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Do the Ten Commandments apply to Christians today?

BobRyan

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Again, no verse that shows that anyone kept the sabbath before Moses.
Until you read Gen 2:2-3 where the entire reason we HAVE a seven day week and not a 6 day week is that God MADE the Sabbath as Gen 2 points out and as the Sabbath command itself states in Ex 20:11

were we simply "not supposed to notice?

you have no "do not take God's name in vain" in the text before Ex 20:7 yet it is basic knowledge to all of us that this was in place even in Eden.

Too easy to miss this detail

"Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27 ... at the "making" of mankind, the Sabbath was made.

In Genesis 1-2
Secondly, Gen 6-7 contains the 7 Noahic laws which included not eating the flesh of a live animal
Yet clean vs unclean distinction details do not show up until Lev 11. Even though they needed to implement that distinction in Gen 7.

Your responses simply skim over details that show your solution does not work
 
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Hentenza

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Until you read Gen 2:2-3 where the entire reason we HAVE a seven day week and not a 6 day week is that God MADE the Sabbath as Gen 2 points out and as the Sabbath command itself states in Ex 20:11
Again, no verse that states that anyone before Moses kept the sabbath. And as I stated in my previous post and you avoided like the plague is the FACT that no one read Genesis or Exodus until Moses wrote them in the 15th century BCE. Are you not aware of biblical history?
were we simply "not supposed to notice?
Notice what? That seven day week has nothing to do with the 4th commandment. There was a seven day week even before the 4th commandment was given by God to Moses. No one kept the sabbath before then.
you have no "do not take God's name in vain" in the text before Ex 20:7 yet it is basic knowledge to all of us that this was in place even in Eden.
That again? Your argument begs the question and therefore a fallacy.
Too easy to miss this detail

"Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27 ... at the "making" of mankind, the Sabbath was made.

In Genesis 1-2

Yet clean vs unclean distinction details do not show up until Lev 11. Even though they needed to implement that distinction in Gen 7.
I’ve already answered this but you ignored it. Here let me repeat it. Maybe you can address it now.

Secondly, Gen 6-7 contains the 7 Noahic laws which included not eating the flesh of a live animal not about clean vs unclean.

Third, God had an opportunity to require the sabbath rest for Noah and his people but He did not make it part of the 7 laws. The 4th commandment was not given until Moses and the to Israel.
Your responses simply skim over details that show your solution does not work
No. Your replies are nothing but reading your pet doctrine into the texts and forming fallacious arguments. You can’t even look at the historical context because it blows your argument out of the water.
 
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Hentenza

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I though you had given up on that detail
Not me. I explained both the linguistic and historical context which you so far have totally ignored.
 
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BobRyan

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Again, no verse that states that anyone before Moses kept the sabbath.
Again. No text says "do not take God's name in vain" prior to Ex 20:7
Impossible to refute as we all know
But this does not mean Adam was taking God's name in vain
And as I stated in my previous post and you avoided like the plague is the FACT that no one read Genesis or Exodus until Moses wrote them
True but you ignore the glaringly obvious fact that Moses writes Genesis through Deut for his readers who have access to all of it. So then the meaning for clean vs unclean is known to his readers who have BOTH Genesis AND Lev.

The fact that God is able to talk to Adam prior to Moses writing something down is not even questioned by most readers. Is this news to you?
Notice what? That seven day week has nothing to do with the 4th commandment.
wake up. A week is seven days. You see this before Genesis even before Exodus.

why do you tread the simple details as if they are so difficult?
There was a seven day week even before the 4th commandment
True and the commandments exist before Sinai as even Moses writes that Abraham kept God's commandments, laws and statutes.

You keep skimming over the simple details so they have be reposted. Why keep doing that?
was given by God to Moses. No one kept the sabbath before then.
fiction
Secondly, Gen 6-7 contains the 7 Noahic laws
Not one of which contain the command "do not take God's name in vain"
Not one of which tells us how to differentiate between a clean vs unclean animal. We do not see that detail until Lev 11
Yet clearly in Gen 6,7,8, they knew it.
which included not eating the flesh of a live animal not about clean vs unclean.
I think need to actually read the Genesis account before going too far out on that limb again.

Gen 7:. 2 You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; 3 also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth.

this just isn't that hard
 
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Hentenza

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Again. No text says "do not take God's name in vain" prior to Ex 20:7
Impossible to refute as we all know
But this does not mean Adam was taking God's name in vain
Are you not understanding that the books of genesis and exodus were not written until the 15 century BCE? Can you prove that all of the wicked people that died during the flood did not take the name of God in vain?
True but you ignore the glaringly obvious fact that Moses writes Genesis through Deut for his readers who have access to all of it. So then the meaning for clean vs unclean is known to his readers who have BOTH Genesis AND Lev.
Since the book of Genesis was not written until Moses then only those after Moses had the clean vs unclean law and access to the books. Those before Moses did not have access that the books. The Noahic law only stated not to eat the flesh of a live animal and did not include the clean vs unclean law.
The fact that God is able to talk to Adam prior to Moses writing something down is not even questioned by most readers. Is this news to you?
So prove it. Give me a verse where anyone between Adam and Moses kept the sabbath.
wake up. A week is seven days. You see this before Genesis even before Exodus.
And? Another argument from silence?
why do you tread the simple details as if they are so difficult?
Because I actually use historical and linguistic context and you don’t.
True and the commandments exist before Sinai as even Moses writes that Abraham kept God's commandments, laws and statutes.
Which commandments did Abraham keep? Need a verse here.
You keep skimming over the simple details so they have be reposted. Why keep doing that?

fiction
So post a verse that shows that anyone prior to Moses kept the sabbath. You are so emphatic about this that it should be simple for you to prove it but not you have not so far.

Not one of which contain the command "do not take God's name in vain"
Not one of which tells us how to differentiate between a clean vs unclean animal. We do not see that detail until Lev 11
Yet clearly in Gen 6,7,8, they knew it.
Post the verse from Gen 6-8 that shows the commandment to not to take Gods name in vain.
I think need to actually read the Genesis account before going too far out on that limb again.

Gen 7:. 2 You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; 3 also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth.
And how does this prove that people before Moses kept the sabbath? In fact? I would venture to say that this is an addition for I the text by the scribes given the law. There was absolutely no proof that Noah had been given the clean and unclean law. Even the seven laws that God gave him to not include that.
this just isn't that hard
It sure isn’t. But when you inject bias into the text it does become much harder.
 
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Dan Perez

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Considering Paul has a salvation warning 2Peter3:16 , I would caution anyone who is using Paul against the very Testimony of Jesus Himself Who said the Sabbath would not end at the Cross Mat24:20 or ever Isa66:22-23

There is more than one Sabbath in Scripture, one came before sin one after sin that had to do with food and drink and offerings the context of this passage. I have completed a Bible study on this that spells out the context hopefully some will take the time to prayerfully study before carelessly disregarding one of God’s own personally written and spoken commandments and His own Testimony Exo31:18 Isa8:20

First, we can't isolate Col 2:16 without looking at the immediate context if we truly want to understand what Paul is speaking about.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This verse sets up the following verses and gives us a lot more context.
Paul is giving us the context as to what he is speaking about
  1. handwritten
  2. against and contrary to us
1. Was the Sabbath commandment "handwritten" ?

Lets look at what the Bible says
Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

The had is what man uses to write with, on scrolls with ink. The finger is not the hand and no man could possible write with their finger on Stone, only God could do so, by design so man should not not to mess God’s commandments, not a jot or tittle because man is not God.


2. Is the Sabbath commandment against and contrary to us

Lets look at what Jesus said:
Mat 2:28 The Sabbath was made for man
The Sabbath was made for man, what God makes for man is not against us. The Sabbath is blessed and sanctified by God, its not the definition of contrary and against

Context doesn't fit

So looking at the immediate context shows clearly Paul is not speaking of the Sabbath commandment. Nor does Paul have the authority to change God's written and spoken Testimony Exo 31:18 the words of the covenant Exo 34:28 that God promised He would not alter Psa 89:34 they went from written on tables of stone to written on tablets of the heart 2 Cor 3:3 Heb 8:10 because God keeps His promises.

Right here is enough to know Paul is not referring to the Sabbath commandment, but lets keep going.

This is what Paul is quoting the law he is referring to is from

Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

2 Cor33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.” (Handwriting of ordiances the context)

The laws that were beside the ark of the Covenant handwritten by Moses, there as a witness against, the context of Col 2:14


But lets look at this verse closer

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
The Greek word for sabbath here is plural not singular. So its not speaking of "The" Sabbath day "The holy day of the Lord" as already seen in the context.

Paul is quoting Ezekiel all of the sacrifices and offerings.

Eze 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and theburnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

What was predicted would end when Jesus came?

Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

So this is not about any of the Ten Commandments but about the food and drink offerings, feast days that some were also annual sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses placed besides the ark of the covenant that came after the fall of man. The Sabbath started at Creation before sin Exo 20:11 so can't be a "shadow" of anything as it is part of God's perfect plan before sin took over and a need for a plan of salvation.

Why if you look at the next verse it clearly shows what it is referring to which works in perfect harmony with the context

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. (contrary and against)
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU DID NOT DESIRE, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME.
Heb 10:6 IN BURNT OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAD NO PLEASURE.
Heb 10:7 THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME—IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME—TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.' "
Heb 10:8 Previously saying, "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING, BURNT OFFERINGS, AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU DID NOT DESIRE, NOR HAD PLEASURE IN THEM" (which are offered according to the law),
Heb 10:9 then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

Exo 12:17 43 So the Lord said to Moses and Aaron: This is the ordinance of the Passover:
1Co 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.

I know this is a popular teaching, but the context does not fit the Sabbath commandment written by the finger of God that is part of God's holy and eternal law Mat 5:18-19 Isa 66:23
AND Antone reating Heb 9:18 has to ADM,IT what Paul who wrote HEB. 9:18 IS TRUE ad many I see reject it EVEN

WHEN reading Hb. 9:18. !!

Therefore. , not even the FIRST COVENANT was dedicated. WIOTHOUT. BLOOD ( CHECK. EXO 24 ;3-8. IS . ONLY

the b. BLOOD OF ANIMAL and that iOS n. why JESAUS died off a CROSS. and only the BLOOD OF CHRIST CAN

SAVED US ALL FROM SIN. !!

dan p
 
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