Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Hentenza · Friday at 8:19 PM

HARK! said:
The word "continually" was added.

It's not in the Greek manuscripts.

John didn't say that.

Maybe this will help:

(CLV) 1Jn 3:6
Everyone who is remaining in Him is not sinning. Everyone who is sinning sees Him not, neither knows Him.

There is no sin in Yahshua.

Your theory here is problematic since John tells us in 1 John 1 that all believers sin. I think I’m going to go with the scholarship here. Not to mention that the discussion of sinless perfection is against CF rules.

Hentenza · Friday at 8:23 PM

Studyman said:
So in your religion,

The only religion allowed to post in this forum is Christianity and in particular Christians that agree with CF statements of faith. Are you suggesting that I am not a Christian?

HARK! · Friday at 8:36 PM

Hentenza said:
Everything that you don’t agree with is a poor translation to you. I’m going to actually follow the scholarship rather than your opinion.

Everything? Are you sure that you want to go with an absolute statement? I try to avoid them; as I do not have absolute knowledge. In my opinion that is reserved for Yah. If one goes adding words that change the meaning of scripture; I would call that a poor translation.

Regarding what I said about the "law," that's not my opinion. That's a fact; and any so called scholar who hasn't figured that out, is not worthy of his title.

We're entitled to our own personal opinions; but we are not entitled to our own personal facts.

This is a quote of Jer. 31:33:

(CLV) Hb 10:16
"`This is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with them after those days,' the Lord is saying, `imparting My laws (νομους nomous, LAWS, G3551) to their hearts, I shall be inscribing them on their comprehension also,

(CLV) Jer 31:33
For this is the covenant which I shall contract with the house of Israel after those days, averring is Yahweh: I will put My law (תורתי)(, thurthi, law-of·me, H8451) within them, And I shall write it on their heart; I will become their Elohim, And they shall become My people.

Strong's Hebrew: 8451. תּוֹרָה (torah)

Studyman · Friday at 8:37 PM

Hentenza said:
You continued to pull at straws to justify putting the Christian back under the bondage of the law. Christ nailed the law to the cross. There is no dichotomy with Paul’s teachings.

1 Cor. 7: 19 Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Rom. 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind "I myself serve the law of God"; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom. 2: 13 (For not "the hearers of the law" are just before God, but "the doers" of the law "shall be justified".

The Mainstream Preachers of Paul's Time cherry picked scriptures, "Omitted the weightier matters of the Law", and were, as Malachi teaches, "Partial in the Law", and this is how they deceived so many. Eve, in the very beginning, was deceived by a voice "who professed to know God, and even quoted "SOME" Of God's Word to deceive Eve.

Modern religions do the same to preserve and promote their man-made Judgments, high days, sabbaths and traditions.

It seems prudent to consider ALL that Paul, Peter and Jesus teaches, as an "Armor" so to speak, to protect us from the "Many" deceivers, who Jesus said "Come in His Name".

Probably the most insidious lie ever promoted by this world's religious system, is that God's LAWS were against, and condemned Jesus, Paul and the Church of God, so Jesus had to come and nail GODS Laws to the cross to save mankind from God and His evil laws.

But when a man hungers and thirsts for God's Righteousness, and studies the Holy Scriptures for himself, he will find that it was the Commandments of men the religious rulers of the city of David and the Temple of Solomon taught for doctrines, the led men astray.

I advocate that a person considers all of the Holy Scriptures that Paul said were trustworthy, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, "throughly furnished" unto all good works.

If a person studies in Faith/Belief, I am confident that they will find, as others have found, that the implication of modern religious businesses and sects of this world, that it was God's Laws that led men astray, is absurd. And that if a person would simply Glorify God "AS GOD", and "Yield themselves" servants to obey Him, as Paul teaches, they too will receive the Holy Spirit that Peter teaches, from the Spirit of Christ, that God gives to those who obey HIM.

HARK! · Friday at 8:41 PM

Hentenza said:
Your theory here is problematic since John tells us in 1 John 1 that all believers sin.

Instead of falling back on Argumentum ad Verecundiam and Bare Assertion fallacies; why not post the scripture to prove your assertion?

Studyman · Friday at 8:53 PM

Hentenza said:
The only religion allowed to post in this forum is Christianity and in particular Christians that agree with CF statements of faith. Are you suggesting that I am not a Christian?

There are dozens of religious sects under the banner of "Christian". My understanding is that they are all allowed to post questions and share philosophies on this forum. I am just interested in where your philosophy came from, that promotes that Ananias and Sapphira were not guilty of Transgressing God's commandments.

Clearly you are offended by the question. Therefore I respectfully withdraw it and move on.

Good night sir.

Hentenza · Friday at 9:03 PM

HARK! said:
Instead of falling back on Argumentum ad Verecundiam and Bare Assertion fallacies; why not post the scripture to prove your assertion?

I have and you ignored it. Post 246

Hentenza · Friday at 9:09 PM

Studyman said:
There are dozens of religious sects under the banner of "Christian". My understanding is that they are all allowed to post questions and share philosophies on this forum. I am just interested in where your philosophy came from, that promotes that Ananias and Sapphira were not guilty of Transgressing God's commandments.

Tell me, what commandment did they violate? Does the biblical story reveals as such?

Studyman said:
Clearly you are offended by the question.

I’m not offended at the question just miffed that you would ask “in my religion” given that I am here in a Christian website.

PloverWing · Friday at 9:13 PM

Hentenza said:
It wasn’t called Palestine until Hadrian renamed the province of Judea to Syria Palestinia in 135 CE after the Bar Kockba revolt, an act intended to sever Jewish ties to the land. Those that yelled for Jesus to be crucified were Jews.

Agreed, most of the people in the mob were Jews. Most of the followers of Jesus were Jews. Most of the indifferent bystanders were Jews. Most of the people in all the gospel stories were Jews (with the notable exception of the Romans, who did the actual crucifying).

My only objection here is to the claim that "the majority of the Jews voted to have Jesus crucified". I don't see that supported in the gospel stories.

Hentenza · Friday at 9:15 PM

HARK! said:
Everything? Are you sure that you want to go with an absolute statement?

You are right not all the time but quite a few times. You know, both of us have an interlinear.

HARK! · Friday at 9:24 PM

Hentenza said:
I have and you ignored it. Post 246

That's not true. I responded to that post in post 250.

Let's not make this personal.

Hentenza said:
“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

In that same book John says that if we do inadvertently sin, to get right back on the path.

How would you apply that verse to this verse, regarding willfully breaking the Sabbath?:

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is not longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

Hentenza · Friday at 9:26 PM

PloverWing said:
Agreed, most of the people in the mob were Jews. Most of the followers of Jesus were Jews. Most of the indifferent bystanders were Jews. Most of the people in all the gospel stories were Jews (with the notable exception of the Romans, who did the actual crucifying).

My only objection here is to the claim that "the majority of the Jews voted to have Jesus crucified". I don't see that supported in the gospel stories.

The Jewish religious leaders were responsible for bringing Christ to the Romans and accusing Him of capital crimes. The mob was given the choice of who to execute and they chose Jesus. This had the same effect as Israel in general rejecting the messiah. Jesus grieving and lamentation for Jerusalem in Matt. 23 is a case in point.
.

Hentenza · Friday at 9:35 PM

HARK! said:
That's not true. I responded to that post in post 250.

Let's not make this personal.

Not making anything personal. This is just a conversation between professed Christians.

In your post 250 you did not address the verses that I posted but simply added your own. In fact you only quoted one sentence of my posts.

HARK! said:
In that same book John says that if you do inadvertently sin, to get right back on the path.

How would you apply that verse to this verse, regarding willfully breaking the Sabbath?:

You can’t break what no longer applies. The sabbath is not required of the Christian. Our rest is in Jesus.

HARK! said:
(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is not longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

“But we are not among those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith for the safekeeping of the soul.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10‬:‭39‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 10:39 But we are not among those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith for the safekeeping of the soul. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

But we are not among those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith for the safekeeping of the soul.

bible.com

Sinning willfully would amount to rejection of the Holy Spirit since it is He who convicts not the law.

HARK! · Friday at 9:48 PM

Hentenza said:
You can’t break what no longer applies. The sabbath is not required of the Christian

Matthew 5:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Exodus 31:16 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

16 The people of Isra’el are to keep the Shabbat, to observe Shabbat through all their generations as a perpetual covenant.

2 Kings 17:37
Complete Jewish Bible
37 You are to observe forever the laws, rulings, Torah and mitzvah which he wrote for you. You are not to fear other gods,

Deuteronomy 29:29 CJB
29 "Things which are hidden belong to ADONAI our God. But the things that have been revealed belong to us and our children forever, so that we can observe all the words of this Torah.

Hentenza · Friday at 9:59 PM

HARK! said:
Matthew 5:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

You missed verse 17.

““Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 5:17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.

bible.com

“Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭19‬:‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 19:30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

bible.com

Jesus fulfilled (completed) the law.

HARK! said:
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

These commandments turned into two commandments because it exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees.

“Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 22:40 Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.”

bible.com

HARK! said:
Exodus 31:16 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

16 The people of Isra’el are to keep the Shabbat, to observe Shabbat through all their generations as a perpetual covenant.

2 Kings 17:37
Complete Jewish Bible
37 You are to observe forever the laws, rulings, Torah and mitzvah which he wrote for you. You are not to fear other gods,

Deuteronomy 29:29 CJB
29 "Things which are hidden belong to ADONAI our God. But the things that have been revealed belong to us and our children forever, so that we can observe all the words of this Torah.

All pertaining Israel not the church. Even the verses you posted explicitly state that it was addressing Israel. The church is not Israel.

HARK! · Friday at 10:02 PM

Hentenza said:
Sinning willfully would amount to rejection of the Holy Spirit since it is He who convicts not the law.

(CLV) Jn 16:7
"But I am telling you the truth. It is |expedient for you that I may be coming away, for if I should not be coming away, the consoler will not be coming to you. Now if I should be gone, I will |send him to you.

(CLV) Jn 16:8
And, coming, that will be exposing the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judging:

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

Definition of RIGHTEOUS

acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin; morally right or justifiable; arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

HARK! · Friday at 10:13 PM

Hentenza said:
““Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The Torah is forever. We have been over this.

Hentenza said:
Jesus fulfilled (completed) the law.

He called us to follow him.

Ask any practicing Jew if he fulfills the law; and he will answer in the affirmative.

All of the Torah has not been fulfilled; but we are to fulfill our part, in our time.

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

The Torah was not finished when Yahshua was killed. It was dogma (doctrine of men) that was nailed to the stake.

The Torah is forever. Yah said it. Yahshua repeated it.

I will trust in them over the doctrine of men.

Gregory Thompson · Friday at 10:17 PM

Hentenza said:
I’ve had several people that keep the sabbath argue that the sabbath is a moral commandment, therefore, those that do not worship on Saturday are sinning and consequently living in sin. The poll is self explanatory. If you choose maybe please post why.

Be blessed.

Aren't you supposed to rest and do nothing on a Saturday? The Sunday ritual in many interpretations is work.

Besides, we are free to live any day unto the Lord now, not just one out of seven.

PloverWing · Friday at 10:18 PM

Studyman said:
I agree with your last statement. The teaching that the Pharisees were adherents to the Laws God revealed to us from Genesis through Deuteronomy, although popular in this world's religious sects and businesses, are proven by the Inspired Word of God throughout the entire Bible as a false teaching. And when a man considers "EVERY" Word Jesus used to describe the mainstream preachers of HIS Time, and the commandments, traditions and philosophies they taught for doctrines, it is clear that the Pharisees were NOT "adherents to the laws listed in the Pentateuch (Genesis through Deuteronomy)", while Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, and the Lord's Christ Himself, were. If a person is not willing to accept this undeniable Biblical truth, then there is no reason to continue.

I do not accept that statement, and I agree that we have a wide enough disagreement that there is probably no reason to continue.

If you observe the Sabbath, I hope it is a holy day of rest for you. If you do not observe the Sabbath, then I hope you find other devotional practices that bring you close to God. Blessings and peace to you.

HARK! · Friday at 10:26 PM

Hentenza said:
All pertaining Israel not the church.

Israel is the assembly (church)

Origin and history of church

church(n.)

Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice, circe "place of assemblage set aside for Christian worship; the body of Christian believers, Christians collectively; ecclesiastical authority or power," from Proto-Germanic *kirika (source also of Old Saxon kirika, Old Norse kirkja, Old Frisian zerke, Middle Dutch kerke, Dutch kerk, Old High German kirihha, German Kirche).
This is probably [see extensive note in OED] borrowed via an unrecorded Gothic word from Greek kyriakē (oikia), kyriakon doma "the Lord's (house)," from kyrios "ruler, lord" (from PIE root *keue- "to swell," also forming words for "strong, powerful").
Greek kyriakon (adj.) "of the Lord" had been used in reference to houses of Christian worship since c. 300, especially in the East, though it was less common in this sense than ekklesia or basilikē. An example of the direct Greek-to-Germanic transmission of many Christian words, via the Goths; probably it was used by West Germanic people in their pre-Christian period.

Church - Etymology, Origin & Meaning

Originating from Middle English and Old English cirice, meaning a place for Christian worship or believers, the verb form means to bring or lead to church.

www.etymonline.com

In Greek mythology, Circe (/ˈsərsiː/;[1] Ancient Greek: Κίρκη, romanized: Kírkē, pronounced [kírkɛː]) is an enchantress, sometimes considered a goddess or a nymph.[2] In most accounts, Circe is described as the daughter of the sun god Helios and the Oceanid Perse. Circe was renowned for her vast knowledge of potions and herbs. Through the use of these and a magic wand or staff, she would transform her enemies, or those who offended her, into animal

Circe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.

The renewed covenant is with Israel.

We've covered this ad nauseam.

Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?