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The Hebrew Calendar and the Traditional Roman Liturgy

johnnypapa

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Every Catholic is well aware of the fact that the date of Easter moves around the calendar every year. Not every Catholic knows why.

 

Yeshua HaDerekh

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Yeshua died on Pesakh, the 14th of Nisan. Unleavened starts on the 15th. Your article said "The reason for this is that the crucifixion of our Lord occurred during the feast of the Unleavened Bread, which was observed for seven days after Passover." It also wrongly states "Here Passover and the associated feast of Unleavened Bread are described. These roughly correspond to our Holy Thursday and Good Friday (the 14th and 15th days of the month, if the synoptic gospel narrative has any value) and the week of Easter."
 
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JimR-OCDS

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I know that there is discussion between the Vatican and the Orthodox religions to come up with celebrating Easter
on the same date. An Orthodox person I message with on FB agrees with me that whatever day they come up
with, it should be synced with the Jewish Passover.
 
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Mockingbird0

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I know that there is discussion between the Vatican and the Orthodox religions to come up with celebrating Easter
on the same date. An Orthodox person I message with on FB agrees with me that whatever day they come up
with, it should be synced with the Jewish Passover.
The traditional paschalion synchronizes Easter with Passover according to the Christian calculation of Passover. In 2025, the Gregorian lunar month of Nisan began on March 31 (that is, at sunset on March 30). Its 14th day (Passover) was Sunday, April 13. Easter was the following Sunday, April 20.

However if by saying "it should be synced with the Jewish Passover" he means that it should be synchronized with the first day of Unleavened Bread according to the present-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar, I respond that there are reasons not to do this. The first-century Jewish writer Josephus wrote that in Herodian times, the Passover sacrifices were offered at the first full moon on or after the Spring equinox (Antiquities 3.248/3.10.5). The modern-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar, due to a slight solar drift in its calculation, in 3 years out of every 19 places the Feast of Unleavened Bread at the second full moon after the equinox. This happens in the 3rd, 11th and 14th years of the Gregorian 19-year cycle. The last time this happened was in the year 2024, the 11th year of the cycle. The next time it will happen is the year 2027. the 14th year of the cycle. The Gregorian paschalion tries, and for the most part succeeds, to celebrate Easter at the time of the first full moon on or after the equinox, according to the rule described by Josephus. I see no reason to follow the present-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar in its error of celebrating sometimes at the second full moon after the equinox.
 
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Mockingbird0

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Yeshua died on Pesakh, the 14th of Nisan. Unleavened starts on the 15th. Your article said "The reason for this is that the crucifixion of our Lord occurred during the feast of the Unleavened Bread, which was observed for seven days after Passover." It also wrongly states "Here Passover and the associated feast of Unleavened Bread are described. These roughly correspond to our Holy Thursday and Good Friday (the 14th and 15th days of the month, if the synoptic gospel narrative has any value) and the week of Easter."
According to the Gospel of John Jesus was crucified on the 14th of Nisan and rose on the 16th. According to the synoptic Gospels Jesus was crucified on the 15th of Nisan and rose on the 17th. It was the Sunday of Unleavened Bread either way. Though John has theological reasons for setting the crucifixion on the 14th--it ties in with his motif of Jesus as the Lamb of God--I think John's date is historically more likely.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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The traditional paschalion synchronizes Easter with Passover according to the Christian calculation of Passover. In 2025, the Gregorian lunar month of Nisan began on March 31 (that is, at sunset on March 30). Its 14th day (Passover) was Sunday, April 13. Easter was the following Sunday, April 20.

However if by saying "it should be synced with the Jewish Passover" he means that it should be synchronized with the first day of Unleavened Bread according to the present-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar, I respond that there are reasons not to do this. The first-century Jewish writer Josephus wrote that in Herodian times, the Passover sacrifices were offered at the first full moon on or after the Spring equinox (Antiquities 3.248/3.10.5). The modern-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar, due to a slight solar drift in its calculation, in 3 years out of every 19 places the Feast of Unleavened Bread at the second full moon after the equinox. This happens in the 3rd, 11th and 14th years of the Gregorian 19-year cycle. The last time this happened was in the year 2024, the 11th year of the cycle. The next time it will happen is the year 2027. the 14th year of the cycle. The Gregorian paschalion tries, and for the most part succeeds, to celebrate Easter at the time of the first full moon on or after the equinox, according to the rule described by Josephus. I see no reason to follow the present-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar in its error of celebrating sometimes at the second full moon after the equinox.
Doesn't matter when Passover was observed in the ancient past, but in today's world, the Pasion and Easter for both the Catholic Church and Orthodox religions, should sync with the Jewish observance of Passover today.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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According to the Gospel of John Jesus was crucified on the 14th of Nisan and rose on the 16th. According to the synoptic Gospels Jesus was crucified on the 15th of Nisan and rose on the 17th. It was the Sunday of Unleavened Bread either way. Though John has theological reasons for setting the crucifixion on the 14th--it ties in with his motif of Jesus as the Lamb of God--I think John's date is historically more likely.
You and the late Pope Benedict XVI agree that John's gospel is probably more historically accurate.
 
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Mockingbird0

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Doesn't matter when Passover was observed in the ancient past, but in today's world, the Pasion and Easter for both the Catholic Church and Orthodox religions, should sync with the Jewish observance of Passover today.
You think we should use the present-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar notwithstanding its manifest flaws?. How would that work? Would Easter be the Sunday falling in the Rabbinic Jewish week of Unleavened Bread?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The traditional paschalion synchronizes Easter with Passover according to the Christian calculation of Passover. In 2025, the Gregorian lunar month of Nisan began on March 31 (that is, at sunset on March 30). Its 14th day (Passover) was Sunday, April 13. Easter was the following Sunday, April 20.
(Numbers 6-12
However if by saying "it should be synced with the Jewish Passover" he means that it should be synchronized with the first day of Unleavened Bread according to the present-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar, I respond that there are reasons not to do this. The first-century Jewish writer Josephus wrote that in Herodian times, the Passover sacrifices were offered at the first full moon on or after the Spring equinox (Antiquities 3.248/3.10.5). The modern-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar, due to a slight solar drift in its calculation, in 3 years out of every 19 places the Feast of Unleavened Bread at the second full moon after the equinox. This happens in the 3rd, 11th and 14th years of the Gregorian 19-year cycle. The last time this happened was in the year 2024, the 11th year of the cycle. The next time it will happen is the year 2027. the 14th year of the cycle. The Gregorian paschalion tries, and for the most part succeeds, to celebrate Easter at the time of the first full moon on or after the equinox, according to the rule described by Josephus. I see no reason to follow the present-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar in its error of celebrating sometimes at the second full moon after the equinox.
And yet under the laws of Pesakh, one CAN, if defiled by a dead body or other defilement, keep Pesakh 1 month later...Pesakh Sheni (Numbers 9:6-12).
 
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Mockingbird0

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And yet under the laws of Pesakh, one CAN, if defiled by a dead body or other defilement, keep Pesakh 1 month later...Pesakh Sheni (Numbers 9:6-12).
Yet when Rabbinic Jews today celebrate Unleavened Bread at the second full moon after the Spring equinox, it is not because of that law. It is because of a flaw in their calendar.

Christians have no need of that law, since we do not believe (except for the Eastern Orthodox in some circumstances) in ritual defilement.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Doesn't matter when Passover was observed in the ancient past, but in today's world, the Pasion and Easter for both the Catholic Church and Orthodox religions, should sync with the Jewish observance of Passover today.
The problem with this is that Pesakh can basically be on any day of the week while EO Pascha and Roman Easter is always on a Sunday. Also, since we now know the exact astronomical full moon date and time, the first Sunday after it would simply celebrate the resurrection.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Yet when Rabbinic Jews today celebrate Unleavened Bread at the second full moon after the Spring equinox, it is not because of that law. It is because of a flaw in their calendar.

Christians have no need of that law, since we do not believe (except for the Eastern Orthodox in some circumstances) in ritual defilement.
I am not saying anyone does, just that it has a provision for it and it has and can occur.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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You think we should use the present-day Rabbinic Jewish calendar notwithstanding its manifest flaws?. How would that work? Would Easter be the Sunday falling in the Rabbinic Jewish week of Unleavened Bread?
At least all three religions will celebrate Passover and Easter at the same time. I don't see anyone calling for a change in the Jewish calendar.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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The problem with this is that Pesakh can basically be on any day of the week while EO Pascha and Roman Easter is always on a Sunday. Also, since we now know the exact astronomical full moon date and time, the first Sunday after it would simply celebrate the resurrection.
But Passover and the passion observance and Easter will be the same week for Jewish, the EO and Catholic religions.

Anyway, it's not up to me. Stronger minds than mine are at work over it. :D
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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But Passover and the passion observance and Easter will be the same week for Jewish, the EO and Catholic religions.
Um, that is basically what I just said...
 
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