2 Canons of the bible

There are 2 canons of the bible.

Luke 24:44-53 He said to them, “Remember when I was with you before? I said that everything written about me must happen—everything in the law of Moses, the books of the prophets, and the Psalms.” Then Jesus opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

Law Psalms Prophets - this canon list excludes 1 Enoch, and other OT texts (Jubilees, Test of the 12 patriarchs, Tobit, 1/2 Maccabees, and others). Josephus gave the same canon list around 100 AD, and it was Genesis to Malachi organized into around 24 books. This is the primary canon.
Josephus: Historical Evidence of the Old Testament Canon

Jesus also referenced 1 Enoch, and called it scripture

Jesus talking to the Sadducees who asked about resurrection.

Mathew 22 29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

1 Enoch 15. God talking to the angels that left heaven, came down to earth, and bred with woman.

But you originally existed as spirits, living forever,
and not dying for all the generations of eternity;
7 therefore I did not make women among you.’
The spirits of heaven, in heaven is their dwelling;

Jesus tells the people he is talking to they do not know scripture and then proceeds to cite 1 Enoch about how God did not make women for the angels in heaven so he is calling 1 Enoch "scripture", and believed it was written before the flood by Enoch 7th from Adam like it says it was.

So Jesus has 1 Enoch in his canon there, and same with Jude with the "Enoch 7th from Adam prophesied" quote. This is the secondary "hidden" canon. Apocrypha means hidden, and Jesus said

Mathew 11
25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

Some Christians refer to 1 Enoch or any other text outside the primary (protestant) canon as apocrypha, and for them it means myth / pseudepigrapha . God has hidden those texts from them possibly due to

Romans 1:22
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

and

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, “He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness.”

Yes the secondary canon is hidden but hidden does not mean myth/ pseudepigrapha it just means it is for people that choose to believe the bible wherever it may lead otherwise maybe God thought it would be throwing pearl before swine to reference it in very obvious ways.

This concept of 2 canons in the NT goes back to 2 Esdras (internal date 557-457 BC consistent with 1 Ezra, and same genealogies as 1 Ezra which go back to Aaron son of Levi) where Ezra, and some others rewrite the bible because it was destroyed by the Babylonians

2 Esdras 14
44 So in forty days, ninety-four books were written. 45 It came to pass, when the forty days were fulfilled, that the Most High spoke to me, saying, “The first books that you have written, publish openly, and let the worthy and unworthy read them; 46but keep the last seventy,that you may deliver them to those who are wise among your people; 47 for in them is the spring of understanding, the fountain of wisdom, and the stream of knowledge.” 48 I did so.

The 24 was for the worthy, and unworthy aka everyone- this would of been the now protestant canon from Genesis to Ezra (Malachi, and Nehemiah may not of been written at that time as they came a bit later on in the 400s BC), and the other 70 was 1 Enoch, Jubilees, Test of the 12, Life of Adam, and Eve, Assumption of Moses, Testament of Job, Tobit, Baruch, other ones that still exist today, and some others that would be lost works today. For the NT it would be proto James, pseudo Mathew, gospel of Nicodemus, Didache, History of Joseph the carpenter, and some others. The expanded canon is only for the wise.

2, and 3 Enoch, and book of Jasher are all myths not inspired written after 70 AD (inspired scripture stopped 70 AD based on Daniel 9). 3 Enoch, and Jasher are Jewish fables (1 Titus 14), and 2 Enoch is either Jewish or Samaritan fables.

Jasher says Shem is Melchizadek like the Talmud does in an attempt to discredit Jesus from being a priest in the order of Melchizadek. 2 Enoch mentions the 532 year great cycle which was not discovered until 400s AD. 3 Enoch says It was written by 'rabbi' Ishmael which the Talmud says was 130 AD however the synagogue of satan actually believe it is pseudepigrapha written much later.

Love Fountain said:

Hello samaus123456789,

Jesus confirmed the order of the Hebrew Scriptures in the three sections of the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms(writings) that today is known as the Hebrew Bible or Hebrew Canon. It was ordered and arranged by God. God didn't leave anything out, He arranged exactly how He wants it, then man changed the order and has tried adding books written by men ever since beginning with what is known today as the Septuagint.

Why did you change the order that Jesus confirmed as the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms as Scripture?

Just like the disordering done in Alexandria, Egypt putting Psalms ahead of some of the Prophets bringing disorder to what God arranged and then trying to insert books written by men into the mix.



No, that is not true or correct, Jesus didn't ever refer to 1 Enoch as Scripture and 1 Enoch is not in His canon and is not Scripture.

The Sadducees in Matthew 22:24 quoted Deuteronomy 25:5 applying it in error and that is what Jesus referred and replied to in Matthew 22:29 telling them they err and didn't know Scriptures they were quoting from Deuteronomy incorrectly.

In Matthew 22:32 Jesus went on to quote Exodus 3:6 in his further response to them applying false doctrine to their misuse of Deuteronomy 25:5 and corrected them by referring to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all still being alive with God because God is not the God of the dead, He is the God of the living!

In your pursuit to falsely establish 1 Enoch to anything other than words of men you too make a similar error of incorrectly applying Jesus to quoting something He never quoted or even hinted at as being Scripture!







No again, complete nonsense and false doctrine that has been used to deceive people! Jude didn't quote a writing by Enoch. Lol

It is written

Jude 14-15
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam prophesied of these, SAYING, "Behold the LORD cometh with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgement upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

It is written what is quoted of Enoch is what he SAID not what he wrote, nice try though!

The word of God was passed down verbally at that time, not written and certainly Jude didn't quote a false uninspired written document called 1 Enoch written by men. You do err in believing this nonsense!

1 Enoch is not written like all the other biblical texts at all because it's not inspired or written by God!

Here is the correct order of the Hebrew Texts and what belongs as God ordered them in the following link and there's no other texts that belong.

Correct order of the Hebrew texts link

Blessings,
Love Fountain

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Everything I said is right. Jesus was referencing 1 Enoch, and other standard OT texts. The Sadducees mess up a story from Tobit about the woman with 7/8 husbands. If you believe 1 Enoch is not inspired then it is not for you. These other books are only for the wise.

David Lamb said:

But 1 Enoch is not a "standard OT text." And the fact that the Sadducees told Jesus a story which had similarities with one in Tobit doesn't mean that Tobit is part of God's word.

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I meant to say 1 Enoch + protestant canon texts. Yes Tobit is inspired scripture also like 1 Enoch is inspired scripture. I don't accuse ancient men of God who authored books full of prophecies of Jesus of lying.

David Lamb said:

Tobit is in the Apocrypha. 1 Enoch, as far as I am aware, isn't even included in bibles like Roman Catholic ones which include the Apocrypha.

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Yes both are inspired scripture written when they said they were regardless of what labels someone slaps on them.

David Lamb said:

You have a different understanding of inspired Scripture to me, and I imagine the vast majority of Christians.

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Yes I go where the bible leads even if it is outside man made no go zones. Like how Jesus, and Jude believed Enoch was inspired scripture written pre flood.

David Lamb said:

I tend to agree with what Christian commentators have writen about that verses from Jude, like this from John Gill's commentary:

"that Enoch wrote a prophecy, and left it behind him in writing, does not appear from hence, or elsewhere; the Jews, in some of their writings, do cite and make mention of the book of Enoch; and there is a fragment now which bears his name, but is a spurious piece, and has nothing like this prophecy in it; wherefore Jude took this not from a book called the "Apocalypse of Enoch," but from tradition; this prophecy being handed down from age to age; and was in full credit with the Jews, and therefore the apostle very appropriately produces it; or rather he had it by divine inspiration."

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Yeh coz it was impossible he had read Enoch in the first century because it does not exist in the dead sea scrolls from BC times. In fact it does not exist today. It is all a hallucination. Nothing is real. Enoch is for the wise not for swine.

David Lamb said:

Do you have biblical evidence for the book of Enoch being only for those who are wise? If, as you say, it is a hallucination anyway, how can it be the inspired word of God?

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You are right, and I am wrong. You are the expert not me. You have wasted my time before on my Enoch threads. I will not allow my time to be wasted anymore.