Trump’s team sees Europe’s ‘erasure.’

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-11T13:31:45-0600

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
With the exception of roughly 10%–15% of American or European liberals, support for unrestricted migration is rare. Your assertion presents a misleading narrative, though you are entitled to your opinion.

Personally, I welcome immigrants from all regions of the world and support providing a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants who have lived in the USA for many years. I have voted for several Republican presidents who held these views; one president I supported twice referred to himself as a "compassionate conservative." Anyone who claims that compassionate conservative George W. Bush is "woke" is entirely mistaken.

Just because you disagree with these policies does not make them "woke."

George W. Bush was an educated man, I've seen his summer home in Maine, and no doubt, he attended the most pristine universities in the country. Also, no doubt, he was subjected to the ideologies that were the precursors to modern wokism, without even knowing it at the time.

...I don't blame him though. The ideologies have since furthered to the point of radicalism, but yes, he participated unknowingly to it's early stages, which were known as "globalism", and "social justice" - terms no longer in popular use today, as they have come to fruition, and are now just aspects of "modern liberalism".

7thKeeper · 2025-12-11T13:42:51-0600

Landon Caeli said:
When you ask me to break down which countries I'm talking about specifically, that means I'll be restricted to talking about "policy", per government, and not the changing sentiments of the Euroean people's.

No, it's asking for details. Because by refusing to talk specifics, you can remain suitably vague in assertions and not have to back them up with anything concrete or with data. Let's see how this goes!

Landon Caeli said:
There's no way I'd be willing to baracade myself into a narrow conversation like that. Especially not when people are the ones who change policy over time.

Not looking good so far...

Landon Caeli said:
We can see how wokism, amongst the people, have already changed the face of the democratic party, here in the United States, in the most drastic of ways.

Instead, I would prefer to focus on the root of all political change within a democratic society, which is the people themselves. I'm sure we can all see in our countries how opinions have evolved, and how politics follows. I'm sure we can all see how we're now communicating across the Atlantic.

Still really vague.

Landon Caeli said:
...So we should all be paying close attention, and if people from across the Atlantic are forming political alliances with people here in the U.S., this should be noted, and understood.

Lots of words for not saying anything really.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-11T13:45:45-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
What data are you working from? I repeat part of my question, if you have data for the changing sentiments of the people of the different countries, we can discuss that. What are you referring to specifically? What do you believe is going to be figured out, and in which countries?

I don't debate that way. I am aware that there are deceptive purposes in asking questions instead of proposing counter arguments, in a debate.

Those reasons are:

1) To see if the person can answer?
2) To prove that the person cannot answer.

...I'm not playing that game. I am only into arguments and counter arguments.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-11T13:47:01-0600

7thKeeper said:
No, it's asking for details. Because by refusing to talk specifics, you can remain suitably vague in assertions and not have to back them up with anything concrete or with data. Let's see how this goes!

Not looking good so far...

Still really vague.

Lots of words for not saying anything really.

Like I said, I offer arguments, and respond to counter arguments only. This is standard debate format.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-11T14:00:00-0600

Landon Caeli said:
And this is why Trump is the president. I don't know what you think is going to happen, with this modern academic ideology of wokism, but it's going to cause a lot of trouble when you celebrate the erasure of a culture.

It is *not* nice, and I'm sure a large swath of European sentiment will be supporive of your position, so I'm not surprised by your vote in this thread.

I recognize that President Trump secured victories in both terms largely due to his stance on immigration. Many individuals on the right, and even some on the left, back him because of these policies. However, winning two elections with this approach does not necessarily mean the policy is correct; it simply shows that there are people who support a policy that may be misguided.

There is no culture in the world that remains unchanged; all cultures evolve over time. European culture in the 21st century differs from what it was in the 19th century, just as 19th-century European culture was different from that of the 15th or 9th centuries. Culture is always changing. Anyone who believes a particular culture can be preserved unchanged does not understand how anthropology works.

European culture stands to benefit from the diversity it is fostering. Every culture worldwide possesses unique values that contribute to the advancement of human society. Those who believe European culture is inherently superior to others may not fully appreciate the importance of collective understanding within our global community.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-11T14:16:54-0600

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
I recognize that President Trump secured victories in both terms largely due to his stance on immigration. Many individuals on the right, and even some on the left, back him because of these policies. However, winning two elections with this approach does not necessarily mean the policy is correct; it simply shows that there are people who support a policy that may be misguided.

There is no culture in the world that remains unchanged; all cultures evolve over time. European culture in the 21st century differs from what it was in the 19th century, just as 19th-century European culture was different from that of the 15th or 9th centuries. Culture is always changing. Anyone who believes a particular culture can be preserved unchanged does not understand how anthropology works.

European culture stands to benefit from the diversity it is fostering. Every culture worldwide possesses unique values that contribute to the advancement of human society. Those who believe European culture is inherently superior to others may not fully appreciate the importance of collective understanding within our global community.

I disagree that "every culture" contributes to the advancement of human society. I think, more reasonably, enlightened people, from any culture contribute in that way... Specifically. This is a worthwhile dichotomy in how we should view immigration. For example, the Trump approach, which seeks to invite people who are masters in their field, even though, it does have a high price tag, it still supports the idea of attracting more enlightened individuals. Nobody seems to appreciate this effort by the president for some reason - instead, they seem to not grasp the difference between the types of immigrants that actually do make the country better.

I cannot think of any reason why this approach should be considered "wrong" or "immoral", unless that description is being applied by those who tout a kind of toxic empathy, rooted in radical wokism somewhere within its current state or previous timelines.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-11T14:24:08-0600

To add fire to the flames regarding European interference, they want to fine a truly enlightened immigrant, Elon Musk, who has actually done a lot for our country.

7thKeeper · 2025-12-11T14:28:15-0600

Landon Caeli said:
Like I said, I offer arguments, and respond to counter arguments only. This is standard debate format.

No, it is not. An arguement is only such if you can back it up with something concrete. You've already made claims here that, even on the face of it , seem made up and when pressed for sources or details on what you mean, you refuse to elaborate. Making what you are saying seem like just a bunch of generic and meaningless opinion with no relation to reality.

7thKeeper · 2025-12-11T14:30:59-0600

Landon Caeli said:
To add fire to the flames regarding European interference, they want to fine a truly enlightened immigrant, Elon Musk, who has actually done a lot for our country.

Well this "enlightened" (?) individuals company has failed to abide by relevant regulations and therefore was fined.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-11T14:37:42-0600

7thKeeper said:
Well this "enlightened" (?) individuals company has failed to abide by relevant regulations and therefore was fined.

Then why didn't they fine Twitter? The DSA hasn't changed any rules. Instead, they target a great American immigrant, who purchased an existing platform.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-11T15:02:03-0600

Landon Caeli said:
George W. Bush was an educated man, I've seen his summer home in Maine, and no doubt, he attended the most pristine universities in the country. Also, no doubt, he was subjected to the ideologies that were the precursors to modern wokism, without even knowing it at the time.

...I don't blame him though. The ideologies have since furthered to the point of radicalism, but yes, he participated unknowingly to it's early stages, which were known as "globalism", and "social justice" - terms no longer in popular use today, as they have come to fruition, and are now just aspects of "modern liberalism".

It appears that you label those with whom you disagree as "wokesim." This may explain why I have never fully understood what "woke" means—either from its proponents or its critics.

I voted for President Reagan, as well as for George W. Bush both times he ran, but my foreign policy beliefs are more in line with Reagan’s approach than Bush’s. I do not support Bush’s vision of promoting democracy in the Middle East. However, I share both Reagan and Bush’s stance on immigration, globalism, free trade, multiculturalism and capitalism. If that makes you consider me “woke,” I am happy to accept that label proudly.

Oh, I also salute anyone who has enrolled in and graduated from the most prestigious universities. You might call them "woke" or whatever you prefer; my only regret is that I couldn’t graduate from such a renowned university as Clinton, Bush or Obama did.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-11T15:06:20-0600

Landon Caeli said:
I disagree that "every culture" contributes to the advancement of human society. I think, more reasonably, enlightened people, from any culture contribute in that way... Specifically. This is a worthwhile dichotomy in how we should view immigration. For example, the Trump approach, which seeks to invite people who are masters in their field, even though, it does have a high price tag, it still supports the idea of attracting more enlightened individuals. Nobody seems to appreciate this effort by the president for some reason - instead, they seem to not grasp the difference between the types of immigrants that actually do make the country better.

I cannot think of any reason why this approach should be considered "wrong" or "immoral", unless that description is being applied by those who tout a kind of toxic empathy, rooted in radical wokism somewhere within its current state or previous timelines.

Setting aside morality and considering practicality, if the USA only accepted highly educated experts and not unskilled laborers, there would be no one to pick tomatoes or pack meat. These jobs are just as essential as those in biotech.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-11T15:16:35-0600

Landon Caeli said:
To add fire to the flames regarding European interference, they want to fine a truly enlightened immigrant, Elon Musk, who has actually done a lot for our country.

Elon Musk was provided sufficient opportunity to align Twitter's operations with EU digital policy. However, he declined to comply with the requirements set forth by the European Union.

I really don’t see why you think it is a punishment when Musk refuse to operate in EU according to their policy.

7thKeeper · 2025-12-11T15:20:05-0600

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
Setting aside morality and considering practicality, if the USA only accepted highly educated experts and not unskilled laborers, there would be no one to pick tomatoes or pack meat. These jobs are just as essential as those in biotech.

I've heard this one around here a few times in the various places I've worked at.

"Who's the most important person in the building? The janitor. Without them, everything literally goes to sh*t."

7thKeeper · 2025-12-11T15:32:48-0600

Landon Caeli said:
Then why didn't they fine Twitter? The DSA hasn't changed any rules. Instead, they target a great American immigrant, who purchased an existing platform.

... You do realise if you'd bothered to actually read the reasons behind the fine, you'd know the answer to that? We've posted them in this very thread, go read them. Twitter wasn't fined, because they abided by those regulations. And more importantly, because time is linear and DSA came into force about a month (iirc) after Musk bought Twitter.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-11T15:50:38-0600

7thKeeper said:
I've heard this one around here a few times in the various places I've worked at.

"Who's the most important person in the building? The janitor. Without them, everything literally goes to sh*t."

Based on my experience debating with people who are against immigration, there doesn’t seem to be a consistent reason for their opposition. At first, they object to undocumented immigrants and open borders but claim to support legal immigration. If you agree with them, they then specify what kind of legal immigration they endorse, typically favoring educated and skilled immigrants over those who are unskilled. When you accept that, they narrow it further by expressing a preference for skilled immigrants from certain regions, not others. If you agree again, they often bring up religious or ethnic preferences. In other words, they end up opposing all types of immigration.

7thKeeper · 2025-12-11T15:54:31-0600

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
Based on my experience debating with people who are against immigration, there doesn’t seem to be a consistent reason for their opposition. At first, they object to undocumented immigrants and open borders but claim to support legal immigration. If you agree with them, they then specify what kind of legal immigration they endorse, typically favoring educated and skilled immigrants over those who are unskilled. When you accept that, they narrow it further by expressing a preference for skilled immigrants from certain regions, not others. If you agree again, they often bring up religious or ethnic preferences. In other words, they end up opposing all types of immigration.

Sort of reminds me of this Family Guy clip. No worries everyone, there's no profanity nor anything like that in this clip.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-11T16:52:08-0600

Wow, this thread has become incredibly boring all of a sudden.

Gene2memE · 2025-12-11T23:18:59-0600

There are bad takes.
There are wrong takes.
There are bizarre takes.
And then there is this.

Landon Caeli said:
A lot of people have been saying that Russia has been trying for years to get good with the West. Word is, they started this Ukraine war out of anxiety from being excluded.

7thKeeper · 2025-12-11T23:40:03-0600

Landon Caeli said:
Wow, this thread has become incredibly boring all of a sudden.

So sorry for you. But hey, there are some interesting topics in this thread. Maybe you can start by answering this:

7thKeeper said:
... You do realise if you'd bothered to actually read the reasons behind the fine, you'd know the answer to that? We've posted them in this very thread, go read them. Twitter wasn't fined, because they abided by those regulations. And more importantly, because time is linear and DSA came into force about a month (iirc) after Musk bought Twitter.

Because I personally am REALLY interested in finding out how exactly did you think Twitter would be fined by legislation that didn't come into force until after Musk bought it and when the fines are about things that also changed after the platform became X? The blue checkmark thing for example. So... If you start talking about the fines, perhaps read what they are about first?

Trump’s team sees Europe’s ‘erasure.’

Should the EU stay together?

Yes, absolutely, because the whole entire world benefits from a united Europe

No

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