Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Studyman · 2025-11-08T11:27:04-0600

NBB said:
I know the Holy spirit, he doesn't get offended by not keeping the sabbath.
If find it bad, one christian say they have a little communion with God, and people say they are fake or worse.
Funny is about questions of the law they say you are fake.

I was only pointing out that the teaching you posted about the Law the Pharisees adhered to is not the same as the Jesus "of the Bible's" teachings about the Law the Pharisees adhered to.

I'm not judging what spirit would cause a man to trust man's teachings over that of the Christ "of the Bible".

I'm tasked with discerning the teaching as to whether its origins are wrought in God's Word called the Bible, or man's tradition.

And I have done that.

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-08T13:51:52-0600

2PhiloVoid said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree, sister SabbathBlessings.

No problem. God bless!

Ivan Hlavanda · 2025-11-08T19:03:45-0600

Soyeong said:
There are many examples of God's laws being followed without it being recorded when God first gave them such as with Genesis 39:9 where Joseph knew that it was a sin to commit adultery, so the fact that the first recorded instance of a command against adultery wasn't until Sinai does not give justification for assuming that there was no law against adultery prior to that, and the same is true for the Sabbath.

The Ten Commandments, which Sabbath is part of, were not given until Exodus 16.

Not Abraham, not Isaac, not Jacob, none of the patriarchs kept Sabbath (Fathers prior to Egypt did not keep the Sabbath: Deut 5:2-3 "The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today."). The first time the Sabbath is mentioned in some significant way is in the 16th chapter of Exodus, when God feeds the people manna from heaven as they wander in the wilderness.

And the manna comes every day except the Sabbath day, and the day before they get enough for that day, so that they don’t have to work on that day. And that gives them a little preview of what’s coming, because in the 20th chapter you have the Ten Commandments, and in the Ten Commandments, prescriptions are given that do set down laws for the Sabbath day. This is the first time any such laws have been given by God.

The Sabbath was not instituted for man in Genesis. It was instituted officially in Exodus, in the law of Moses. A further understanding of that comes from Exodus chapter 31. The Lord speaks to Moses in verse 12, and He says to him, “As for you, speak to the sons of Israel saying, ‘You shall surely observe My Sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.

“‘Therefore you are to observe the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the Sabbath, to celebrate the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

“‘It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever;’” - why? - “‘for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased, and was refreshed,’” - or rested. Here we find that Sabbath is a sign; it is a sign. That is to say, it points to something else. It is a symbol, connected to the Mosaic covenant.

When God made a covenant with Noah, He promised Noah that He would never destroy the world again, and God identified a sign. What was the sign of the Noahic covenant? Rainbow. When God made a covenant with Abraham, He made that covenant with Abraham and He designated a sign, and the sign of the Abrahamic covenant, participation among the covenant people Israel, was the sign of circumcision. And here you have in the Mosaic covenant another sign, and the sign this time is the Sabbath.

It was only a sign. Observing it with a duplicitous heart gained nothing. In fact, Isaiah 1:13 says, “Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and Sabbath.” The prophet Hosea pronounces a similar judgment on their hypocritical Sabbaths: “I will put an end to all her gaiety, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths.” It didn’t mean anything to observe it outwardly without a heart of love and devotion to God.

The Sabbath was a reminder of creation. The Sabbath was to remind the people of Israel that they had forfeited paradise; that man had forfeited paradise. The law said to them, “Obey this law and you will be blessed.” God said that repeatedly: “Obey this law and you will be blessed,” to show them that righteous behaviour would restore a taste of Eden’s paradise. Righteous behaviour would also point to a future, a future kingdom when paradise would be regained.

So, the Sabbath, every Sabbath that went by, when they rested, they were reminded of a perfect creation, a paradise of God dominated by righteousness, which had been forfeited by sin and could only be regained again by righteousness. God then institutes the seventh-day system - not for everybody in the world; in fact, specifically, it says, for Israel. Verse 17: “A sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever.” Every seventh day was a reminder that they were living in a fallen world. Every seventh day was a reminder that they had lost paradise.

The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Old Covenant. Because we are now under the New Covenant, we are no longer required to keep the sign of the Old Covenant. The New Testament nowhere commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but never about breaking the Sabbath.

The early church Fathers, from Ignitions to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship.

HARK! · 2025-11-08T21:39:15-0600

HIM said:
Definitions? No my friend, context, grammar and syntax. A Sabbath is a day of repose by definition.
It looks like you cited Strongs. That is nice. But in respect to studying the Greek it is so much more involved than a definition.

So many people mistakenly use Strong's as a dictionary. That is not it's stated purpose; no did Strong even adhere to his stated purpose.

The Strong's Deception

HARK! · 2025-11-08T22:17:20-0600

Hentenza said:
Do you not know what justification is? Do you not know what Christ work on the cross actually accomplished?

“But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe;

Nice dodge in lieu of addressing the content of my post.

I already explained what faith and belief (abstract English words) mean in the concrete Hebrew understanding.

Better translations would be fidelity and obedience.

I already provided the English definition of Righteousness in the post that you responded to.

I'll provided it again it case it was overlooked:

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

Definition of RIGHTEOUS

acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin; morally right or justifiable; arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

When one reads that verse in that context, the meaning is clear.

I didn't see the word justification in that verse; but let's look at that too.

1 Timothy

" 8 Now we are aware that the law is ideal if ever anyone is using it lawfully, 9 being aware of this, that law is not laid down for the just, yet it is for the lawless and insubordinate, the irreverent and sinners, the malign and profane, thrashers of fathers and thrashers of mothers, homicides, 10 paramours, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and if any other thing is opposing sound teaching, 11 in accord with the evangel of the glory of the happy God, with which I was entrusted."

(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

(CLV) Lk 5:32
I have not come to call the just, but sinners, to repentance.

(CLV) Lk 15:7
I am saying to you that thus there will be joy in heaven over one sinner repenting, more than over the ninety-nine just persons who have not need of repentance.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:7
Little children, let no one be deceiving you. He who is doing righteousness is just, according as He is just.

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man justified, and not by faith only.

HARK! · 2025-11-08T22:20:40-0600

Ivan Hlavanda said:
Not Abraham, not Isaac, not Jacob, none of the patriarchs kept Sabbath

So Adam didn't keep the Sabbath while he was in the garden with his father, who was keeping the Sabbath?

That seems completely implausible to me; but go ahead. Let's see your proof.

HARK! · 2025-11-08T22:28:23-0600

Hentenza said:
You go ahead and believe that. I don’t.

Deuteronomy 29:29 CJB
29 "Things which are hidden belong to ADONAI our God. But the things that have been revealed belong to us and our children forever, so that we can observe all the words of this Torah.

HARK! · 2025-11-08T22:33:20-0600

Hentenza said:
“But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. For you are all sons and daughters of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭23‬-‭29‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:23-29 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we | New American Standard Bible -

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we

bible.com

Galatians 3 (CLV)

1 O foolish Galatians! Who bewitches you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was graphically crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you get the spirit by works of law or by hearing of faith?

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

3 So foolish are you? Undertaking in spirit, are you now being completed in flesh? 4 So much did you suffer feignedly? Since, surely, it also is feignedly!" 5 He, then, who is supplying you with the spirit, and operating works of power among you-did you get the spirit by works of law or by the hearing of faith, 6 according as Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness?

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

7 Know, consequently, that those of faith, these are sons of Abraham." 8 Now the scripture, perceiving before that God is justifying the nations by faith, brings before an evangel to Abraham, that In you shall all the nations be blessed." 9 So that those of faith are being blessed together with believing Abraham. 10 For whoever are of works of law are under a curse, for it written that, Accursed is everyone who is not remaining in all things written in the scroll of the law to do them."

Where is this written?

(CLV) Dt 27:26
Cursed be the one who is not carrying out all the words of this law to do them. Then all the people will say: Amen!

Interesting. Let's read on.

The very next verse in this book:

(CLV) Dt 28:1
It will come to be if you should hearken, yea hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim, to observe and to do all His instructions which I am enjoining on you today, that Yahweh your Elohim will give you supremacy over all the nations of the earth.

(CLV) Dt 28:2
And all these blessings will come on you and overtake you in case you should hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim.

Paul isn't telling us anything new. Is it YHWH's law that is cursed?

(CLV) Ro 7:12
So that the law, indeed, is holy, and the precept holy and just and good.

Or is it disobedience to YHWH's law that brings the curses?

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone -repudiating Moses' LAW is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant iby which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

11 Now that in law no one is being justified with God is evident, for the just one by faith shall be living." 12 Now the law is not of faith, but who does them "shall be living in them."

(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

13 Christ reclaims us from the curse of the law, becoming a curse for our sakes, for it is written, Accursed is everyone hanging on a pole,

(CLV) 1Jn 2:1
My little children, these things am I writing to you that you may not be sinning. And if anyone should be sinning, we have an Entreater with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just.

14 that the blessing of Abraham may be coming to the nations in Christ Jesus,

Israel

that we

Israel

may be obtaining the promise of the spirit through faith." 15 Brethren

Israel

(I am saying this as a man), a human covenant likewise having been ratified, no one is repudiating or modifying it."

The covenant stands in its' entirety.

16 Now to Abraham the promises were declared, and to his Seed. He is not saying "And to seeds,as of many, but as of One: And to "your Seed,which is Christ."

How does Messiah define seed?

(CLV) Lk 8:11
"Now this is the parable: The seed is the word of God.

In the beginning was the word...

17 Now this am I saying: a covenant, having been ratified before by God, the law, having come four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not invalidate, 18 so as to nullify the promise. For if the enjoyment of the allotment is of law, it is no longer of promise. Yet God has graciously granted it to Abraham through the promise." 19 What, then, is the law? On behalf of transgressions was it added, until the Seed should come to Whom He has promised, being prescribed through messengers in the hand of a mediator." 20 Now there is no Mediator of one. Yet God is One. 21 Is the law, then, against the promises of God? May it not be coming to that! For if a law were given that is able to vivify, really, righteousness were out of law."

YHWH's law is not against grace.

22 But the scripture locks up all together under sin,

...because all have sinned.

The Law of Sin

that the promise out of Jesus Christ's faith may be given to those who are believing.

Faith

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed on Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

Obedience to YHWH's Law is the fruit of faith.

23 Now before the coming of faith we were garrisoned under law, being locked up together for the faith about to be revealed."

Under The Law of Sin and Death. See: Paul on the Law Romans Chapter 8

24 So that the law has become our escort to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

"Has become," not "used to be."

How do we come to Messiah?

Torah? The Law of Sin and Death?

25 Now, at the coming of faith, we are no longer under an escort,

Through faith YHWH works through us. This is demonstrated repeatedly throughout the Gospels.

Faith in him frees us from the bondage of the Law of Sin. See: Paul on the Law Romans Chapter 7

26 for you are all sons of God, through faith in Christ Jesus."

(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin, is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

27 For whoever are baptized into Christ, put on Christ, 28 in Whom there is no Jew nor yet Greek, there is no slave nor yet free, there is no male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus." 29 Now if you are Christ's, consequently you are of Abraham's seed, enjoyers of the allotment according to the promise."

Hallelu YAH!

HARK! · 2025-11-08T22:44:27-0600

Hentenza said:
Of course they will but that is not what the scriptures teach. No one can work for salvation. No one can earn justification.

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works man is being justified, and not by faith only.

(CLV) Jn 5:28
Marvel not at this, for coming is the hour in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His •voice,

(CLV) Jn 5:29
and those who do good shall go out into a resurrection of life, yet those who commit bad things, into a resurrection of judging.

(CLV) Re 20:12
And I perceived the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne. And scrolls were opened. And another scroll was opened which is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged by that which is written in the scrolls in accord with their acts.

(CLV) Re 20:13
And the sea gives up the dead in it, and death and the unseen give up the dead in them. And they were condemned, each in accord with their acts.

(CLV) Re 20:14
And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire.

(CLV) Re 22:11
Let the |injurer injure still; and let the filthy one be filthy still; and let the just one do righteousness still; and let the holy one be hallowed still."

(CLV) Re 22:12
"Lo~! I am coming swiftly, and My wage is with Me, to pay each one as his work is.

(CLV) 2Pt 1:10
Wherefore, rather, brethren, endeavor through ideal acts to confirm your calling and choice; for, doing these things you should under no circumstances be tripping at any time.

The words "ideal acts" (good works) are found in every known manuscript. However, because Erasmus left those words out, almost 500 years ago, they appear in very few translations.

The next verse is key.

(CLV) 2Pt 1:11
For thus will be richly supplied to you the entrance into the eonian kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

.Mikha'el. · 2025-11-08T22:49:27-0600

I tend to think they're doing it wrong, but don't look at it through the lens of sin or not.

HARK! · 2025-11-08T22:49:30-0600

Hentenza said:
All of the Torah has been fulfilled in Christ through His sacrifice on the cross.

That is not true according to Yahshua himself.

Here are some of his last words here on earth, after he was risen:

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

As I have already made it abundantly clear; it was not Yah's eternal Torah that was nailed to the death stake. It was dogma.

HARK! · 2025-11-08T23:06:10-0600

Hentenza said:
How does this help you? Nothing here about Israel being the church.

Here you go.:

(CLV) Lv 10:6
Then Moses said to Aaron and to Eleazar and to Ithamar, his sons: Do not dishevel your heads' hair, and do not |rip your garments so that you may not die, lest He be wrathful with the whole congregation. Yet your brothers, all the house of Israel, they may lament over the burning which Yahweh has burned.

Again, Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.

The renewed covenant is with Israel.

Can you acknowledge that you have read this?

This isn't the first time that I have pointed this out in this thread; and you have yet to refute it.

Soyeong · 2025-11-08T23:09:35-0600

Ivan Hlavanda said:
The Ten Commandments, which Sabbath is part of, were not given until Exodus 16.

Joseph knew that it was a sin to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, which is one of the Ten Commandments, so your claim is demonstrably false.

Ivan Hlavanda said:
Not Abraham, not Isaac, not Jacob, none of the patriarchs kept Sabbath (Fathers prior to Egypt did not keep the Sabbath: Deut 5:2-3 "The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today."). The first time the Sabbath is mentioned in some significant way is in the 16th chapter of Exodus, when God feeds the people manna from heaven as they wander in the wilderness.

God made the New Covenant with us that he did not make with the ancient Israelites, but that does not mean that any of the commands in the New Convent were not previously given, so the fact that God made a covenant with the ancient Israelites that He did not make with their fathers does not mean that any of its commands were not previously given.

Ivan Hlavanda said:
And the manna comes every day except the Sabbath day, and the day before they get enough for that day, so that they don’t have to work on that day. And that gives them a little preview of what’s coming, because in the 20th chapter you have the Ten Commandments, and in the Ten Commandments, prescriptions are given that do set down laws for the Sabbath day. This is the first time any such laws have been given by God.

The fact that Exodus 20 is the first recorded instance of God commanding against adultery does not mean that it is the first time that God commanded against it.

Ivan Hlavanda said:
The Sabbath was not instituted for man in Genesis. It was instituted officially in Exodus, in the law of Moses. A further understanding of that comes from Exodus chapter 31. The Lord speaks to Moses in verse 12, and He says to him, “As for you, speak to the sons of Israel saying, ‘You shall surely observe My Sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.

“‘Therefore you are to observe the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the Sabbath, to celebrate the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

“‘It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever;’” - why? - “‘for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased, and was refreshed,’” - or rested. Here we find that Sabbath is a sign; it is a sign. That is to say, it points to something else. It is a symbol, connected to the Mosaic covenant.

When God made a covenant with Noah, He promised Noah that He would never destroy the world again, and God identified a sign. What was the sign of the Noahic covenant? Rainbow. When God made a covenant with Abraham, He made that covenant with Abraham and He designated a sign, and the sign of the Abrahamic covenant, participation among the covenant people Israel, was the sign of circumcision. And here you have in the Mosaic covenant another sign, and the sign this time is the Sabbath.

The fact that God gave the Sabbath as a sign does not mean that it was not previously a sign. If you think that the things that the Sabbath is a sign for are true, then you should live in a way that testifies about their truth by following Christ's example of keeping the Sabbath holy rather than a way that bears false witness against those things.

Ivan Hlavanda said:
It was only a sign. Observing it with a duplicitous heart gained nothing. In fact, Isaiah 1:13 says, “Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and Sabbath.” The prophet Hosea pronounces a similar judgment on their hypocritical Sabbaths: “I will put an end to all her gaiety, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths.” It didn’t mean anything to observe it outwardly without a heart of love and devotion to God.

In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His children to love Him and obey His commandments, so obedience to God has always been a matter of the heart.

Ivan Hlavanda said:
The Sabbath was a reminder of creation. The Sabbath was to remind the people of Israel that they had forfeited paradise; that man had forfeited paradise. The law said to them, “Obey this law and you will be blessed.” God said that repeatedly: “Obey this law and you will be blessed,” to show them that righteous behaviour would restore a taste of Eden’s paradise. Righteous behaviour would also point to a future, a future kingdom when paradise would be regained.

The Bible states that the Sabbath is a memorial of when God rested after Creation, but it does not say that it is a memorial that Israel had forfeited paradise.

Ivan Hlavanda said:
So, the Sabbath, every Sabbath that went by, when they rested, they were reminded of a perfect creation, a paradise of God dominated by righteousness, which had been forfeited by sin and could only be regained again by righteousness. God then institutes the seventh-day system - not for everybody in the world; in fact, specifically, it says, for Israel. Verse 17: “A sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever.” Every seventh day was a reminder that they were living in a fallen world. Every seventh day was a reminder that they had lost paradise.

In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, and without hope and God in this world, all of which is in accordance with Gentiles at one time not being doers of God's law, but through faith in Christ all of that is no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God, all of which in accordance with Gentiles becoming does of God's law, so Gentiles become joined to Israel through faith in Christ.

Ivan Hlavanda said:
The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Old Covenant. Because we are now under the New Covenant, we are no longer required to keep the sign of the Old Covenant. The New Testament nowhere commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.

In Matthew 4:!5-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which includes repenting from breaking the Sabbath. Jesus also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6), which includes keeping the Sabbath holy. So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey God's law by word and by example and the reason why he established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following God's law (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Ivan Hlavanda said:
Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but never about breaking the Sabbath.

Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Deuteronomy 8:3), so he affirmed God as being an authoritative source, which includes affirming what God spoke in Deuteronomy 5:12-15 in regard to keeping the Sabbath holy, and we have no need for Paul to repeat everything that God has spoken in order to know that we should still obey God.

Ivan Hlavanda said:
The early church Fathers, from Ignitions to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship.

So when God has commanded something and the early church commentators taught to rebel against what God commanded, then who has the highest authority and which one should you follow?

HARK! · 2025-11-08T23:25:55-0600

Hentenza said:
Are you now into pagan gods?

Of course not! Please refrain from such inflammatory questions.

I study syncretism so that I can better obey the Torah.

Yah tells us not to worship him in the ways of the heathen, such as celebrating Ishtar the fertility goddess, in the spring, instead of Pesach.

Ishtar, Asteroth, and Venus, are all later manifestations of Semiramis, the wife of Nimrod (the sun god), and the mother of Tammuz. She claimed to have come from the moon in and egg (a symbol of fertility); and her son Tammuz (the great hunter, and reincarnation of Nimrod) had an affinity for bunnies (another symbol of fertility.)

Constantine was a sun worshiper until his dying day. His main objective for pushing Christianity was to unite Rome.

I learn to recognize the way of the heathen; so that I can reject it.

HARK! · 2025-11-08T23:36:04-0600

Hentenza said:
Yep and Israel rejected the messiah so the branches were cut off.

Israel did not, nor does not, reject Messiah. For example Ya`aqov Ha-Tsaddiq, was the earthly leader of Israel after Yahshua had ascended.

HARK! · 2025-11-09T00:36:09-0600

Soyeong said:
Joseph knew that it was a sin to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, which is one of the Ten Commandments, so your claim is demonstrably false.

That is one of my favorite examples of where we see Yah's eternal Torah being observed before Moses.

There are many such examples.

In the beginning was the word.

HIM · 2025-11-09T06:47:59-0600

HARK! said:
So many people mistakenly use Strong's as a dictionary. That is not it's stated purpose; no did Strong even adhere to his stated purpose.

The Strong's Deception

I think it was in the 90's when I realized Strong's work needed work. It has it's errors.

But it is a nice means to which will help get one started in an informative personal devotion. I like it's simplicity and still use it today. but I prefer the BDB, AHLB for the Hebrew and the BDAG, LSJ, Thayer and a few others for the Greek. All of which need to be scrutinized. Because at times, they go from being Lexicons, to being theological commentaries. Huge red flag for me that many miss or ignore due to the status of the Scholar.

However, all the word definition can be for nought unless one studies the grammar and syntax within a passage's given context.
Benner, Mounce, Robertson and Wallace to name a few have helped me in that journey. But once again they also have a habit of mixing theology within their work, So they also need weighed accordingly also.

HIM · 2025-11-09T06:56:23-0600

Soyeong said:
Joseph knew that it was a sin to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, which is one of the Ten Commandments, so your claim is demonstrably false.

HARK! said:
That is one of my favorite examples of where we see Yah's eternal Torah being observed before Moses.

There are many such examples.

In the beginning was the word.

Since the beginning of time,
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

HIM · 2025-11-09T07:51:09-0600

2PhiloVoid said:
This sort of response doesn't sound to me like you're really wanting or expecting an answer from me, nor that you are willing to have a bilateral exchange of ideas and/or intepretations......

We'll just have to agree to disagree, sister SabbathBlessings.

This sort of response sounds to me like you really do not have answer to what was shared because your beliefs have been disproven. So rather than recant you resort to this pleasantry.

Hentenza · 2025-11-09T07:57:56-0600

HARK! said:
Nice dodge in lieu of addressing the content of my post.

Non dodge whatsoever. My post was quite long and contained several verses but you only quoted a couple of sentences and do not address my argument. So who is dodging.

HARK! said:
I already explained what faith and belief (abstract English words) mean in the concrete Hebrew understanding.

And you continue to get it wrong.

HARK! said:
Better translations would be fidelity and obedience.

I already provided the English definition of Righteousness in the post that you responded to.

I'll provided it again it case it was overlooked:

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

Definition of RIGHTEOUS

acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin; morally right or justifiable; arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

When one reads that verse in that context, the meaning is clear.

It is quite clear but you are arguing the wrong side of the verse.

“But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe;

The verse is very clear that APART from the law the righteousness of God has been revealed. Did you get that part “apart from the law”?

Your secular definition of righteousness falls in light of the redemptive sacrifice of our Lord.

HARK! said:
I didn't see the word justification in that verse; but let's look at that too.

1 Timothy

" 8 Now we are aware that the law is ideal if ever anyone is using it lawfully, 9 being aware of this, that law is not laid down for the just, yet it is for the lawless and insubordinate, the irreverent and sinners, the malign and profane, thrashers of fathers and thrashers of mothers, homicides, 10 paramours, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and if any other thing is opposing sound teaching, 11 in accord with the evangel of the glory of the happy God, with which I was entrusted."

(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

(CLV) Lk 5:32
I have not come to call the just, but sinners, to repentance.

(CLV) Lk 15:7
I am saying to you that thus there will be joy in heaven over one sinner repenting, more than over the ninety-nine just persons who have not need of repentance.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:7
Little children, let no one be deceiving you. He who is doing righteousness is just, according as He is just.

This is about the birth of John the Baptist. How do these verses help you? Jesus was not even born yet so of course they were still under the law. Proper application of the elements of hermeneutics is important.

HARK! said:
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man justified, and not by faith only.

“For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3‬:‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

bible.com

Are you suggesting that Paul and James are in tension? You are divorcing the context from the verse to attempt to teach what it does not teach?

“Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

James 2:21-23 Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the S | New American Standard Bible - NAS

Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the S

bible.com

“For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, And whose sins have been covered. “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.” Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4‬:‭2‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 4:2-8 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” Now to | New American Standard Bible - NASB

For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” Now to

bible.com

Are these verses contradicting each other? Of course not. It is your interpretation that creates the tension that should not be there. In general, Paul teaches justification while James teaches sanctification. Paul is speaking of God’s legal declaration of us as righteous as Christ’s righteousness is applied to our account. James is using the word justified to mean “being demonstrated and proved.”

James 2:14-26 is about proving the genuineness of your faith by what you do. A genuine salvation experience by faith in Jesus Christ will inevitably result in good works (Eph. 2:10) but not the works of the law.

Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?