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SNAP benefits ( gentally)

Tropical Wilds

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Agreed. We want to help the needy, not enable the greedy.
… Said the person begrudging paying $323 in taxes a year because it means he’s not able to compete in material goods enjoyed by others and doesn’t eat nicely enough and he wants more for himself, without a hint understanding the irony…
 
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Tropical Wilds

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"Address only the content of the post and not the poster."
Which would be why I asked if you thought about what you posted, dear, which is addressing the content of the post.

But thanks for letting me know I’ve bested your arguments. Past experience has shown when your posts shift from answering what was asked of you or for you to defend your position to you complaining cut-and-pasting the forum rules and applying them incorrectly, you’re out of valid arguments but would rather not think about it.
 
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Freth

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Imagine you’re a kid at school and it's lunchtime. Your friends are all eating cookies and doughnuts that their mom packed in their lunch. Meanwhile, you’re stuck with carrot sticks and apple slices because your mom can't buy treats with SNAP. How would you feel in that situation? Would it make you feel sad? Humiliated? Denying low-income families the ability to buy junk food with SNAP goes beyond looking at only the health benefits of doing so.

As a young boy I did notice other kids at school who had the latest snacks that we couldn't afford. I grew up poor, but mom always made sure we had a snack in with our lunches. Sometimes it was an apple, sometimes it was a Little Debbie snack, if we could afford them. (At home we didn't eat snacks. We had a dessert or treat on rare occasion. If anything, the snack in the lunch was a treat.)

The same thing happened with clothes. I was wearing bell bottoms long after they were out of style and being laughed at, because mom went to Goodwill to get our clothes. I was wearing second hand clothes and cheap no-name plastic soled shoes that were so uncomfortable. Other kids were wearing the latest fashion items like parachute pants and high top shoes.

I would play at my friends' houses and they would have the latest video games (Atari at the time), and full Star Wars collections. I had none of that. The things others had were just things. I had things too, they just weren't the latest and greatest.

I appreciated what I had, and it instilled values that I would've otherwise lacked, like humility and meekness. I learned how to save money and eat right. The knowledge that I learned as a boy is knowledge I am still applying today in my adult life. If I hadn't had the hardships and lessons, I may well have grown up to be a different person entirely, and I don't think I would've liked that person.

Carrot sticks and apple slices are good for you. Cookies and doughnuts are not. There is no redeeming value in feeding your kids junk food in their school lunches.
 
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rambot

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Oompa Loompa

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So if you wanted a better car, it sounds like you married poorly.

Instead of blaming Snap holders for your bad car, blame yourself for not marrying better, or for having a wife who can’t keep you in the lifestyle you feel you deserve. Saying some people you believe deserve less than you drive nicer cars than you do and it hurts your feelings is weird, especially when if you worked harder or married better you’d solve your problem, just as you claim would solve Snap recipients problems.
Considering welfare recipients are disproportionately single women, perhaps, according to your logic, the fault is theirs because men want nothing to do with them and their kids.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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But thanks for letting me know I’ve bested your arguments.
I had to go through the thread to find which of my arguments you claimed to have "bested" and I am having difficulty. Listen, although you may find my positions and opinions to be abhorrent, but I like to think I have been nothing but respectful towards you. I ask that you do the same. So please tone down the sarcastic mockery and inflammatory comments.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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with the whole mess with SNAP benefits should there be anything food wise that cannot be purchased? How strict should it be?
Anything that’s not edible or is a drug like alcohol should be excluded. The rest is up to the individual what they wish to use their SNAP money for. If they want to feed their kids nothing but cookies and soda, that’s on them. Not my business to tell someone else how to buy for their household.
 
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JosephZ

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Just because 44% of SNAP recipients work doeant mean they should be getting snap.
There are strict guidlines in place that determine who qualifies for SNAP. If someone is receiving SNAP, it means they have met those guidlines.

No we have GREATLY increased the number of people on snap by artificial means and not because they really need it.
These are the people who receive SNAP:

In FY 2023, four in five (79%) SNAP households included either a child (39%), an elderly individual (20%), or a nonelderly individual with a disability (10). These households contained 88% of all SNAP participants and received 83% of all SNAP benefits.

Most SNAP benefits go to the poorest households.

  • Most SNAP households lived in poverty. Seventy-three percent had a gross monthly income at or below 100% of the poverty level.
  • Eighty-six percent of all SNAP benefits go to households with gross monthly income at or below the poverty level and 51% of benefits go to those with gross monthly income at or below 50% of the poverty level.
  • The average SNAP household received a monthly benefit of $332. That’s $177 per person based on the average SNAP household size of 1.9 people.
  • Households with children received a larger average monthly benefit of $574 due to the larger average household size of 3.3 people. The average benefit per person for these households was $174.


Households that have income and/or assets have to meet the following requirements:

Gross monthly income — that is, household income before any of the program’s deductions are applied — generally must be at or below 130 percent of the poverty line. For a family of three, the poverty line used to calculate SNAP benefits in federal fiscal year 2026 is $2,221 a month. Thus, 130 percent of the poverty line for a three-person family is $2,888 a month, or about $34,656 a year. The poverty level is higher for bigger families and lower for smaller families.

Net income, or household income after deductions are applied, must be at or below the poverty line.

Assets must fall below certain limits: households without a member who is aged 60 or older or has a disability must have assets of $3,000 or less; households with such a member must have assets of $4,500 or less.



I'm going to take the example of a family of three whose parent(s) work and have an income of $34,656 a year and then deduct expenses based on what the averages are in my area.

$2,888 per month Income.

$1,200 rent (Two bedroom home or apartment)
$ 689 Tax witholdings ($346 federal @ a 12% tax rate, $220 FICA, $123 State)
$ 150 Household expenses (Car maintenance, cleaning products, toiletries, clothing, school supplies, etc.)
$ 133 Electric
$ 88 Gas for home heating and cooking
$ 80 Gas for car
$ 81 Water/Sewer/Trash
$ 60 Phone
$ 58 Car insurance (One car, liability only with no points on driving record)
$ 30 Basic internet

$2,569 Total monthly expenses

This leaves $319 a month for food if everything runs smoothly for this family; meaning no emergencies, appliance/car breakdowns, etc.

$319 a month comes to just $10.63 a day for this family of three to eat on. That is less than half of what is needed to have a basic nutritious diet according to the USDA Thrifty Food Plan which would require more than $700 a month.

Around 72% of eligible working-poor households receive SNAP benefits, so when you hear that 42 million people in the US receive SNAP, the actual number would be even higher if everyone eligible to receive them would apply for benefits.

As for the number of people receiving SNAP increasing, the numbers were higher between 2011 and 2017 than they are today. 2013 was the year with the highest number of people receiving SNAP, when an average of 47.6 million people received benefits every month.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Anything that’s not edible or is a drug like alcohol should be excluded. The rest is up to the individual what they wish to use their SNAP money for. If they want to feed their kids nothing but cookies and soda, that’s on them. Not my business to tell someone else how to buy for their household.
what about the fact that the N in SNAP says otherwise? It was not meant to help people buy junk food.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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what about the fact that the N in SNAP says otherwise? It was not meant to help people buy junk food.
I don’t care. Worry about what you buy for your household. Don’t worry about what I buy for mine. Why is it any of your business what I buy for groceries?
 
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dogs4thewin

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There are strict guidlines in place that determine who qualifies for SNAP. If someone is receiving SNAP, it means they have met those guidlines.


These are the people who receive SNAP:

In FY 2023, four in five (79%) SNAP households included either a child (39%), an elderly individual (20%), or a nonelderly individual with a disability (10). These households contained 88% of all SNAP participants and received 83% of all SNAP benefits.

Most SNAP benefits go to the poorest households.

  • Most SNAP households lived in poverty. Seventy-three percent had a gross monthly income at or below 100% of the poverty level.
  • Eighty-six percent of all SNAP benefits go to households with gross monthly income at or below the poverty level and 51% of benefits go to those with gross monthly income at or below 50% of the poverty level.
  • The average SNAP household received a monthly benefit of $332. That’s $177 per person based on the average SNAP household size of 1.9 people.
  • Households with children received a larger average monthly benefit of $574 due to the larger average household size of 3.3 people. The average benefit per person for these households was $174.


Households that have income and/or assets have to meet the following requirements:

Gross monthly income — that is, household income before any of the program’s deductions are applied — generally must be at or below 130 percent of the poverty line. For a family of three, the poverty line used to calculate SNAP benefits in federal fiscal year 2026 is $2,221 a month. Thus, 130 percent of the poverty line for a three-person family is $2,888 a month, or about $34,656 a year. The poverty level is higher for bigger families and lower for smaller families.

Net income, or household income after deductions are applied, must be at or below the poverty line.

Assets must fall below certain limits: households without a member who is aged 60 or older or has a disability must have assets of $3,000 or less; households with such a member must have assets of $4,500 or less.



I'm going to take the example of a family of three whose parent(s) work and have an income of $34,656 a year and then deduct expenses based on what the averages are in my area.

$2,888 per month Income.

$1,200 rent (Two bedroom home or apartment)
$ 689 Tax witholdings ($346 federal @ a 12% tax rate, $220 FICA, $123 State)
$ 150 Household expenses (Car maintenance, cleaning products, toiletries, clothing, school supplies, etc.)
$ 133 Electric
$ 88 Gas for home heating and cooking
$ 80 Gas for car
$ 81 Water/Sewer/Trash
$ 60 Phone
$ 58 Car insurance (One car, liability only with no points on driving record)
$ 30 Basic internet

$2,569 Total monthly expenses

This leaves $319 a month for food if everything runs smoothly for this family; meaning no emergencies, appliance/car breakdowns, etc.

$319 a month comes to just $10.63 a day for this family of three to eat on. That is less than half of what is needed to have a basic nutritious diet according to the USDA Thrifty Food Plan which would require more than $700 a month.

Around 72% of eligible working-poor households receive SNAP benefits, so when you hear that 42 million people in the US receive SNAP, the actual number would be even higher if everyone eligible to receive them would apply for benefits.

As for the number of people receiving SNAP increasing, the numbers were higher between 2011 and 2017 than they are today. 2013 was the year with the highest number of people receiving SNAP, when an average of 47.6 million people received benefits every month.
It depends on what that family gets. There are sales and things like in season produce that would be cheaper Now, I do realize that some people have diet restrictions unrelated to being picky. I know someone for example who has celiac not being able to have any gluten at all is FAR from cheap.
 
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JosephZ

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It depends on what that family gets. There are sales and things like in season produce that would be cheaper Now, I do realize that some people have diet restrictions unrelated to being picky. I know someone for example who has celiac not being able to have any gluten at all is FAR from cheap.
How much on average do you spend on food per day for yourself?
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Considering welfare recipients are disproportionately single women, perhaps, according to your logic, the fault is theirs because men want nothing to do with them and their kids.
Yes, yes, women bad, yadda yadda yadda. You can't fire me, I quit. Heard it before, your insistence at making sure we all remember how you feel about women is duly noted.

What I want to point out, though, is the fun little lore drop you gave us this little... Whatever you call campaign of yours... just bestowed on us.

You pay taxes, 2.5% of your taxes fund Snap, but that dollar is still yours and it's up to you to command how the dollar you no longer have is spent by somebody else.

A woman leaves you, and the suddenly the kids are now are now "their kids." Not "your kids." Not "our kids." "Their kids."

You know what they say... "A daughter is your daughter all of her life, a son is a son until he gets a wife, but every dollar I spend I get to control for life."

Something like that.

I had to go through the thread to find which of my arguments you claimed to have "bested" and I am having difficulty. Listen, although you may find my positions and opinions to be abhorrent, but I like to think I have been nothing but respectful towards you. I ask that you do the same. So please tone down the sarcastic mockery and inflammatory comments.
Man, I got you good today, apparently, lol.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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what about the fact that the N in SNAP says otherwise? It was not meant to help people buy junk food.

nutrition​

noun

nu·tri·tion nu̇-ˈtri-shən nyu̇-

1
: the act or process of nourishing or being nourished
specifically : the sum of the processes by which an animal or plant takes in and utilizes food substances

----

Where in there does it specify "but not junk food." Sounds like you think "nutrition" automatically means "healthy" when "nutrition" actually just means to not starve. "Nutrition" is neutral, not healthy or unhealthy. It's just referring to the process of getting calories.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Yes, yes, women bad, yadda yadda yadda. You can't fire me, I quit. Heard it before, your insistence at making sure we all remember how you feel about women is duly noted.

What I want to point out, though, is the fun little lore drop you gave us this little... Whatever you call campaign of yours... just bestowed on us.

You pay taxes, 2.5% of your taxes fund Snap, but that dollar is still yours and it's up to you to command how the dollar you no longer have is spent by somebody else.

A woman leaves you, and the suddenly the kids are now are now "their kids." Not "your kids." Not "our kids." "Their kids."

You know what they say... "A daughter is your daughter all of her life, a son is a son until he gets a wife, but every dollar I spend I get to control for life."

Something like that.
What on earth are you talking about?
Man, I got you good today, apparently, lol.
Whatever you got, it sure was neither a point nor a coherent argument. But I give you credit, you sure showed those strawmen who's the boss. But when you actually want to address any of my actual positions, I will be waiting. Congratulations on your victory over whatever it was you were arguing with.
 
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linux.poet

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Or he's just more ethical and doesn't feel its right to live off his neighbors. Unlike far too many poor people who have been incentivized to stay living off their neighbors instead of bettering themselves.
How about poor people who help each other? Where is that in your ethical framework?

Maybe it will help you to understand how me and my friends are going to survive this mess. I’m just going to preserve what little I have left on my EBT from last month to shop at Costco, and use a gift card I got from a church for my Walmart purchases for the month. This will mean that a purchase of a new sewing machine will need to be further postponed. I’m going to make lemon scones this week using some existing flour and other ingredients my parents bought a long time ago that are still around the house. This, even though I am working 6 hour shifts at the grocery store this week. The scones cost $4 to me for a large batch as opposed to buying whole-grain wafer bars at $17 for a pack, because I need to buy the lemons and the half and half to go with our existing reserves of flour and butter, etc.

Then me and my friends will take turns driving the entire group down to the local Catholic charity because we get gas cards for each individual vehicle from them and it is a 20 mile drive. We will get free breakfast and a sack lunch from them, which we will all break up and pass around to deal with various preferences and allergies. We will also look for fruit in their bins out back, which is more lemons for me, and oranges and apples for them.

Even with this, and a service that gives them food at a local church every Thursday and Saturday, there will be days where they don’t get enough food. This will get worse as time goes on. What happens when we run out of cars to drive them down to the Catholics? At least we have a church to feed them Thanksgiving dinner, but yeah. It’s going to be a very lean Christmas.

These are Christians and U.S. Citizens. One of them is even a combat veteran who moves storage units on behalf of people and does hours of landscaping on behalf of elderly folk for less than minimum wage. I helped him do just that for a long time. How much suffering does one want? Another of my friends is on a walker and we had to help her find medical care for her leg. We’re all just living off our neighbors. Never mind the the fact that elderly walker lady is helping Combat Vet Guy get a job, and never mind the fact that all the work I did with Combat Vet Guy helped me get my current job at the grocery store. I don’t think that is immoral.

To be honest, this whole discussion leaves me bitter and sad. Never mind the fact that I fought my way through college, fighting emotional abuse the whole way, so I could use my writing talents for God’s glory and honor, which is what left me in a terrible job position to begin with. Never mind the fact that I’m starting a job at the Post Office in a couple weeks that will probably put me off of SNAP for good and pay for my theology masters’s degree to finish my journey. Maybe that last line will finally put some pause on the shaming and mockery that has been programmed into people’s heads. I doubt it.

It was never about being unwilling to work, it’s that work for Kingdom purposes does not always neatly align with what the government wants in their slave labor system. Judging people by that system is the error that needs corrected. And besides that, I was suffering from mental illness down to the point where I wasn’t functional from like 2012-2022 anyway. I did what little I could, 3 college classes a semester while being yelled at when my dad came home from work and sometimes even in the middle of the night when I was doing homework. I didn’t want to give up on college. I have my bachelors degree now because I didn’t give up. But yeah, not a good enough slave for everyone else’s approval.
Another reason it’s disallowed as it’s meant to feed yourself repeatedly, not friends who aren’t on Snap.
Given that all my friends are on SNAP/RMP and we paid cash for the chicken, no crimes were committed. I’m fully aware that I’m not allowed to buy food for other people using my SNAP card who aren’t in my household, it’s a federal crime and you get your benefits cut off.

Technically one can argue that’s another injustice because if I have a safe place to prepare food and economization strategies(true), I can stretch my food benefit a lot further than my friends can, so if I have $80 left on my EBT card and my friends have $0, I should be able to just take said friends to the store and buy them food.

Never mind the fact that if SNAP/RMP covered the chicken, they would just buy it themselves for their own eating: the policy of excluding it from SNAP is what is causing the communal eating creativity since we have to pool cash among ourselves to afford it.
They’re not paid enough to count olives so they don’t care if you take them despite not being a customer.
I bought the olives and vitamin water using my SNAP benefits. They are in normal stacks on the sales floor.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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What on earth are you talking about?
I wasn't being unclear.
Whatever you got, it sure was neither a point nor a coherent argument. But I give you credit, you sure showed those strawmen who's the boss. But when you actually want to address any of my actual positions, I will be waiting. Congratulations on your victory over whatever it was you were arguing with.
Thank you. It wasn't a hard victory, but a victory is a victory.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Given that all my friends are on SNAP/RMP and we paid cash for the chicken, no crimes were committed. I’m fully aware that I’m not allowed to buy food for other people using my SNAP card who aren’t in my household, it’s a federal crime and you get your benefits cut off.
I know you paid cash, you explained the chicken wasn't covered. I'm not saying I agree with the thought process that denies you the chicken, just explaining what it is. Zero part of my mind, body, and soul feels it's my business to tell people how to eat. As long somebody isn't being exploited into using their benefits to feed somebody else, I couldn't care less how one spends the money. I cannot overstate how little interest I have in micromanaging people's eating habits.

Technically one can argue that’s another injustice because if I have a safe place to prepare food and economization strategies(true), I can stretch my food benefit a lot further than my friends can, so if I have $80 left on my EBT card and my friends have $0, I should be able to just take said friends to the store and buy them food.
That gets a little dicier for me because I want to make sure people aren't being exploited or manipulated into spending their money to their own detriment via things like elder abuse or neglect. Groups that are marginalized tend to be preyed upon and if it became easy to trade those benefits, the same people who believe the tax man is coming so buy a gift card, call them back with the number, and you'll avoid jail would find themselves stuck. Without food and potentially ejected from the system for "allowing" a fraud to occur. That I'm not into.

Never mind the fact that if SNAP/RMP covered the chicken, they would just buy it themselves for their own eating: the policy of excluding it from SNAP is what is causing the communal eating creativity since we have to pool cash among ourselves to afford it.
Again, I think it should be covered. You won't hear me say otherwise. I'm fine with any prepared, warm grocery store-made prepared food being EBT eligible.

I bought the olives and vitamin water using my SNAP benefits. They are in normal stacks on the sales floor.
Gotcha. I thought you meant you were given it by employees or they were available for free on condiment bars. I used to run a loop, snagging unattended free condiments from condiment bars order to save some money. The golden years was when KFC left butter packets out, Dunkin left mini-creamers out, Taco Bell left salsa packets out, and Wendy's left sour cream packets, shredded cheese, and occasionally "bacon" (for baked potatoes) out on their condiment bars by the door. You could walk in, load up, and call it a day. Del Taco used to have lettuce and tomato out to dress the tacos and nachos. McDonalds was always a bust because their condiments were in pump jars.
 
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