Trump’s team sees Europe’s ‘erasure.’

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-10T11:17:32-0600

Nithavela said:
If you think the EU is anything like unified, you should learn more about it. It really isn't. It's more of an alliance of convenience based on the lowest common denominator. That denominator would become even lower if the USA and Russia were in the mix.

So, no thank you. The EU and the USA, and much more the EU and Russia, are much too different for that kind of coalition.

I just don't understand why the blending of cultures, through migration is tolerated, but as far as government goes, there is no room blending.

...You say that one works, but the other doesn't, and that seems illogical to me.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-10T11:22:15-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
Not sure that would make a ton of sense... at what point would it just become a parallel (somewhat watered down) UN?

Some of the aspects is some shared services (like flight traffic control and defense agreements), border reciprocity, healthcare reciprocity, a parallel shared currency.

I don't know that having US and Canada added to that would make a lot of practical sense.

For Europe and the EU zone it makes a ton of sense, it's a bunch of close-together countries where you could potentially be on a 3 hour car ride and be in 3 different countries.

In looking at some some of the cross border travel patterns within the EU,
About 65% of EU residents aged 15 or over made at least 2 personal trips to other EU member nations in 2023.
(and roughly 3 million are "cross-border workers")

As where "across the pond" trips are much less common.

So it would be a lot of additional negotiating and building regulatory and reciprocity frameworks for scenarios that will be far less common (Americans and Canadians going to any European country - outside of work reasons - is one of those rarer expensive trips that people have to save up for, and it's one of those special "once every 5 years" types of vacations)

Though, what if moving your residence to Europe was an option, without all the strings attached, like say, taking a job and getting an apartment for 5 years somewhere.

...That would be interesting, IMO. It would broaden our horizons in a more helpful way, than say, only allowing migrants from outside the union into your country for low-end labor, or if your skilled, going through tons of paperwork, and waiting for approvals.

Think in terms of economics, where the best people in their field go where they're most helpful, over a larger area, more freely.

Stopped_lurking · 2025-12-10T11:33:53-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
Not sure that would make a ton of sense... at what point would it just become a parallel (somewhat watered down) UN?

Some of the aspects is some shared services (like flight traffic control and defense agreements), border reciprocity, healthcare reciprocity, a parallel shared currency.

I don't know that having US and Canada added to that would make a lot of practical sense.

For Europe and the EU zone it makes a ton of sense, it's a bunch of close-together countries where you could potentially be on a 3 hour car ride and be in 3 different countries.

In looking at some some of the cross border travel patterns within the EU,
About 65% of EU residents aged 15 or over made at least 2 personal trips to other EU member nations in 2023.
(and roughly 3 million are "cross-border workers")

As where "across the pond" trips are much less common.

So it would be a lot of additional negotiating and building regulatory and reciprocity frameworks for scenarios that will be far less common (Americans and Canadians going to any European country - outside of work reasons - is one of those rarer expensive trips that people have to save up for, and it's one of those special "once every 5 years" types of vacations)

I only said that if someone asked me, I wouldn't have any problem with it. As far as I know no countries outside of Europe are interested anyway.

Stopped_lurking · 2025-12-10T11:39:53-0600

Landon Caeli said:
A lot of people have been saying that Russia has been trying for years to get good with the West. Word is, they started this Ukraine war out of anxiety from being excluded.

Try talking to some russians and ukrainians. The russians I have talked to have a sense of spheres of influence thinking, arguing that Ukraine in some way are obliged to align itself with Russia. I and all ukrainians I have talked to seem to disagree. What have Russia ever done to get good with the west? They sent letter to Sweden arguing they have a say in matters of Swedens foreign policy.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-10T11:49:08-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
Try talking to some russians and ukrainians. The russians I have talked to have a sense of spheres of influence thinking, arguing that Ukraine in some way are obliged to align itself with Russia. I and all ukrainians I have talked to seem to disagree. What have Russia ever done to get good with the west? They sent letter to Sweden arguing they have a say in matters of Swedens foreign policy.

It's interesting, European culture, because I have people telling me what the topic of my own thread is, and saying I'm not permitted to talk about the EU, or hold opinions of it, since I don't live there, while in the meantime, opining about American politics on the daily.

...I think the similarities are actually more similar, between Russia and the rest of Europe, than anyone wants to admit, I mean, if we're being honest.

I wouldn't call it all "nationalism"..? I see more of a kind of "regionalism" where areas are showing bias, while not recognizing what they're doing. This regionalistic attitude seems to be a real problem between Russia and the rest of Europe, and I don't think the EU, as it is, helps in solving possibly the most serious war of our current time. Both sides need to come to terms and stop beating around the bush with this.

GoldenBoy89 · 2025-12-10T12:00:38-0600

Landon Caeli said:
European culture

What’s that?

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-10T12:05:54-0600

GoldenBoy89 said:
What’s that?

I'm pretty sure the rest of the post explains that in detail. I was talking about the entirety of Europe, and showing similarities, while also showing potential solutions, which are up for debate.

Do you have something you'd like to share, Goldenboy?

Stopped_lurking · 2025-12-10T12:14:40-0600

Landon Caeli said:
It's interesting, European culture

European culture? Europe is made of different countries.

Landon Caeli said:
, because I have people telling me what the topic of my own thread is, and saying I'm not permitted to talk about the EU, or hold opinions of it, since I don't live there, while in the meantime, opining about American politics on the daily.

Please express any views you have, but be prepared to get pushback if you are talking about any views as if they were shared between different countries.

Landon Caeli said:
...I think the similarities are actually more similar, between Russia and the rest of Europe, than anyone wants to admit, I mean, if we're being honest.

What similarities between Sweden and Russia are you talking about, if you are being honest?

Landon Caeli said:
I wouldn't call it all "nationalism"..? I see more of a kind of "regionalism" where areas are showing bias, while not recognizing what they'redoing. This regionalistic attitude seems to be a real problem between Russia and the rest of Europe, and I don't think the EU, as it is, helps in solving possibly the most serious war of our current time. Both sides need to come to terms and stop beating around the bush with this.

Russia is an imperialistic force, I have family in Finland and personal friends in the Baltic states. Russia's invasion of Ukraine shows that they are simply untrustworthy.

GoldenBoy89 · 2025-12-10T12:28:50-0600

Landon Caeli said:
I'm pretty sure the rest of the post explains that in detail. I was talking about the entirety of Europe, and showing similarities, while also showing potential solutions, which are up for debate.

I’m not sure there really is a singular European monoculture. Europe is a geographical region made up of many different countries with separate and distinct cultures. Heck, many of these countries have different regional cultures within them and not just one singular national culture. It’s like saying “North American” culture when the U.S. is culturally distinct from Canada and different still from Mexico or Cuba or Jamaica.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-10T12:40:54-0600

Landon Caeli said:
Do you feel like the current mood of Europe has had any negative impacts as far as other regions, including our own, since Nov. 1993, which marks the beginning of the EU?

Or has the EU been a consistent boon for the rest of the world?

I'm not sure what mood you're referring to. Is there anti-American sentiment among EU citizens? Yes, there are many cases, especially since the Iraq war. However, every European country recognizes that a strong alliance with the US and other Western democracies creates stability for the rest of the world.

The EU, NATO, and NATO Plus formed an alliance that brought about post–World War peace and global stability. This partnership also led to significant economic growth. Most importantly, from my perspective as an American, this alliance provided the United States with a considerable advantage, granting it supreme power not only in military terms but also economically and diplomatically.

I understand that Ronald Reagan's or John McCain’s foreign policy is different from today’s conservative foreign policy. However, as a true believer in Reagan’s approach to foreign policy, I would like to see the United States do everything in its power to keep the EU, NATO, and NATO Plus unified.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-10T12:43:33-0600

Landon Caeli said:
I think the United States is being excluded from all the fun. Why not go with the entire northern hemisphere, and invite Russia in too?

...Now that's being inclusive! And much more balanced. Just imagine it for a minute. Explore it in your mind.

Why would Russia be invited? Does Russia share similar democratic values with other Western democracies?

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-10T12:45:06-0600

Landon Caeli said:
As one, consisting of the entire northern hemisphere, with free travel throughout, the scale of possibilities seem almost glorious.

...I could buy a house in Sochi Russia for a fraction of the price I pay here. With all.the modern amenities.

View attachment 374299

If you believe that living in Sochi, Russia is the same as living in any other EU country, then you do not fully understand Russian people or Russan political system.

essentialsaltes · 2025-12-10T12:47:40-0600

What a weird thread. Ostensibly about breaking up the EU, it's all a snit about fines that are not clearly explained.

EU regulators said X's DSA violations included the deceptive design of its blue checkmark for verified accounts, the lack of transparency of its advertising repository and its failure to provide researchers access to public data.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-10T12:52:10-0600

Landon Caeli said:
A lot of people have been saying that Russia has been trying for years to get good with the West. Word is, they started this Ukraine war out of anxiety from being excluded.

If Russia wants to improve its relationship with the West, it should begin by focusing on its own country. Instead of persecuting opposition leaders and altering the constitution to concentrate power in the presidency, Russia ought to practice true democracy—respecting the rule of law and granting freedom to its citizens. Only then might the West consider Russia a functioning democracy, comparable to those in Western nations, before any potential invitation into their community. The EU has no need to invite Russia to join, especially since Russia initiated conflict.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-10T12:54:38-0600

essentialsaltes said:
What a weird thread. Ostensibly about breaking up the EU, it's all a snit about fines that are not clearly explained.

EU regulators said X's DSA violations included the deceptive design of its blue checkmark for verified accounts, the lack of transparency of its advertising repository and its failure to provide researchers access to public data.

What is unusual about this thread is that, twenty years ago, when I used to debate with Democrats and liberals, they often held similar views. I never imagined that one day I would be debating these topics with registered Republicans.

Aryeh Jay · 2025-12-10T13:10:19-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
What have Russia ever done to get good with the west?

Easy, they declared war on Nazi Germany after Hitler stabbed them in the back and invaded even though Russia had helped Hitler in the invasion and dividing up of Poland AND supplied Germany with resources after the Allies cut Germany off.

Hans Blaster · 2025-12-10T13:17:02-0600

GoldenBoy89 said:
What’s that?

It's how you say "western culture but not us".

Bradskii · 2025-12-10T13:46:42-0600

Landon Caeli said:
I think the United States is being excluded from all the fun.

Gee, I wonder why...

durangodawood · 2025-12-10T13:52:59-0600

Nithavela said:
Why would the headquarters of the EU be in London? The UK has left the EU years ago, and wasn't fully integrated before that.

Because its the last place enemies would think to look for it!

7thKeeper · 2025-12-10T14:43:21-0600

essentialsaltes said:
What a weird thread. Ostensibly about breaking up the EU, it's all a snit about fines that are not clearly explained.

EU regulators said X's DSA violations included the deceptive design of its blue checkmark for verified accounts, the lack of transparency of its advertising repository and its failure to provide researchers access to public data.

It's funny how the OP starts with a story about the fines, but doesn't seem to understand themselves what fines are for and just goes on about "free speech!" and some such, as if that had anything to do with them.

durangodawood said:
Because its the last place enemies would think to look for it!

Now that's a reasoning I can get behind! Set it up among all the Russian oligarchs living in London, no one would ever think to look for it there!

By the way, about the talk of having USA or Russia join the EU, they would need to fill app the requirements to join first. Russia outright fails several of them. Funnily enough, a short while ago, there was a bit of talk about Canada joining the EU and how it is technically/legalese possible. There's a bit about the nations being European only allowed to join, but the wording is a bit wonky in a way that leaves a good bit for interpretation for what would qualify.

Trump’s team sees Europe’s ‘erasure.’

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