amazing.


People (sometimes) successfully fighting back against his dictator tendencies and actions to keep the balance of power and our government in check doesn't mean he's not trying to assume power not typically bestowed upon American presidents.

The democratic process was not bypassed to promote Harris. The DNC followed their policies to elect someone at the last minute. The DNC electors had people who submitted their intent to run with the required signatures and they were voted on. Not everyone voted for Harris via a virtual roll call. She was also not the only one with delegates, but the others did not have enough to win.

People were expecting a 50 state primary all over again. That's not what happens. There was also not time for it as deadlines had passed in all the states and my state of Ohio was threatening not to have the dem candidate on the ballot at all if not submitted by a certain date. They were unwilling to provide exceptions granted to candidates in the past, including GOP candidates.

See Adoption of early virtual nomination vote here.


The GOP would have had to do something similar had they lost their nominee at the last minute.

People do not need to abandon their entire culture to assimilate. The cultures of other melding into what is America is what makes us rich as a nation. No one is asking Jews to abandon their ceremonies. We have little Chinatowns all over this country. Little Cubas. Little Italies. Mormons. Amish. Native Americans. People who keep traditions alive. We are all the better for it.
 
Upvote 0

A2SG

Gumby
Jun 17, 2008
10,258
4,080
Massachusetts
✟186,000.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
]The GOP would have had to do something similar had they lost their nominee at the last minute.
Let's not forget 1974, when a Republican became President without ever once facing voters in a national election.

-- A2SG, anyone remember that guy...other than Chevy Chase?
 
  • Like
Reactions: camille70
Upvote 0

stevevw

inquisitive
Nov 4, 2013
17,085
1,996
Brisbane Qld Australia
✟337,805.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Being against/opposing white supremacy is not the same as being against/opposing white people. Many white people have and continue to fight against white supremacy and racism.
When the words are thrown around so readily its more than just stopping something.
 
Upvote 0

stevevw

inquisitive
Nov 4, 2013
17,085
1,996
Brisbane Qld Australia
✟337,805.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
For it to be a conspiracy, the number of items the Trump administration has completed is amazing.


People (sometimes) successfully fighting back against his dictator tendencies and actions to keep the balance of power and our government in check doesn't mean he's not trying to assume power not typically bestowed upon American presidents.
For all the complaints I don't see the US in some dictatorship. Some of the ideas like anti abortion and Trans is not Project 25. Especially Trans ideology as this was dividing society and denying long held womens rights. BUt nothing bad is happening. Yet we had actual bad stuff happen under Biden and no one is complaining about that.
The democratic process was not bypassed to promote Harris. The DNC followed their policies to elect someone at the last minute. The DNC electors had people who submitted their intent to run with the required signatures and they were voted on. Not everyone voted for Harris via a virtual roll call. She was also not the only one with delegates, but the others did not have enough to win.
People were expecting a 50 state primary all over again. That's not what happens. There was also not time for it as deadlines had passed in all the states and my state of Ohio was threatening not to have the dem candidate on the ballot at all if not submitted by a certain date. They were unwilling to provide exceptions granted to candidates in the past, including GOP candidates.

See Adoption of early virtual nomination vote here.


The GOP would have had to do something similar had they lost their nominee at the last minute.
Ok well I see differering opinion on this

Democratic Party’s choice of Harris was undemocratic − and the latest evidence of party leaders distrusting party voters

But there would not have been a rush if the had admitted Bidens health instead of gas lighting the nation. Thats was all part of the undemocratic way in which they operated.
People do not need to abandon their entire culture to assimilate.
No but they need to become Americans and part of that culture and not be dividing the nation with anti western and American ideas. The current trend of the Left is towards socialism and cultural Marxism. The ideas and policies are clear.
The cultures of other melding into what is America is what makes us rich as a nation. No one is asking Jews to abandon their ceremonies. We have little Chinatowns all over this country. Little Cubas. Little Italies. Mormons. Amish. Native Americans. People who keep traditions alive. We are all the better for it.
Yes thats how it has always been. But not now. We never had such instablity as now with all the culture wars. THis was brought on by radical Left ideas of white America verses the other with all the language and narratives pushed. This is now admitted fact.

Nevermind project 25. The reality of the mess Left by the last administration is clear and needs to be corrected. Thats not any deviate plan but a reaction (perhaps overly so in some cases) to bad policies and radical ideology that has destroying the US.

Theres a massive difference between regulated immigration that is integrated and flooding a nation with an open border and unvetted illegals who are not causing economic and social chaos. That was actively pushed as part of policiy.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Valletta
Upvote 0

JSRG

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2019
2,411
1,551
Midwest
✟242,757.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
For it to be a conspiracy, the number of items the Trump administration has completed is amazing.


I wouldn't call the claims about Project 2025 a "conspiracy" exactly, but a bunch of people definitely did exaggerate what it said or just plain made claims that weren't even true when trying to attack Trump with it. One can find more commonality between Trump's policies and Project 2025 when one is comparing the actual content of Project 2025 rather than the exaggerations.

However, the idea that Project 2025 (actual Project 2025 or exaggerated version) was some kind of secret blueprint for Trump has problems with it. Project 2025 was a manifesto by a Republican-aligned group (the Heritage Foundation) and Trump, guess what, is a Republican. One can find a bunch of commonality between the Green Party platform and stuff Biden did, it doesn't mean Biden was following the ideas of the Green Party, it just means that because they're both liberals you're going to find some crossover.

As is well explained here (this was from much earlier this year, but the general points still hold up), footnotes omitted:

...many point out that Project 2025 suggested things that President de facto Trump later commanded through executive order—often using language that closely echoes language from Project 2025—so we are already living in a Project 2025 regime (and it sucks!). Hence Politico’s “37 ways Project 2025 has shown up in Trump’s executive orders.” These articles are used to vindicate last year’s conspiracy theory that, despite Donald Trump’s repeated repudiation of Project 2025, Project 2025 was nevertheless the secret blueprint of his administration. (I wrote about these and other P2025-related conspiracy theories last year.) Yet the presumption of all these articles is that, if Project 2025 suggested doing something and Trump subsequently did it, Project 2025 must be where the idea originated. That’s not remotely the case.

In fact, for some ideas, it’s exactly the opposite: the first Trump Administration had an idea, then Project 2025 adopted it into their framework! Even though Trump later did these things, he obviously didn’t get the idea from Project 2025. In most cases (like DEI rollbacks), he actively ran on these ideas, and the American people voted for it.

For many ideas, Trump and Project 2025 were both drawing on long-standing conservative commitments. For example, it is true, as Politico alleges in a scandalized tone, that Project 2025 recommended Trump impose the Mexico City Policy to block U.S. subsidies for international abortion providers… and Trump did! However, it’s perfectly obvious Trump didn’t do it because Project 2025 suggested it; he also imposed the Mexico City Policy at the start of his first term… and so has every other incoming Republican president since Ronald Reagan. This is just something Republican presidents do. Treating this as proof that Donald Trump is secretly following Project 2025 is just as silly as treating it as proof that George H.W. Bush was secretly following Project 2025 more than thirty years before Project 2025 was written!

This gives us a fairly simple heuristic you can use to see whether it’s even plausible that Trump got one of his ideas from Project 2025:

  1. Did he do it in his last term, before Project 2025 existed? If yes, then it obviously didn’t come from Project 2025.
  2. Did he actively campaign on it in 2024, the same campaign where he repudiated Project 2025? If yes, then it obviously wasn’t a secret he foisted on an unsuspecting public, and he probably didn’t get the idea from Project 2025 at all!
When you go through the 37 executive orders Politico cites as “evidence” that Trump was lying on the campaign trail, this simple heuristic eliminates 35 of them.

What’s left? What Trump policy proposals may have actually originated from Project 2025? Spicy stuff, believe you me:

  • Closing the OFCCP (Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs)
    • I doubt President Trump knew then, nor knows now, what OFCCP is. It’s an anti-discrimination enforcement office, so it was in trouble no matter what, but it’s plausible that the idea to close it came from P2025.
  • Shifting FEMA burdens to the states, with FEMA playing only a support role
    • Note that Trump already hated FEMA, and it’s easy to imagine Trump asking the office, “Hey, how can I crush FEMA under my heel,” and a P2025 staffer saying, “You know, I wrote down some ideas about that.”
I did always say that, since Project 2025 is very much a part of the (very small) conservative policy wonk world, it was inevitable that Project 2025 would have some influence in the Trump White House, as one faction among many. These data points seem to bear that out.

The democratic process was not bypassed to promote Harris. The DNC followed their policies to elect someone at the last minute. The DNC electors had people who submitted their intent to run with the required signatures and they were voted on. Not everyone voted for Harris via a virtual roll call. She was also not the only one with delegates, but the others did not have enough to win.

People were expecting a 50 state primary all over again. That's not what happens. There was also not time for it as deadlines had passed in all the states and my state of Ohio was threatening not to have the dem candidate on the ballot at all if not submitted by a certain date. They were unwilling to provide exceptions granted to candidates in the past, including GOP candidates.

See Adoption of early virtual nomination vote here.


The GOP would have had to do something similar had they lost their nominee at the last minute.
The Democratic process (or, at least, the primary process) was bypassed to promote Harris. It might have been unavoidable to not bypass at that point (there was absolutely no time to do primaries), but it was still bypassed.

I do think that, with the hand the Democrats were dealt with Biden dropping out, quickly rallying around Harris was the decision that made the most sense. There was no time for a primary, they didn't want the convention to get taken over by arguments over who the delegates should vote for (especially because the convention wasn't planned to be a contested convention), and it made the most sense to rally around the person who was the Vice President. In hindsight we can see that didn't work out, so maybe it would've been better to do it differently... but with the information available at the time, and the situation they were in, I think quickly rallying around Harris was the best decision.


Of course, while I said "it might have been unavoidable to not bypass at that point" we should put emphasis on the words "at that point". Because if Biden hadn't run for re-election, they could've had a real primary (they technically had a primary but as is normal for a sitting President, Biden was so strongly favored they might as well not have). I can definitely see frustration for being told endlessly "Biden's actually totally fine, ignore all claims that he isn't! No need for any real primary!" only to then later on be told "okay, Biden actually isn't in that great of a shape, but there's no time for a primary now, so it's Harris whether you like it or not."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Valletta
Upvote 0