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The 2025 Government Shutdown Thread

Valletta

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...is something that would carry more weight if you didn't need to post links to Breibart. Why...I have absolutely no idea. It's almost as all you want to do is admit your argument has no worth. Or at least someone else's argument.
The Breitbart example of reporting is one that CNN, the NY Times, and the Washington Post should strive to emulate. Rather than put their own commentary and slant on what Fetterman said, Breitbart provides a lengthy quotation and an actual six minute video so people can see the truth for themselves.
 
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A2SG

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The person in the video didn't say the government is providing health insurance. He said the government is regulating affordability and accessibility.

Question: do socialist governments regulate affordability?
Capitalist governments do, too. Regulation is not exclusive to socialism, nor did the ACA create the practice of regulation. Many industries are regulate by law in the US.

AI Overview

Yes, a primary characteristic and goal of socialist governments is to regulate affordability for citizens, particularly concerning basic needs like housing, healthcare, and food. This is typically achieved through mechanisms such as:

Price Controls: In purely socialist economies, governments set prices for goods and services, rather than allowing market forces (supply and demand) to determine them. The goal is to ensure universal access and prevent excessive costs.
The ACA does not set prices. Sure, it regulates them in certain ways, but the law does require private insurers to charge a set amount for health insurance. And, again, regulations exist in other industries as well, so the ACA did not create them.

Central Planning and State Ownership: The government owns or controls the means of production and distribution, allowing it to direct resources to meet societal needs rather than profit motives. For example, in housing, central planning ensures continuous construction to meet demand and maintain affordability, often resulting in high homeownership rates and low homelessness.
Under the ACA, the government does not own the health insurance industry. Health insurance is provided through private companies.

Subsidies and Social Welfare Programs: Socialist systems often provide essential goods and services, such as education, healthcare, and sometimes housing and food, at no cost or highly subsidized rates to citizens. These are considered basic rights rather than commodities.
Yes, the government does subsidize health insurance for certain people who get their health insurance through the ACA marketplace. But only in those cases.

Plus which, the US government subsidizes many other industries as well, through direct subsidies and tax breaks, including agriculture, transportation and energy. In fact, the US government provides subsidies to exceptionally profitable industries like the fossil fuel industry, a whopping 34 billion per year.

Elimination of Profit Motive: By removing or severely limiting the profit motive in key sectors, the government aims to reduce costs that would otherwise go to investors or landlords. For instance, the rental sector might be transformed into socially owned homes to remove the "cash nexus" from housing.
The ACA does not remove the ability for private health insurers to make a profit. In fact, in 2023, the for-profit health insurance industry generated $25 billion in profit industry-wide. Though, to be fair, in 2024 those profits did decrease to only $9 billion.

The profit motive has not been eliminated.

Guaranteed Employment/Income: By ensuring employment and establishing wage policies, socialist systems aim to provide a safety net that guarantees citizens have the financial means to meet their basic needs.
Nothing here pertains to the ACA.

In mixed economies with socialist elements, the government may implement policies like rent control, minimum wage laws, or subsidized public options for certain services to improve affordability and reduce economic inequality.
Yes, the US does have some elements derived from socialist ideals: medicare/medicaid among them, but these predate the ACA.

So, other than that the ACA provides subsidies for those with health insurance provided through private insurers purchased through the marketplace, there is no element of socialism in the ACA. Which really shouldn't be surprising, considering the Heritage Foundation came up with the idea in the first place.

-- A2SG, that the best you got?
 
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Bradskii

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The Breitbart example of reporting is one that CNN, the NY Times, and the Washington Post should strive to emulate. Rather than put their own commentary and slant on what Fetterman said, Breitbart provides a lengthy quotation and an actual six minute video so people can see the truth for themselves.
Gee, thanks. I'll use them all the time from now on! If only I'd investigated them earlier and decided that they epitomize the very best in unbiased journalism just like you did!
 
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A2SG

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Speaker Johnson is lying. Surprise, surprise.

There has been a compromise proposal recently proposed that is limited to health care subsidies continuing past the current expiration date and just a few other expenditures, along with a proposal for a bipartisan committee to negotiate a longer-term solution. The GOP rejected it entirely.

Clearly, Republicans aren't willing to compromise. Which does not make Democrats hopeful that they will do so if they cave and agree to pass the current continuing resolution which will end health care subsidies.

-- A2SG, gee, who could have predicted that?
 
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Valletta

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Gee, thanks. I'll use them all the time from now on! If only I'd investigated them earlier and decided that they epitomize the very best in unbiased journalism just like you did!
Excellent!
 
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Servus

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Speaker Johnson is lying. Surprise, surprise.

There has been a compromise proposal recently proposed that is limited to health care subsidies continuing past the current expiration date and just a few other expenditures, along with a proposal for a bipartisan committee to negotiate a longer-term solution. The GOP rejected it entirely.

Clearly, Republicans aren't willing to compromise. Which does not make Democrats hopeful that they will do so if they cave and agree to pass the current continuing resolution which will end health care subsidies.
The Democrats need to sign the CR to get the government reopened. Them only signing it after this that and the other demands are met is unacceptable.
 
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A2SG

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The Democrats need to sign the CR to get the government reopened.
And a lot of people will lose the subsidies that make their health care affordable. The Democrats are fighting to prevent Republicans from ensuring that health insurance purchased through the ACA marketplace will go up. If they agree to that CR, there is no reason to believe Republicans will negotiate in good faith afterward, and every reason to believe they won't.

Them only signing it after this that and the other demands are met is unacceptable.
In other words, the GOP refuses to negotiate. They have backed the Democrats into a corner, and they're fighting back with the only tools they have available.

Caving would guarantee that health insurance purchased through the ACA would be a lot more expensive. The people who need that health insurance are who Democrats are fighting for. And it's the Republicans who are determined to increase health care costs for those people.

-- A2SG, that's where we're at....
 
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Valletta

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Speaker Johnson is lying. Surprise, surprise.

There has been a compromise proposal recently proposed that is limited to health care subsidies continuing past the current expiration date and just a few other expenditures, along with a proposal for a bipartisan committee to negotiate a longer-term solution. The GOP rejected it entirely.

Clearly, Republicans aren't willing to compromise. Which does not make Democrats hopeful that they will do so if they cave and agree to pass the current continuing resolution which will end health care subsidies.

-- A2SG, gee, who could have predicted that?
Democrats are demanding the COVID bonus subsidies that the Biden administration put in place to be extended for another year. Households that made over half a million dollars were eligible, and those bonus subsidies went to the insurance companies. The bottom line is that Democrats are now demanding our hard earned taxpayer dollars be provided to the insurance companies and are willing to make the American people suffer. They are holding our nation hostage, flights are being cancelled, workers are not being paid, people who need food are being denied government benefits. This is not normal government business nor normal negotiation. Changes to healthcare should be discussed and debated in Congressional hearings and meetings.
 
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A2SG

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Democrats are demanding the COVID bonus subsidies that the Biden administration put in place to be extended for another year. Households that made over half a million dollars were eligible, and those bonus subsidies went to the insurance companies.
Well, yeah. That's how paying for insurance works, money goes to the insurance company.

Don't get me started on insurance companies. I'm all for eliminating the entire industry and just going with a single payer plan, but that's another discussion entirely.

The bottom line is that Democrats are now demanding our hard earned taxpayer dollars be provided to the insurance companies and are willing to make the American people suffer.
Health care being provided through private health insurance companies is how our health care system has been set up for a while now. The ACA didn't change that.

If you don't like the current health care system that relies on health insurance, I'm with ya. Drop it and adopt a single payer system. I'd vote for that in a heartbeat.

They are holding our nation hostage, flights are being cancelled, workers are not being paid, people who need food are being denied government benefits. This is not normal government business nor normal negotiation. Changes to healthcare should be discussed and debated in Congressional hearings and meetings.
They should be, but given that the Republicans have not been willing to negotiate for those changes in good faith, Democrats have no reason to believe they will if Democrats cave and allow health care subsidies to end, as Republicans want.

Right now, as it stands, continuing the shutdown is pretty much the only leverage Democrats have, so we can't blame them for using it.

-- A2SG, you may want to demand that your republican representatives, and their president, start negotiating in good faith for a change....
 
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Servus

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And a lot of people will lose the subsidies that make their health care affordable. The Democrats are fighting to prevent Republicans from ensuring that health insurance purchased through the ACA marketplace will go up. If they agree to that CR, there is no reason to believe Republicans will negotiate in good faith afterward, and every reason to believe they won't.


In other words, the GOP refuses to negotiate. They have backed the Democrats into a corner, and they're fighting back with the only tools they have available.

Caving would guarantee that health insurance purchased through the ACA would be a lot more expensive. The people who need that health insurance are who Democrats are fighting for. And it's the Republicans who are determined to increase health care costs for those people.
The democrats are trying to coerce the republicans into giving into their demands by holding the CR hostage so to speak.
 
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A2SG

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The democrats are trying to coerce the republicans into giving into their demands by holding the CR hostage so to speak.
And what are the Republicans doing?

-- A2SG, not negotiating in good faith, that's for sure....
 
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And what are the Republicans doing?
Refusing to pay the ransom. Or negotiate with extortionist (so to speak).

Ransom.png


A prominent case of refusing to negotiate with extortionists is the 1973 Khartoum embassy siege, where a statement by U.S. President Richard Nixon said that the U.S. would not negotiate. This solidified the "no concessions" policy for the U.S. - Google
 
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A2SG

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Refusing to pay the ransom. Or negotiate with extortionist (so to speak).

View attachment 372880

A prominent case of refusing to negotiate with extortionists is the 1973 Khartoum embassy siege, where a statement by U.S. President Richard Nixon said that the U.S. would not negotiate. This solidified the "no concessions" policy for the U.S. - Google
So much for the idea that Congress is supposed to work FOR the people, rather than against them, huh?

-- A2SG, unless you can justify how intentionally making health care less affordable is for the people....
 
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Servus

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So much for the idea that Congress is supposed to work FOR the people, rather than against them, huh?
Refusing to negotiate under extortion type coercion has nothing to do with being against the people. That's just worn out left-wing propaganda. "The democrats are for the poor, and the republicans are only for the billionaires". Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. The democrat politicians also have swampland and a bridge to sell you.
 
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NxNW

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Refusing to negotiate under extortion type coercion has nothing to do with being against the people. That's just worn out left-wing propaganda. "The democrats are for the poor, and the republicans are only for the billionaires". Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. The democrat politicians also have swampland and a bridge to sell you.
The GOP is trying to take away healthcare, and the Dems are trying to preserve it, while the GOP is concealing Trump's presence in the Epstein files.. It really is that simple.
 
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A2SG

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Refusing to negotiate under extortion type coercion has nothing to do with being against the people.
It does in this case. Republicans are holding firm on ending health care subsidies for people who need them and refusing to negotiate on it.

That's just worn out left-wing propaganda. "The democrats are for the poor, and the republicans are only for the billionaires". Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. The democrat politicians also have swampland and a bridge to sell you.
Then tell me how Republicans are working for "the poor" by refusing to even consider extending health care subsidies while their bill cuts taxes largely benefitting those billionaires you mentioned.

-- A2SG, go ahead, make your case.....
 
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The GOP is trying to take away healthcare, and the Dems are trying to preserve it, while the GOP is concealing Trump's presence in the Epstein files.. It really is that simple.
That's the fairy tale that's being told.
 
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Servus

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It does in this case. Republicans are holding firm on ending health care subsidies for people who need them and refusing to negotiate on it.


Then tell me how Republicans are working for "the poor" by refusing to even consider extending health care subsidies while their bill cuts taxes largely benefitting those billionaires you mentioned.
The Democrats are refusing to sign the CR to reopen the government, even if that means SNAP is cut off and 1.5 million government employees go without pay.

The Republicans never said they refuse health care. They are however refusing to give into blackmail.
 
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