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Skipping 'The Skipper' Sanctions: A blatant theft? And, an international act of piracy??

Factotum

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The Skipper. That is the name of the sanctioned, Venezuelan oil tanker which the US Coast Guard seized yesterday.

Pam Bondi feels like it was headed to Iran, to help perfect their terrorism against USA interests.
Do you think this was legal, or it was blatant theft by the Trump DoD? And, an international act of piracy??

The Venezuelen GOVT feels it was those things, if you go by the report from an NBC News affiliate:
 
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DaisyDay

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The Skipper. That is the name of the sanctioned, Venezuelan oil tanker which the US Coast Guard seized yesterday.

Pam Bondi feels like it was headed to Iran, to help perfect their terrorism against USA interests.
Do you think this was legal, or it was blatant theft by the Trump DoD? And, an international act of piracy??

The Venezuelen GOVT feels it was those things, if you go by the report from an NBC News affiliate:
I hope it was a lot more than just a "feeling", but I really don't have much faith in this administration's respect for law - particularly international law.
 
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Factotum

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I hope it was a lot more than just a "feeling"
That word was my own choice to use. As her feelings had to be made into a verbal decree and then a signed doctrine, in order for the DoD to decide to Act within the confines of the law.

Maybe your faith might change too, if you learn that the Coast Guard seized the tanker legally under anti-Terrorrism laws.
 
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Yttrium

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...the Coast Guard seized the tanker legally under anti-Terrorrism laws.
Sure, let's go with that. It's not like the US has any credibility left to lose at this point, and it's not going to go anywhere in the courts.
 
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Richard T

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I don't have a problem with taking an unregistered ship in international water. Let the owners/insurers sue in international court the legality of the ship and cargo. I I am not sure if rank and file crew members would know about the fake registration. Some are assigned from agencies, that recruit from owners/operators. I am glad that the U.S. military handled this without any loss of life on either side, that Trump got a warrant and given the value of the cargo, I think that the legalities can be worked out later.

From google ai:
Who can justify the taking of a ship that is flying under a false flag? Anyone?




"Yes, a warship or authorized government vessel from any state can legally stop, board, and potentially seize a ship on the high seas that is flying a false flag.

Under international maritime law, specifically Article 92 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), a ship must sail under the flag of only one State. If a ship sails under two or more flags according to convenience, or under a false flag (without the authorization of that country), it may be treated as a stateless vessel.

Stateless vessels are not entitled to the protection or the exclusive jurisdiction of any flag state. This means that the principle of freedom of navigation, which generally prevents interference by other nations on the high seas, does not apply.

Article 110 of UNCLOS explicitly grants any warship the right to board a merchant ship on the high seas if there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that:

  • The ship is engaged in piracy or the slave trade.
  • The ship is involved in unauthorized broadcasting.
  • The ship is, in reality, of the same nationality as the warship, despite flying a foreign flag.
  • The ship is without nationality (stateless).
The recent seizure of the oil tanker Skipper by the U.S. demonstrates this principle. The U.S. government justified the seizure by pointing out that the vessel was falsely flying the flag of Guyana, a fact confirmed by the Guyanese Maritime Administration. Additionally, the U.S. had a federal judicial warrant to seize the vessel due to its alleged involvement in an illicit "dark fleet" oil trafficking network that violated sanctions against Venezuela and Iran, which further solidifies the legal basis for the action.

In summary, any state with the capability and reasonable grounds for suspicion can act against a ship using a false flag, as it is considered a matter of enforcing public order and security on the high seas."

Interestingly, neither the USA or Venezuela are signatories of this nearly universal law. Google ai still justifies it by "customary law."

It is also interesting that "Overall "Dark Fleet" Percentage: The "dark" or "shadow" fleet (vessels with obscured ownership and operations, often using deceptive practices like false flags) now accounts for an estimated 10% to 17% of all global seaborne oil transportation."
There should be more done about false flag ships. I hope they do not get their oil or their ship back unless they have a good legal reason. In those ships that cut the underwater cables, some officers are charged with crimes. Typically the ships were returned though.
 
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Factotum

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I don't have a problem with taking an unregistered ship in international water. Let the owners/insurers sue in international court the legality of the ship and cargo. I I am not sure if rank and file crew members would know about the fake registration. Some are assigned from agencies, that recruit from owners/operators. I am glad that the U.S. military handled this without any loss of life on either side, that Trump got a warrant and given the value of the cargo, I think that the legalities can be worked out later.

From google ai:
Who can justify the taking of a ship that is flying under a false flag? Anyone?




"Yes, a warship or authorized government vessel from any state can legally stop, board, and potentially seize a ship on the high seas that is flying a false flag.

Under international maritime law, specifically Article 92 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), a ship must sail under the flag of only one State. If a ship sails under two or more flags according to convenience, or under a false flag (without the authorization of that country), it may be treated as a stateless vessel.

Stateless vessels are not entitled to the protection or the exclusive jurisdiction of any flag state. This means that the principle of freedom of navigation, which generally prevents interference by other nations on the high seas, does not apply.

Article 110 of UNCLOS explicitly grants any warship the right to board a merchant ship on the high seas if there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that:

  • The ship is engaged in piracy or the slave trade.
  • The ship is involved in unauthorized broadcasting.
  • The ship is, in reality, of the same nationality as the warship, despite flying a foreign flag.
  • The ship is without nationality (stateless).
The recent seizure of the oil tanker Skipper by the U.S. demonstrates this principle. The U.S. government justified the seizure by pointing out that the vessel was falsely flying the flag of Guyana, a fact confirmed by the Guyanese Maritime Administration. Additionally, the U.S. had a federal judicial warrant to seize the vessel due to its alleged involvement in an illicit "dark fleet" oil trafficking network that violated sanctions against Venezuela and Iran, which further solidifies the legal basis for the action.

In summary, any state with the capability and reasonable grounds for suspicion can act against a ship using a false flag, as it is considered a matter of enforcing public order and security on the high seas."

Interestingly, neither the USA or Venezuela are signatories of this nearly universal law. Google ai still justifies it by "customary law."

It is also interesting that "Overall "Dark Fleet" Percentage: The "dark" or "shadow" fleet (vessels with obscured ownership and operations, often using deceptive practices like false flags) now accounts for an estimated 10% to 17% of all global seaborne oil transportation."
There should be more done about false flag ships. I hope they do not get their oil or their ship back unless they have a good legal reason. In those ships that cut the underwater cables, some officers are charged with crimes. Typically the ships were returned though.
Thanks for insight on this!


I see there were 2 problems there with the tanker, and not one.
 
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Gene2memE

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The Skipper. That is the name of the sanctioned, Venezuelan oil tanker which the US Coast Guard seized yesterday.

Pam Bondi feels like it was headed to Iran, to help perfect their terrorism against USA interests.
Do you think this was legal, or it was blatant theft by the Trump DoD? And, an international act of piracy??

The Venezuelen GOVT feels it was those things, if you go by the report from an NBC News affiliate:

This one was actually done by the book. The seizure appears to be a legal under US law and at least defensible under international maritime law.

However, if you were looking to calm down US-Venezuela tensions, this REALLY doesn't help. One would think that this sort of action amounts to deliberate provocation.

This seizure also shows the Trump Administration's hypocrisy over its recent actions across the Caribbean with the drone strikes AND its lack of action concerning sanctioned Russian oil vessels.

To conduct this seizure, the US co-ordinated elements from the FBI, US Navy, US Coast Guard and various other Homeland Security investigation/intelligence organs and put physical elements (ships, helos) into harms way in international waters. Yet, it is very deliberately NOT doing this to seize the "drug boats" and arrest their crews, instead choosing extrajudicial execution as a strategy.

Also, the US has sanctioned more than 180 Russian oil tankers. I wonder how the Trump administration would react to proposals that it pull similar seizures on Russian vessels in the Mediterranean?
 
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Richard T

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This one was actually done by the book. The seizure appears to be a legal under US law and at least defensible under international maritime law.

However, if you were looking to calm down US-Venezuela tensions, this REALLY doesn't help. One would think that this sort of action amounts to deliberate provocation.

This seizure also shows the Trump Administration's hypocrisy over its recent actions across the Caribbean with the drone strikes AND its lack of action concerning sanctioned Russian oil vessels.

To conduct this seizure, the US co-ordinated elements from the FBI, US Navy, US Coast Guard and various other Homeland Security investigation/intelligence organs and put physical elements (ships, helos) into harms way in international waters. Yet, it is very deliberately NOT doing this to seize the "drug boats" and arrest their crews, instead choosing extrajudicial execution as a strategy.

Also, the US has sanctioned more than 180 Russian oil tankers. I wonder how the Trump administration would react to proposals that it pull similar seizures on Russian vessels in the Mediterranean?
The Europeans should do this all the false flag ships that the Russians use. Many of those ships too have environmental problems. Russia’s shadow fleet accused of polluting EU waters

I suppose they are too afraid to stop them? They have prosecuted a few that have cut underwater cables though.
 
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