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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

stevevw

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Steve, they AREN'T credible.
Who is they. Are you now tarring the entire Trump admin, the good military officers. No the hypocrites and legacy media are not the credible ones.

Its been shown time and time again how they have made claims only to be shown wrong. Its the ones attacking Trump who are not credible.

Its been shown beyond doubt how they twist and change stories to make Trump look bad. How they hunted him down like no other person in the history of politics. Give me a break.

Its all coming out, how the Left were asbused power and used lawfare.
Trump never was, but at least in Trump I there were actual credible people around him (or even semi-credible people like Mike Pence). This is just no longer the case.
This is biased.
There is no one credible at the top of HHS, or DOJ. Federal judges question the credibility and the presumption of regularity in DOJ filings (the presumption that they are telling the truth). Hegseth isn't credible, neither is Gabbard; Sec. Treas. Bessant shows how not credible he is on an ongoing basis. (Not to mention economic clowns like Lutnik and Kevin Hasselt.) The spokes people lie through their teeth with nearly every sentence.


mega snip

I don't know if I am going to respond to another one of you wars on reality. I tried to demonstrate your wrongness, but you just double down with bad analogies, rejections of facts, and other sycophantic behavior. I think I have said enough for now.
This is all bias. They have just shown that the strikes on the narcos was legal and now this shows all the ones getting in a frenzy over Trump and the good people around him are the actual ones we cannot trust. Once again like the other times they made out Trumnp was a Nazi. They are wrong and are hypocrites.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Who is they. Are you now tarring the entire Trump admin, the good military officers.
An officer who orders a strike against two men floating with debris is not a good officer. He is a murderer.
No the hypocrites and legacy media are not the credible ones.
Hegseth, et al keep admitting small parts of that reporting. Members of Congress from both chambers and parties have seen the footage and what they say matches the reporting.

Talk about your bias, Steve, you are acting like a massive Trump bootlick to defend the indefensible actions of his subordinates. What gain you by this?
 
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Servus

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The point is you don't know whether they are or not. You don't even know that all the boats destroyed had drugs on them.
Yeah, it's kinda like we're all speculating.
 
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stevevw

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I've decided your post was so full of nonsense that I would take the time to dissect it.
Thankyou I am so gracious that you will take the time to give your personal and biased opinion lol.
This is a nonsense claim, but at least it isn't yours. No definition of "terrorist" overlaps with what the cartels do inside the US.
Are you now an expert on political legalities.
For some reason I cannot fathom, the above is written to counter the *fact* that the cartels are not transporting cocaine to use as a weapon against drug users. Do they care if some of their customers die? Most likely not. Is their intent to kill their own customers? I don't think so.
Now your rationalising how drug lords think and trying to justify their actions. You don't know as you are not within the level of authority as to knowing all the information. But your quite willing to act like you do.
This next bit was *also* in response to that statement, but it is so far from being responsive or on topic that I will address it separately.

That is not what they said. They reminded anyone who heard it that members of the United States Armed forces have an OBLIGATION to refuse to obey an illegal order. As reporting has continued, it becomes more clear that illegal orders were issued.
No thats my point. They had legal representation with them on the mission and they stated it was legal. I am saying you don't know the details and yet you claim to know more than everyone involved. Your not an expert and you don't know so stiop pretending you do.
The theoretical amount of coke that a single boat could carry in a year is not relevant. The people in that boat were not responsible for what could happen.
They are the foot soldiers who carry out the illegal activity. Does a judge let them off because they claim they don't know. Its like the Nazi soldiers claiming they were only carrying out orders. They know exactly what is going on. Stop trying to make excuses for them.
That is not how culpability works. I ain't "minimizing" anything. I just think your claim that the crew of this boat was responsible for thousands of deaths and by implication deserved to be murdered was ridiculous. (You don't know the intel either.)
This is silly. Its like saying the foot soldiers of terrorist who plant the bombs or chemical poison are innocent. Its all part of the same operation. What do they do asllow the foot soldiers to plant the drugs because they are not the ones who gave the order.
I realy don't care how far "gone" convict island is. The most depraved part of this incident is the extrajudicial murder of the boat crews.
Its not murder and this shows exactly your hypocracy. This has now been shown to be legal. There was a legal expert on the plane with them informing them of every move they made to be sure it was legal.

It has now been found that the two were claimbing back into the boat and radioing through to other narcos to come. They were still in the fight and trying to save their pay load and perhaps even calling for backup to fight., But certainly trying to recover the drugs to continue their mission.

Once again the hypocracy of those who are so fixated on hating Trump[ and his admin that they are blind with bias and want to be judge, jury and executioner before all the facts come out,
I used widely available information about the drug trade, overdose rates, etc. Most of it the intel agencies would get from the exact same place I did. All of it was to show that your estimation of the potential deaths caused by the cocaine that was being transported was grossly overestimated.

Trump is not relevant here. He didn't issue the order to kill.

I'm not allowing you to change the topic. They weren't carrying chemical weapons intended to attack the US. This is also not the place to discuss drug policy. It is a thread about drone strikes.


Wrong topic


No cartel has conducted terrorist operations in the US.

Those are the excuses I expect the Admin to make. I don't need them from you.

I can judge the actions of the government if I like. I have that right. Their not bloody kings.
I will not bother with the rest as you have disqualified yourself showing bias.
 
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Servus

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The conclusion is that everyone has a theory they can pull out of thin air. If we want intelligence to plan rational action, we need more data points.
Then perhaps all of the outrage should wait for that.
 
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Servus

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The point is you don't know whether they are or not. You don't even know that all the boats destroyed had drugs on them.
Neither do all of the folks expressing outrage and tossing out words like murder and war crime.
 
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stevevw

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An officer who orders a strike against two men floating with debris is not a good officer. He is a murderer.
Its now been shown that they were not just innocents floating in the water. But they were actively still in the fight. Getting back on the boat, gathering the drugs back onto the boat and radioing through to other narcos to come.

But you were willing to assume their guilt because of the bias and hate you have for Trump. This has been the repeated narrative over and over again where those fixated on Trump because of hate are proven wrong. They spread false narratives and make unfounded claims only to be shown wrong.
Hegseth, et al keep admitting small parts of that reporting. Members of Congress from both chambers and parties have seen the footage and what they say matches the reporting.
There was a legal expert on the plane with the officer and a legal go ahead was given.
Talk about your bias, Steve, you are acting like a massive Trump bootlick to defend the indefensible actions of his subordinates. What gain you by this?
No I am only going on what actually happened and not jumping the gun as Trump haters keep doing and assuming the worse. The bias has already been verified over and over again by the Leftist Trump haters.

I don't back Trump but anyone can see the blantant bias against him. I have never seen such a level of bias against someone. Especially when we are beginning to actually see that the Left were up to much worse and yet no one ever said a word and they knew all along.

Give me a break. How can you trust such people with such obvious bias.
 
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BCP1928

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Its now been shown that they were not just innocents floating in the water. But they were actively still in the fight. Getting back on the boat, gathering the drugs back onto the boat and radioing through to other narcos to come.

But you were willing to assume their guilt because of the bias and hate you have for Trump. This has been the repeated narrative over and over again where those fixated on Trump because of hate are proven wrong. They spread false narratives and make unfounded claims only to be shown wrong.

There was a legal expert on the plane with the officer and a legal go ahead was given.

No I am only going on what actually happened and not jumping the gun as Trump haters keep doing and assuming the worse. The bias has already been verified over and over again by the Leftist Trump haters.

I don't back Trump but anyone can see the blantant bias against him. I have never seen such a level of bias against someone. Especially when we are beginning to actually see that the Left were up to much worse and yet no one ever said a word and they knew all along.

Give me a break. How can you trust such people with such obvious bias.
In the fight? Were they shooting back? I hadn't heard that.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Thankyou I am so gracious that you will take the time to give your personal and biased opinion lol.

Are you now an expert on political legalities.
It's basic stuff and all over the news.
Now your rationalising how drug lords think and trying to justify their actions. You don't know as you are not within the level of authority as to knowing all the information. But your quite willing to act like you do.
No. I have done no such thing.
No thats my point. They had legal representation with them on the mission and they stated it was legal. I am saying you don't know the details and yet you claim to know more than everyone involved. Your not an expert and you don't know so stiop pretending you do.
A lawyer, in the operations room, with two guys on top of a bit of wreckage says "sure, it's legal to kill shipwrecked men". Either this is just your speculation, or you've confused the legal "sign off" on the general interdiction mission, or we've got someone else for the stockade.
They are the foot soldiers who carry out the illegal activity. Does a judge let them off because they claim they don't know. Its like the Nazi soldiers claiming they were only carrying out orders. They know exactly what is going on. Stop trying to make excuses for them.
The only "foot soldiers" here are the drone operators and they seem headed for the stockade. "carrying out orders" didn't work for the Nazi's.
This is silly. Its like saying the foot soldiers of terrorist who plant the bombs or chemical poison are innocent. Its all part of the same operation. What do they do asllow the foot soldiers to plant the drugs because they are not the ones who gave the order.
There are no terrorists here.
Its not murder and this shows exactly your hypocracy. This has now been shown to be legal. There was a legal expert on the plane with them informing them of every move they made to be sure it was legal.
On the plane? It was a drone.
It has now been found that the two were claimbing back into the boat and radioing through to other narcos to come. They were still in the fight and trying to save their pay load and perhaps even calling for backup to fight., But certainly trying to recover the drugs to continue their mission.
Oh it has? That's not what MoC who have seen the footage say, D & R.
Once again the hypocracy of those who are so fixated on hating Trump[ and his admin that they are blind with bias and want to be judge, jury and executioner before all the facts come out,
Good grief. Go find a politician in your own country to obsess about.
I will not bother with the rest as you have disqualified yourself showing bias.
Have you considered a long walk on the short pier?
 
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rjs330

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What I was asking for initially was what the Christian motivation could be for judging the killing of those two men a righteous act. You get all uppity when I bring Christanity into it, but even atheists who think interdicting those boats by just blowing them up is OK, draw the line at circling around to kill the survivors in the water. The only people who I have talked to about it who think such an action was righteous have been Christians.
Thou shalt not murder is the law. The question is, is it murder? The government has deemed it just to kill those attempting to bring poison into the country which will kill and destroy. God has deemed that government has the obligation to put fear into the hearts of evil doers to protect its people. And even God makes allowances for killing of evil doers by the governement. This is why you should not get into a debate over Christian matters. You dont know enough. You only have an opinion. And in the matter of Christian law and teaching you are ignorant.

Right now, the debate is whether or not it is allowed by law. The law apparently is not clear on the matter. Maybe the Supreme Court will make a ruling on the matter and settle the debate. If it does then we should accept that and move on.
 
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stevevw

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It's basic stuff and all over the news.
Now the legacy media is your source. lol.
No. I have done no such thing.
Did not you just rationalise why drug cartels are thinking about the trade they are in. You were claiming to know whats in their minds and what motivates them.
A lawyer, in the operations room, with two guys on top of a bit of wreckage says "sure, it's legal to kill shipwrecked men". Either this is just your speculation, or you've confused the legal "sign off" on the general interdiction mission, or we've got someone else for the stockade.
The head of the operation who was the person who gave the go ahead and a military officer was informed by the legal expert about whether it was ok to make the second strike.

Based on the lead officers determination they were not shipwrecked men but active in the fight to save the cargo and radio through for backup. This being an armchair intelligence officer without being in the game. Moralising from the sidelines.
The only "foot soldiers" here are the drone operators and they seem headed for the stockade. "carrying out orders" didn't work for the Nazi's.
Thats because the Nazis were insane lol. Completely different. They are trying to stop the bad guys. The military are not the bad guys. This is like the Isrealis being conflated with Hamas.
There are no terrorists here.
Then show me the intelligence that shows this has nothing to do with terrorism and a national security issue.
On the plane? It was a drone.
Sorry I mean with the lead officer advising on the monitor.
Oh it has? That's not what MoC who have seen the footage say, D & R.
Well that is what the head officer who actually made the strike and was advised said. He should know.
Good grief. Go find a politician in your own country to obsess about.
Lol why are others not allowed to be interested in what happens in the US. You should be happy that we care. Australia has had a long history of influence from the US. We are basically a lot alike. So what happens in the US does affect the rest of the world and especially western nations.

The US use to be the worlds police and the one who championed freedom and democracy. Instead of all this culture wars.
Have you considered a long walk on the short pier?
Lol I will use that. Its hillarious. ^_^
 
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Hans Blaster

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Now the legacy media is your source. lol.
Your new found blanket dismissal of actual reports is not a good look steve. I have no reason to take anything you say on the subject seriously if you ignore actual sources.
 
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RDKirk

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Its now been shown that they were not just innocents floating in the water. But they were actively still in the fight. Getting back on the boat, gathering the drugs back onto the boat and radioing through to other narcos to come.
Nobody viewing the videos seems to have seen that except Tom Cotton. Everyone else reports seeing a vastly different picture.
 
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stevevw

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Nobody viewing the videos seems to have seen that except Tom Cotton. Everyone else reports seeing a vastly different picture.
Actually Cotton is backing Admiral Mitch Bradley a decorated officer who was in charge and stated it was a justified strike as they were still in the game.
 
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Stopped_lurking

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Thankyou I am so gracious that you will take the time to give your personal and biased opinion lol.

Are you now an expert on political legalities.

Now your rationalising how drug lords think and trying to justify their actions. You don't know as you are not within the level of authority as to knowing all the information. But your quite willing to act like you do.

No thats my point. They had legal representation with them on the mission and they stated it was legal. I am saying you don't know the details and yet you claim to know more than everyone involved. Your not an expert and you don't know so stiop pretending you do.

They are the foot soldiers who carry out the illegal activity. Does a judge let them off because they claim they don't know. Its like the Nazi soldiers claiming they were only carrying out orders. They know exactly what is going on. Stop trying to make excuses for them.

This is silly. Its like saying the foot soldiers of terrorist who plant the bombs or chemical poison are innocent. Its all part of the same operation. What do they do asllow the foot soldiers to plant the drugs because they are not the ones who gave the order.

Its not murder and this shows exactly your hypocracy. This has now been shown to be legal. There was a legal expert on the plane with them informing them of every move they made to be sure it was legal.

It has now been found that the two were claimbing back into the boat and radioing through to other narcos to come. They were still in the fight and trying to save their pay load and perhaps even calling for backup to fight., But certainly trying to recover the drugs to continue their mission.

Once again the hypocracy of those who are so fixated on hating Trump[ and his admin that they are blind with bias and want to be judge, jury and executioner before all the facts come out,

I will not bother with the rest as you have disqualified yourself showing bias.
I must have missed when legal experts on the September 2nd strike said that the second attack was ok. I tried searching for it, but found mostly articles that said it was illegal. Do you have a link?

Edited to add. I found a CNN clip.
 
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stevevw

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That wasn't meant as a compliment.
Yes it was. It waas the US mainly along with the allies that stopped the Nazis and established order in the world to some degree. At least as far as the evil regimes that were trying to take over the world.

Australia very much depends on US alliance as we are not in a position to defend outselves from such evil doers.
 
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