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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Charlie Kirk Didn’t Shy Away From Who He Was. We Shouldn’t, Either
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The Barbarian
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The Barbarian
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The election. Biden beat Trump convincingly. Yes, Trump whined and threw tantrums, even incited an insurrection to stop the certification of the election. But Biden beat him.
And imagine the howls of MAGA if Joe Biden had kept falling asleep in meetings as Trump has. Dozy Don is clearly not as sharp as Biden was during his presidency.
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BPPLEE
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Photos showing Donald Trump's eyes closed during meetings—such as a recent White House Cabinet meeting on December 2, 2025, or an earlier Oval Office event on November 6, 2025—have circulated widely online, often with claims that they prove he was asleep. These images, captured by professional photographers like those from Getty Images and AFP, typically depict momentary closures. However, fact-checks and full video context indicate they are not definitive proof of sleep. Instead, they often align with brief actions like blinking, pausing for emphasis, or listening with eyes shut. Broader video evidence sometimes suggests dozing (e.g., head dipping or yawning), but even then, it's interpretive rather than conclusive without medical confirmation.Key Evidence from Specific IncidentsHere's a breakdown of notable examples based on verified reporting:
Why Photos Alone Aren't Proof
Source Grok
| Incident | Description of Photos | Video/Context Analysis | Official Response/Fact-Check Verdict |
|---|---|---|---|
| Dec. 2, 2025 Cabinet Meeting (~2.5-hour session) | Multiple stills show eyes fully or partially closed (e.g., while seated next to Secretary of State Marco Rubio). Total eye-closure time estimated at ~6 minutes across stretches. | Videos show yawning (e.g., at 1:34:21) and head dropping then snapping up (e.g., at 1:16:07), suggesting drowsiness. Trump engaged actively at times (nodding, calling on speakers, Q&A). Late-night Truth Social posting prior may have contributed to fatigue. | White House: "Listening attentively and running the entire meeting."Snopes/Yahoo: True drowsiness shown in video, but photos could be blinks; not full sleep. NYT/People: "Appearing to fight sleep," but no confirmation of sustained napping. |
| Nov. 6, 2025 Oval Office Event (Drug price announcement) | Images capture eyes closed or heavy-lidded while standing/speaking; one shows slumping in a chair. | Full footage: Eyes open most of the time; closures last 1–5 seconds. Trump spoke throughout and fielded questions. Critics (e.g., Gov. Newsom's office) called it "dozing." | White House: "Not sleeping; spoke throughout." CNN/Factually: Ambiguous photos; no proof of sleep, possibly rubbing eyes or pausing. |
| May 2025 Saudi Arabia Meeting(Diplomatic welcome) | Photos from ceremony show eyes closed while seated with Crown Prince. | Longer clips: Closures ~2 seconds; Trump alert overall, no jerking awake. Dubbed "Sleepy Don" online. | Newsweek: False claim of sleep; brief and unlikely. Factually: Evidence of closures but ambiguous; Trump's self-reported 4–5 hour sleep habit cited as context. |
- Timing and Selection: Photographers take thousands of shots per event, often selecting "expressive" frames. A single image freezes a 1–2 second blink or thoughtful pause, which anyone does in long meetings (average blink rate: 15–20 per minute).
- Defenses and Patterns: Trump has claimed he "closes [his] beautiful blue eyes... to listen intensely" (e.g., during his 2024 trial). Supporters on X argue posture (e.g., hand on temple) shows alertness. No witnesses or medical reports confirm sleep in these cases.
- Counter-Evidence: In all instances, full videos reveal engagement (e.g., interrupting speakers, delivering remarks). Dozing-like behaviors appear tied to age (79), schedule (minimal sleep), or irony—Trump frequently mocked Joe Biden as "Sleepy Joe" for similar optics.
- Broader Debate: Critics highlight these as fitness concerns, while fact-checkers note bias in viral sharing. No incident shows sustained unconsciousness (e.g., snoring or unresponsiveness).
Source Grok
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The Barbarian
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The election. Biden beat Trump convincingly. Yes, Trump whined and threw tantrums, even incited an insurrection to stop the certification of the election. But Biden beat him.
And imagine the howls of MAGA if Joe Biden had kept falling asleep in meetings as Trump has. Dozy Don is clearly not as sharp as Biden was during his presidency.
Executive summary
Video and photos from a Dec. 2, 2025 White House Cabinet meeting show President Donald Trump with his eyes closed several times and at least once fully closed while officials spoke; multiple outlets describe him as “fighting sleep” or “appearing to doze,” while the White House press secretary said he was “listening attentively and running the entire” meeting [1] [2]. News organizations counted repeated moments of drooping or closed eyes during the roughly three‑hour meeting; some outlets quantified the behavior (for example, reporting “nearly six minutes” of eyes shut in aggregate) while others simply described multiple episodes [3] [4].
Obviously, Donald Trump has declined significantly since Joe Biden beat him in a presidential election. But it was obvious even before the last election...
Trump was brutally mocked as “Dozy Don” by California Gov. Gavin Newsom in October after he appeared to drift off at an event discussing the threat his administration said is posed by Antifa activists, in revenge for the president’s regular jibes against “Sleepy Joe” throughout his presidency.
Trump previously appeared to drift off during his criminal trial in Manhattan in May 2024 when the strain of fighting four indictments while campaigning for the White House seemed to get the better of him.
www.independent.co.uk
And imagine the howls of MAGA if Joe Biden had kept falling asleep in meetings as Trump has. Dozy Don is clearly not as sharp as Biden was during his presidency.
Executive summary
Video and photos from a Dec. 2, 2025 White House Cabinet meeting show President Donald Trump with his eyes closed several times and at least once fully closed while officials spoke; multiple outlets describe him as “fighting sleep” or “appearing to doze,” while the White House press secretary said he was “listening attentively and running the entire” meeting [1] [2]. News organizations counted repeated moments of drooping or closed eyes during the roughly three‑hour meeting; some outlets quantified the behavior (for example, reporting “nearly six minutes” of eyes shut in aggregate) while others simply described multiple episodes [3] [4].
Obviously, Donald Trump has declined significantly since Joe Biden beat him in a presidential election. But it was obvious even before the last election...
Trump was brutally mocked as “Dozy Don” by California Gov. Gavin Newsom in October after he appeared to drift off at an event discussing the threat his administration said is posed by Antifa activists, in revenge for the president’s regular jibes against “Sleepy Joe” throughout his presidency.
Trump previously appeared to drift off during his criminal trial in Manhattan in May 2024 when the strain of fighting four indictments while campaigning for the White House seemed to get the better of him.
Fox News doctor tries to spin sleepy Donald Trump by comparing him to Thomas Edison
President drowsed for an estimated six minutes during Tuesday’s cabinet meeting
www.independent.co.uk
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The Barbarian
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BPPLEE
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I fell asleep watching that. Glad I don’t have to listen to that for hoursThe election. Biden beat Trump convincingly. Yes, Trump whined and threw tantrums, even incited an insurrection to stop the certification of the election. But Biden beat him.
And imagine the howls of MAGA if Joe Biden had kept falling asleep in meetings as Trump has. Dozy Don is clearly not as sharp as Biden was during his presidency.
Executive summary
Video and photos from a Dec. 2, 2025 White House Cabinet meeting show President Donald Trump with his eyes closed several times and at least once fully closed while officials spoke; multiple outlets describe him as “fighting sleep” or “appearing to doze,” while the White House press secretary said he was “listening attentively and running the entire” meeting [1] [2]. News organizations counted repeated moments of drooping or closed eyes during the roughly three‑hour meeting; some outlets quantified the behavior (for example, reporting “nearly six minutes” of eyes shut in aggregate) while others simply described multiple episodes [3] [4].
Obviously, Donald Trump has declined significantly since Joe Biden beat him in a presidential election. But it was obvious even before the last election...
Trump was brutally mocked as “Dozy Don” by California Gov. Gavin Newsom in October after he appeared to drift off at an event discussing the threat his administration said is posed by Antifa activists, in revenge for the president’s regular jibes against “Sleepy Joe” throughout his presidency.
Trump previously appeared to drift off during his criminal trial in Manhattan in May 2024 when the strain of fighting four indictments while campaigning for the White House seemed to get the better of him.
Fox News doctor tries to spin sleepy Donald Trump by comparing him to Thomas Edison
President drowsed for an estimated six minutes during Tuesday’s cabinet meeting
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The Barbarian
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BPPLEE
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Too bad that you only see this in Trump and dismiss all the videos of Biden’s gaffes and wondering around lostThe election. Biden beat Trump convincingly. Yes, Trump whined and threw tantrums, even incited an insurrection to stop the certification of the election. But Biden beat him.
And imagine the howls of MAGA if Joe Biden had kept falling asleep in meetings as Trump has. Dozy Don is clearly not as sharp as Biden was during his presidency.
Executive summary
Video and photos from a Dec. 2, 2025 White House Cabinet meeting show President Donald Trump with his eyes closed several times and at least once fully closed while officials spoke; multiple outlets describe him as “fighting sleep” or “appearing to doze,” while the White House press secretary said he was “listening attentively and running the entire” meeting [1] [2]. News organizations counted repeated moments of drooping or closed eyes during the roughly three‑hour meeting; some outlets quantified the behavior (for example, reporting “nearly six minutes” of eyes shut in aggregate) while others simply described multiple episodes [3] [4].
Obviously, Donald Trump has declined significantly since Joe Biden beat him in a presidential election. But it was obvious even before the last election...
Trump was brutally mocked as “Dozy Don” by California Gov. Gavin Newsom in October after he appeared to drift off at an event discussing the threat his administration said is posed by Antifa activists, in revenge for the president’s regular jibes against “Sleepy Joe” throughout his presidency.
Trump previously appeared to drift off during his criminal trial in Manhattan in May 2024 when the strain of fighting four indictments while campaigning for the White House seemed to get the better of him.
Fox News doctor tries to spin sleepy Donald Trump by comparing him to Thomas Edison
President drowsed for an estimated six minutes during Tuesday’s cabinet meeting
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The Barbarian
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I'm failing to see evidence of Biden falling asleep in meetings. Biden has had his share of gaffes though. Nothing on the level of "windmills cause cancer" or "magnets don't work in water":, but gaffes nonetheless.
Trump wanders off during walk with Japanese Prime Minister
Donald Trump appeared to wander off while being given a tour by new Japanese prime minister Sanae Takaichi.During a welcome ceremony, the new leader of Japan guided the president around a room filled with troops and dignitaries.
At one point, Trump saluted the US and Japanese flags and then kept walking, leaving Takaichi behind to bow to the flags alone. On two other occasions, she had to direct him where to walk.
During the trip to Asia, Trump confirmed that he’d had an MRI during a visit to Walter Reed Medical Center but would not disclose the reason.
WASHINGTON, DC: President Donald Trump faced online mockery as he wandered away before signing executive orders and was guided back on Wednesday, April 2.
Trump guided back to sign orders after wandering off in viral clip, Internet calls it 'Biden moment'
President Donald Trump faced mockery after a viral video showed him wandering away before signing executive orders during a Rose Garden ceremony
Trump forgets what his limo looks like and wanders off from his airplane
And now we're told his "executive time" wherein he does social media and watches television, has been expanded to much of the day:
Leaked schedule shows how many hours Donald Trump spends at the office
Donald Trump has been savaged for his work hours and spends most of his day in “executive time”, a stunning report suggests.
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BPPLEE
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I'm failing to see evidence of Biden falling asleep in meetings. Biden has had his share of gaffes though. Nothing on the level of "windmills cause cancer" or "magnets don't work in water":, but gaffes nonetheless.
Trump wanders off during walk with Japanese Prime Minister
Donald Trump appeared to wander off while being given a tour by new Japanese prime minister Sanae Takaichi.
During a welcome ceremony, the new leader of Japan guided the president around a room filled with troops and dignitaries.
At one point, Trump saluted the US and Japanese flags and then kept walking, leaving Takaichi behind to bow to the flags alone. On two other occasions, she had to direct him where to walk.
During the trip to Asia, Trump confirmed that he’d had an MRI during a visit to Walter Reed Medical Center but would not disclose the reason.
WASHINGTON, DC: President Donald Trump faced online mockery as he wandered away before signing executive orders and was guided back on Wednesday, April 2.
Trump guided back to sign orders after wandering off in viral clip, Internet calls it 'Biden moment'
President Donald Trump faced mockery after a viral video showed him wandering away before signing executive orders during a Rose Garden ceremonynews.meaww.com
Trump forgets what his limo looks like and wanders off from his airplane
And now we're told his "executive time" wherein he does social media and watches television, has been expanded to much of the day:
Leaked schedule shows how many hours Donald Trump spends at the office
Donald Trump has been savaged for his work hours and spends most of his day in “executive time”, a stunning report suggests.
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BPPLEE
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Yes, Biden beat Trump, but his mental decline was so bad over the next 4 years his own party deemed him unfit to run for office. Then Trump beat Harris, the best the Democrats had to offer
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GoldenBoy89
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He’s 80 years old. The old man was napping and dozing off. Not really groundbreaking stuff here. That’s what happens at that advanced age. It’s actually even worse when you have the White House trying to explain it away like this. Like we can’t clearly see him nodding off throughout the meeting.
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RocksInMyHead
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Can we agree that Trump currently shows very similar signs of advanced age to what Biden showed during his term? I'm not going to try to quibble over who is/was "worse," but if one thinks that Biden was senile based on his speech patterns and actions, then one must also conclude that Trump is also senile, and vice versa.
For what it's worth, I didn't think Biden was senile during his presidency, and I don't think Trump is senile now - they're both showing signs of being old, which makes sense because they are old. But it comes across as very disingenuous when people who were (and still are) screeching vehemently about Biden being a senile old man dismiss the same behaviors from Trump and declare him "sharp as a tack."
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